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Hi Truro, Fox's lawyers are more confident than me. I doubt they know as much as me about what has happened to this company though - I met Chris pre-IPO as far as remember as well as two sets of brokers, followed for years, it was I that found out about the fake website for Eboracum and Jigsaw Leisure and Scott Oldfield's past and was called a conspriacy theorist when I emailedTom W (I still have the screen shots show the fake website if the defence want to contact me :-) ). I found that Banyan Marble has no assets and have an email trail when Chris IMHO started evading my questions about them.
I assure you that the lawyers for the other side will try and argue that as Fox cannot make any money there are no losses. It will take them maybe two or three days to find out the very questionable past of some of this company's customers and "orders". Fox will IMHO be eaten alive in court when they asked to show paper evidence of the the tens of millions of orders made to date and why they were not fulfilled, they will be asked about the money Banyan and Eboracum paid, how they paid such sums when their submitted accounts do not show them (Eboracum's are free and Banyan's available for about 40 pounds), about the US alliance, about China, about India, about Dubai. I suspect Fox will be found wanting in all these cases. I do now know of course, maybe all these order are still active!!
Of couse from an investment point of view this is history, but from a litigation point of view I suspect that it will be enough to show Fox to be an unreliable company and the case will be thrown out as spurious.
They do, Truro
I quote from "The Guide to Damages in International Arbitration" Editor John A Trenor chapter 10 "Assessing Damages for Breach of Contract"
"
Your losses are likely to include one or more of the following:
• Loss of profits:...
• Wasted costs:...
• Loss of opportunity
...
In cases of lost opportunity, the claimant needs to demonstrate that the opportunity
existed
...
Future losses tend to be more problematic to assess than past losses. A forecast of profits
and cash flows over a 20-year contract term into the future is inevitably more speculative than an assessment of losses already incurred. However, this does not mean that the
claimant’s situation is hopeless.
...
As a general rule, the more evidence there is of the ability to generate future cash flows
and profits, the lower the chance of a claim being dismissed as speculative.
...
In some circumstances, the expert should consider whether profits have been lost at all,
notwithstanding the court or tribunal’s finding of contractual breach.
...
[and]
... The issue then [also] becomes one of compensation for delay to, rather than absolute loss of, profits.
"
etc etc
Well worth a read if you are investing here because of this.
I'll try again Truro
1. In contract law you generally only get damages if you have lost something.
2. You don't get damages for just breaking a contract, unless the contract specifically says that
3. You don't get damages just because the other side has broken the law
4. You have to clearly demonstrate you have lost something. Normally it is capital that you lose.
5. If you are saying you lave lost future profits then you will have to demonstrate that profits would have been made
6. If you cannot demonstrate that profits would have been made then you cannot demonstrate you have lost anything
7. Even if profits have been made the court would discount future profits very heavily
8. By way of example I had a case where I could demonstrate I would have made 12% a year on an investment because I had made 12% a year on a very similar one. My lawyer told me that the court would discount that to around 3% and only for a limited number of years. We settled out of court.
9. The other side in this case can easily demonstrate that Fox cannot make any money. They will I suspect also argue that they cannot run a business effectively, having announced millions and millions in orders that came to nothing which might indicate that they either cannot produce or customers have no faith in them and cancel orders. They might well also to try demonstrate that Banyan and Eboracum where sham companies designed to give a misleading impression on orders (not saying they are!). They will ask for full disclosure on these "orders". They will see what Scott Oldfield does (former Bar Manager) and see all his other failed companies, they'll show the accounts to the court with assets of £1 and they'll demonstrate that Chris knew him before the order was placed. They may try and do the same with the Chinese connection. Even if that is not "true beyond any reasonable doubt" it will raise massive doubts regarding the veracity of the company's announcements. If I was defending a 195 million claim I'd do a google search and I'd come across this BB and ADVFN and loads of other comment on the company. I'd be very happing defending the claim against the Kosovans.
GLTA
Fox are most likely seeking compensation damages for loss of future profits and possibly also for increased costs due to the intransigence and illegalities of the government. it is very rare in commercial litigation to be awarded punitive damages just because somebody has done something wrong. I think this is a pretty well established part of contract law and I will be very surprised if it didn't also apply in international arbitration.
You're beginning to sound like Chris unvrkw!!
Put simply the Fox litgation claim is for lost profits, they dont have any profits and have not demonstrated that they can make money, hence there is no loss. Case dismissed (IMHO). " The basis of the claim for damages is the investment made to date in the Malesheva quarry, loss of future revenues associated with the site and future investment plans in Kosovo".
on the investment made to date - their other investments have proven worthless given the need to continually recapitalise the company
on lss of future revenues - ditto
on future investment plans - ditto
It's simple. They can't flog enough of the stuff.
They've announded tens of millions of "orders" that haven't gone anywhere. They keep on announcing them. I suspect no one believes them anymore.
They can't pay their debts.
Neither distribution partner has a website. One doesn't actually exist, as a matter of demonstrable fact. The Indian partner has a gmail address! IMHO tehy will be torn apart in court because it's clear they don't have anything like the capacity they say.
"Block order book from existing customers for the year ended 31 December 2019 of around €3 million" - actual was 1.4
How can they get away with announcing orders year after year after year after year that don't materialise?
https://www.foxmarble.net/contact-us
Under distribution partnersa
Good luck
Eboracum
82 St. John Street
London,
EC1M 4JN
UK
info@eboracum.co.uk
Phone: +44 (0) 7510 125 593
Still listed on the website as UK distribution partner! Dissolved last Dec with £1 in assets, for failing to submit accounts.
Yes a few years ago they thought they could sell internationally. Now China is fading and they are selling mostly block locally. One of the longest train wrecks I have ever followed.
You state "It would be an extremely dodgy line if they actively released rns statements saying something intentional and completely false"
It would indeed....
(Eboracum now dissolved BTW. Banyan Stone was set up by an acquaintance of Chris's specifically to place that order and sell Fox's marble - have you seen thier accounts and what can you conclude about the sellability of their product from their financial statements?)
Dream on....dreams are all that's left IMHO
You can do whatever you like, ukvrkw! Good luck. The only harm is claming that other people are "deramping" and "trying to buy in at lower prices" or generally being annoying on purpose, because opther people might invest and lose money too. But as you haven't done that, post away!
It's a disaster. Why won't you face up to it?
"Inter Stone L.L.C. has improved its quality into America’s and Europe’s standarts."
Enough said......
Tom Winnifrith IMHO is going to look something of a fool for backing this and ignoring all the warning signs.
Eboracum under active notice to strike off...again. How man "orders" have been announced that came to nothing. Is Chris not accountable for this??
Google Don Nicolson Scottish Resources Group - He was CEO in 2011 and then left. According to Companies House Scottish Resources Group was dissolved in 2014. I'm sure he's good but there's got to be a good business underneath.
... was around at Levantina as it was effectively going bust and when the capital was wiped out and it was refinanced by a debt management specialist. Interesting. Google levantina bybrook capital
Loan notes are exercisable at much higher prices - so anyone converting is in for an immediate loss.
Of course Fox could change the convertible price?
Personally I see this going similar way as e.g. Oxus: cease operations but still fighting for 194m, suspension pending financial position, delisting and then a long slow death
On the other hand I thought they would be running out on money by around now, so maybe they have made some sales and are limping along - an RNS stating cash balance would be useful (why hasn't Chris done that?)? Remember it is illegal as a director to trade whilst insolvent (paying debts as they become due) so Fox must have some money left??
"Yes, we see a lot of activity on the various bulletin boards, most of it factually inaccurate."
Ok Chris then come on and tell us about Eboracum, Zhong, Banyan. About companies set up days before placing "orders" for millions. Which never materialised of course. About Eboracum's deposit announced as an RNS yet that was a company with a few pounds on its balance sheet. Same for Banyan. About how for about 5 years running "orders" of 3M were about 1/3 of that. Was that all factually inaccurate?
I would love for Chris to quash all this "factually innacurate" stuff.