Member Info for Nanonano

Some of the companies mentioned in the BOM make parts that are assemblies of components from various sources. The actual sensor is a small but critical part of that assembly. Just like every IC, resistor and capacitor isn't listed in that BOM, so it's likely to be the case for the IR sensors.

If Apple aren't using QD enhanced CMOS for the infrared, what do you suppose they're actually using?

Quantum dot enhanced SWIR IR works rather differently to InGaAs sensors. QD sensors absorb a very specific narrow band of infrared in a carefully preselected frequency, whereas inGaAs sensors tend to operate over a broader spectrum and with higher efficiency.

Industry and military uses are prepared to pay the eye watering costs for inGaAs sensors in order to get lower noise and greater bandwidth, but for consumer devices, the price is just too high.

The companies operating with QD sensors at present have a very small market share, and I expect we will see them disappear or switch to alternative markets once these new sensors hit the market.

Jonathan Steckel has stated that the next generation of materials for SWIR/NIR infrared currently still in the lab will exceed the performance of InGaAs items, although that is probably still within a tight range of frequencies.

I believe they've only taken on about eight staff with the expected production in mind. By Nanoco's own account QD production is not labour intensive, and I expect much of the process is automated.

When the Apple contract went south back in 2019, the company was in a very different place to where it is now. It had little cash, only one company with one potential product, plus it was physically larger with a much higher headcount than today, and operating two independent facilities. There was a real risk the company could have gone insolvent back then.

Today, plenty of cash, a much leaner operation, and several materials and customers engaged. Totally different.

I take most of these articles with a large pinch of salt. Most of them are written by those who are far from objective or shilling for a competitor.

I view guidance as something along the lines of "we expect an order for materials of 'x' amount at 'y' date". Anything else is just speculative.

Could isn't would though. That's a generic example it's not a specific order quantity. Probably basing it on Quest sales figures, I believe they're in that range. If you believe the CEO when he says they don't know what the end product is, then they couldn't possibly give accurate figures, just a best guess.

It won't be priced in, because it isn't visible. It's unfortunate that there have been delays further up the supply chain, as I believe we would have seen a contract by now had that not occurred, but better late than never.

I don't recall BT giving quantities of orders, just a few generic examples of niche to mainstream products.

Noone outside of the companies know, and they're keeping a very tight lid on things.

There were other articles where lower numbers were mentioned.

The micro OLED on silicone seem to be the bottleneck, however these numbers are not cast in stone. I expect Apple and the companies involved will be burning the midnight oil to overcome production gremlins, and will very likely announce nearer the release date that they can supply at a higher rate.

Three weeks ago.

https://www.laptopmag.com/news/apple-vision-pro-report-suggests-limited-production-but-will-it-matter

That's old news. However I think initial quantities aren't of huge concern, because technical issues will be overcome.

What is important is that a product is using Nanoco IP and that it's for a $3Tn company. Naturally we don't know that for sure, yet.

In addition with generative AI, lots of these type of sensors are going to be required in all sorts of products, so I think we can expect to see them in phones, tablets and watches etc. Just a matter of when, not if.

In 2017 the company was still in discussion with Samsung, probably for second line supply.

Also there were various companies sampling the material who ultimately used cadmium dots from competitors. Investors have never been informed why this was, perhaps the company itself doesn't know the full reasons and can only speculate. We do know that some companies were happy enough to display early models at Touch Taiwan, but production models used different dots from a different supplier e.g. Nanosys, Nanging/NNcrystal etc.

In addition, the display market in QD's has not scaled in the way independent analysts predicted. They originally envisaged 50% of the display market (circa 100m displays per annum)to be QD based within a few years of the first examples appearing on the market when the reality proved to be about 12-15million with about 10-15% of that cadmium based.

I broadly agree with that.

I think comms did improve under BT compared with ME, who routinely gave grossly over-optimistic forward looking statements, and never gave any forum for PI's questions at meetings.

However the CEO dropped the ball rubber stamping the Edison and Turner-Pope estimates and it's come back to haunt him, as the markets view him as the boy that cried wolf.

Only a contract, and it needs to be a good one, will turn this around.

From what I've read in the media, it seems clear that the Apple Vision Pro was due for an earlier release, but had to be kicked down the road a few quarters whilst remaining technical hurdles were overcome. Even still I think many in Apple would have preferred to release a little later, but perhaps they had their hand forced and were finding it harder to keep leaked information creeping out.

If the earlier release had occurred then I believe we would have details of a contract by now, but as it so happens it'll be later this year.

I'm convinced this will be the first product to use the QD sensors, but until we get confirmation it remains speculation.

I won't be able to attend the meeting I'm afraid.

I believe the resolutions are to permit the company to distribute funds, either through a special dividend or some other instrument like a share buyback to shareholders, which at present they are unable to so do.

Well every Samsung TV with QD's- they make quite a few without.

Remove the fullstop after "pdf" on the link.

Https://displaydaily.com/nanosys-wants-to-get-the-lead-out-of-the-display-industry/

Https://physicsworld.com/a/lined-up-quantum-dots-become-highly-conductive/

Also, current materials are lead based, and I think that may also be a factor for some OEM's. They may tolerate it in a niche product that sells perhaps a few hundred thousand, but for something that sells in hundreds of millions?

I think I covered this before. In phones I reckon the main requirement for enhanced IR sensors will be under display Face ID operating in SWIR, which is exceedingly unlikely to roll out before 2025.

I’m very happy to be proved wrong, but to date i’ve not seen any evidence to support a different conclusion, beyond a ‘hoped for’ wish list.