George Frangeskides, Chairman at ALBA, explains why the Pilbara Lithium option ‘was too good to miss’. Watch the video here.
Fair comments Tornado,
Unfortunately there is something still not right, the share price is a joke if the claimed potential of the company is true , likely one overriding factor is the loss of confidence, Centamin still hasn't shaken off the ghosts of it's past.
I'm bored with slick fast talking presentations going over much of what has already been said before, ,what's needed now is some proof of reliable guidance, reduced AISC and before too long the reinstatement of a decent dividend. deliverable.
I hope I am wrong, but I am expecting not a lot!
Mr Henderson,
I have written to those making the accusations and if they supply the proof then I shall forward it on the appropriate authorities for them to deal with .
I see no point in contacting Centamin as I have no faith they will take it seriously.
Shame but despite being a sizeable shareholder for over a decade I think there is some truth in Rebess's opinion Centamin is far too cosy with the Eygptian Mobb
Tibbs
Steve, credit where credit's due you are very adept at claiming to be so astute at trading , but if this were so then why mess about on a message board.
I think most of your posts are just wishful thinking in an attempt be a big fish in a very little pond.
If you aren't interested Mr Bond then why bother with replying ?
Kees Dekker's concerns over the state of Sukari in 2015 of 2018 despite Pardey trying to deny then and the BOD denying any knowledge of what was going on at Sukari have been proven to be correct in every case, the collapse of the share price and the loss of market confidence not to forget the halving of the dividend and the depletion of the company cash reserves are all the testament to the fact that shareholders were deliberately misinformed.
Come on Mr Bond you should be honest why you always leap to defend Centamin.
Feasibility studies are just that.
A feasibility study will typically include estimating the size and quality of the ore body, producing geotechnical information, researching metallurgic or mineral processing information, as well as researching similar projects, waste disposal, environmental factors, and potential risks!
There are no certainties, companies are quick to point this out after investors money has been flushed down the lavatory pan!
So far Centamin"s feasibility studies so far really haven't proven to be that reliable not only in Sukari but elsewhere where they have proven t be as much us as a chocolate teapot!
Fair question why didn't I get out in 2015?
Well several reasons , I didn't know that much about Kees Dekker a freelance analyst at that time, so I thought I should be able to trust in the integrity of Andrew Pardey a very senior member a of the Centamin BOD to carry out his duties with due diligence in the best interests of the shareholders.
Andrew Pardey claimed that all was basically well at the mine, but that these things happen in mining and that lessons had been learnt and changes made.
I realise now that i was foolish to give Andrew Pardey the benefit of the doubt and that far from being learnt if be known things had had carried on in the same old way, although to be fair things did seem to pick up until in 2018 hitting the unexpected poor grades in the open pit and this was made worse by the underground operation coming to a standstill due to the near self destruction of the sole LHDR without having the right spare parts available!
Yet again Pardey claimed these things happen mining, it was Barminco's fault , they were trying to save money by not having essential spare parts on site, it wont happen again!
If you recall even you Mr Bond and others with past experience of Sukai all agreed that these unpredictable things happen and so once again I chose to believe those that should be acting in my best interests and other shareholders who claim to have some knowledge of the mining industry
Then woulnt you know it https://www.sharesmagazine.co.uk/news/shares/centamin-plunges-as-production-hit-by-mine-trouble
oops, a cut and paste, still never mind!
So now I have no confidence that Centamin management are telling us the whole story or that Doropo is worth bothering with! Tibbs
To be honest Europe and America should be doing a great more to support Ukraine,
The situation in Niger is a case out of the frying pan into the fire , the danger of inviting in Wagner group who after all are in the main just mercenaries recruited from prisons and the criminal mafia who don't abide by any of the established international rules to prop up unstable, corrupt and week governments is that Wagner once entrenched is impossible to control or get rid of.
https://tinyurl.com/mrxkjd9d
I agree knowing the costs is important, but considering all the unknown facts and risks how can th cost be realistically calculated.
The same goes for the claimed results and alleged potential of Doropo, can they be entirely relied upon, I very much doubt it considering the many unknown factors, Centamin got it so wrong in the past, nothing can be taken for granted now.
Hi Quark3,
The majority of posts on here where information is to be shared include cut and paste detail, not that I can recall ever seeing any of your posts that ever contribute anything other than vitriol towards any member that you tale a dislike to.
So from you comments it seems that that that you feel any information that members come across possibly even regarding some development or occurrence that may affect Centamin is to be completely rewritten by each contributor.
I have copied and pasted links to a cross section of sources sources including an information paper from a UK cross party parliamentary committee regarding the increased threats to doing business in the region.
You may or may not realise it but many long term shareholders are aware it's all too easy to spend many millions of dollars (including shareholders potential returns) on drilling lots of holes for the sake of it on reserves of questionable or mediocre potential in areas where apolitical regime change and unrest or insurrection are such that abandonment of these projects at great loss is the only option
On what information that is available so far Doropo doesn't amount to a "Dripping roast" and most likely will turn out to be another potential money pit rather than a profitable gold mine.
It time to take off the rose coloured spectacle and face facts that the likelihood of Doropo turning out to be little more than yet another a expensive promise of sometime down the road the good times coming is very likely!
Far better to concentrate in Eygpt for the time being, there are more than enough new arras to develop with far less risk!
Pointless rubbish may be your opinion, some may beg to differ from you considering past experiences the Droop resource isn't t anything special and if loaded with the extra African costs this may turn out to be another loss of many millions of dollars spent pointlessly after the company decides to pull out because the project no longer fits in with their core criteria
https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/centamin-seeks-buyers-for-burkina-faso-project-posts-lower-profit-2021-08-05
https://minesactu.info/en/2023/09/04/konkera-mine-centamin-mining-company-hands-over-its-batie-ouest-site-to-the-state/
In my experience there is an extra cost working in African countries. The productivity there is lower than elsewhere. In discussions with a director of SRK I told him that I do not subscribe to many unit mining cost estimates used for African countries in the economic assessment in technical reports. He confirmed to me that a SRK study had come up with an average unit rate of US$3.5/t mined for Africa. This includes drilling and blasting. I estimate for free dig material this should be some US$1/t lower.
About Batie, it is non-core in my mind because the very low grade makes it unattractive given the risks associated with a project in Africa and a political high-risk country at that.
Doropo is better, but still not fantastic.
No wonder they downgraded Batie.
kind regards,
Kees Dekker
Mining Analyst
Hi Dasut,
I appreciate that you had considerable experience in the field, but that said no matter how good the mining companies intentions or the quality of their contracted security companies from the information provided by multi national governmental agencies it is apparent that mining companies if they want to do business are being required to take sides by providing funding to one or other of the factions involved in these conflicts in the ongoing conflicts .
The Wagner Group has used infrastructure of the Russian Armed Forces. Evidence suggests that Wagner has been used as a proxy by the Russian government, allowing it to have plausible deniability for military operations abroad, and hiding the true casualties of Russia's foreign interventions.
https://www.ecofinagency.com/public-management/3005-44577-burkina-faso-mining-operators-should-not-support-any-armed-actions-me-bourgeois
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmfaff/167/report.html#heading-3
What should concern any Centamin shareholder is if Doropo is worth the investment considering the risks of it becoming unviable due to regional unrest and political corruption and instability .
Hi Dasut, no decent company with any morals or social conscience should have any involvement and certainly not employ private mercenaries to protect it whilst exploiting the countries people and its natural resources .
I doubt any private security company employed by a gold miner could stand up to to outfits like the Wagner Group they would just take what their are instructed to by their Moscow controllers .
Really can't see the Kremlin being at all interested in listening to Martin Horgan and his team on Investor Meet , you may recall how Putin kicked the BP CEO 's out under threat of imprisonment and tore up the contract.
May as well forget gold mining in West African region for the foreseeable future, nowhere is safe and its is getting worse!
"Gained access to natural resources on preferential terms, to the detriment of the national economy. In Sudan, Wagner-linked gold mining companies have benefited from generous concessions.144 The network appears to have a “chokehold” over Libya’s natural resources and export facilities; consequently, “Libyan oil output has drastically decreased”.145"
https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm5803/cmselect/cmfaff/167/report.html#heading-3
https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2022/4/28/white-hands-the-rise-of-private-militaries-in-african-conflict
Thank you for the reply Gino,
Thank you for that, but although the original Wagner leaders been eliminated by Putin the Wagner group is now rebranded the Africa Corps under the direct control of the Kremlin and part of the mission is to enable the Kremlin to have control of the regions natural resources, including gold mines.
https://issafrica.org/iss-today/russias-africa-corps-more-than-old-wine-in-a-new-bottle
https://theconversation.com/wagner-group-is-now-africa-corps-what-this-means-for-russias-operations-on-the-continent-223253
https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/02/07/africa-corps-wagner-group-russia-africa-burkina-faso/
Centamin would be very brave or stupid to develop here!
Thank you Gino,
If you are trying to infer that the area is fee from insurgency and merceries the you are very wrong and Wagner group has been rebranded https://theconversation.com/wagner-group-is-now-africa-corps-what-this-means-for-russias-operations-on-the-continent-223253
On Jan. 24, Russia’s Africa Corps published the first images of a deployment to Burkina Faso on its Telegram channel. “A Russian contingent of 100 people will ensure the safety of the country’s leader, Ibrahim Traoré, and the Burkinabe people from terrorist attacks,” read a statement posted with the images. “In t
https://foreignpolicy.com/2024/02/07/africa-corps-wagner-group-russia-africa-burkina-faso/
Wagner Group has been replaced by a new entity known as Russia’s Africa Corps across its key strongholds in the continent, its new leader has confirmed.
The infamous mercenary organization’s founders, Yevgeny Prigozhin and Dmitry Utkin, were killed in a plane crash in August 2023, two months after leading Wagner fighters in a march on Moscow to attempt a mutiny against the country’s defense forces.
Rebess, Considering the number of times shareholders were led up the garden path in the past i remain suspicious , but then the majority of mining companies seem tto take their shareholders for granted take their money and their trust and then fail to deliver time and time again , however that said somehow the CEO's and other senior management always seem to have exceeded some questionable and easily achievable criteria to qualify for free share and/or bonuses and perks for their performance despite in most instances failing to achieve anything other other than what they are paid for anyway!
Yet despite this some loyal share holders continue to defend the the very management who have failed them time and time again by making excuses for them such as Oh you don't understand , Oh that's mining or this sort of thing happens all the while in mining !
Well in my opinion that sort of thing shouldn't happen, that's why these CEO's and all the other directors are being paid such huge remuneration packages it's their job to deliver more than excuses!
What I say to all these mining company CEO's and senior managers is "Don't pi*s down my back and tell me it's rainin!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PpwJ1n7g1pM
Hi Rebess,
Many a true word spoken in jest!
I recall all to well your predictions that were subsequently proven to be well founded!
Despite Kees Dekker's concerns expressed in 2015 and again in 2018 Pardey continued to deny the obvious and resorted to claiming Kees Dekker was using inaccurate data although when Kees offered to rewrite the articles if Pardey were to to send the alleged correct data all dialogue between them ceased and then Pardey tried to suppress the Seeking Alpha articles!
https://tinyurl.com/bdhfk4z2
https://criticalinvestor.eu/kees-dekker-centamin-plc-get-out-while-the-going-is-good-again/
https://seekingalpha.com/author/kees-dekker
In exchange for considerable, if brutal, security assistance, Wagner required something in return.
Mali, like many African nations, is rich in natural resources - from timber and gold to uranium and lithium. Some are simply valuable, while others have strategic importance as well.
According to Dr Watling, Wagner was operating in a well-established tradition: "There is a standard Russian modus operandi, which is that you cover the operational costs with parallel business activity. In Africa, that is primarily through mining concessions."
In every country in which it operates, Wagner was reported to have secured valuable natural resources using these to not only cover costs, but also extract significant revenue. Russia has extracted $2.5bn (£2bn) worth of gold from Africa in the past two years, which is likely to have helped fund its war in Ukraine, according to the Blood Gold Report.
This month, Russian fighters - formerly Wagner mercenaries - took control of Mali's Intahaka gold mine, close to the border with Burkina Faso. The artisanal mine, the largest in northern Mali, had been disputed for many years by various armed groups active in the region.
But there is something else, with potential geopolitical significance.
"We are now observing the Russians attempting to strategically displace Western control of access to critical minerals and resources," says Dr Watling.
In Mali, the mining code was recently re-written to give the junta greater control over natural resources. That process has already seen an Australian lithium mine suspend trading on its shares, citing uncertainty over the implementation of the code.
While lithium and gold mines are clearly important, according to Dr Watling there is possibly an even greater strategic headache around the corner: "In Niger the Russians are endeavouring to gain a similar set of concessions that would strip French access to the uranium mines in the country."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-68322230
Today, the Wagner Group’s activities in Africa – and elsewhere, as shown by the recent revelation of its receipt of missiles from North Korea – continue to provide it with important financial and military resources that support Russia’s continued invasion of Ukraine.
Why is it called the Wagner Group?
The origin of the name of the group is unclear. It is believed that the company was named after founder Dmitry Utkin’s old military call sign “Wagner.” Utkin, who reportedly has neo-Nazi sympathies, is said to have chosen that name in honor of the 19th-century German composer Richard Wagner. Adolf Hitler was an admirer of Wagner’s music, which he saw as the embodiment of the German nation.
The Wagner Group operates in a legal gray area in Russia. Russian law forbids citizens from serving as mercenaries, but state-run companies can have private armed security forces.
Nevertheless, the group registered as a company in 2022 and opened a headquarters in St. Petersburg. The group’s leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, has increasingly become more vocal in the public sphere about Wagner’s fighting prowess in Ukraine and purportedly has Russian President Vladimir Putin’s support.
In Mali, Wagner Group forces have been implicated in several massacres, including one in March 2022 in which at least 400 civilians were killed, and in torture, disappearances, and looting, as they have simultaneously fought rebels while attempting to secure mining concessions and advance military ties between Mali and Russia.
https://tinyurl.com/mr2parcs
Hi Dazut,
Considering the unrest and insurgency in the region I wonder Doropo will end up being a wise investment, I did hear that the initial grades weren't anything spacial, but hopefully they will improve.
How many of these analysts are actually involved Ion the shop floor or how often have they visited these operations, they are reliant on what they are told and to be frank the analysts have a past track record of being hopelessly wrong more times than right.
But lets see this time I hope that its my doubts which are proven unfounded!
Tibbs
Also fair comment Somnamma,
I agree there are procurement regulations, but that said these are reliant upon the enforcement and compliance by all parties concerned, but unfortunately as we are aware even in the sophisticated western countries corporate bribery in political circles and board rooms exists, although sometimes this regarded as party donations, a seat on the board or even corporate hospitality which is tax deductible and so its hardly surprising that many of these overseas countries due to inequality and oppressive or corrupt regimes there exists a sub culture of brown envelopes and palm greasing that is ingrained and in many ways has become excepted or expected custom and practice.
Tibbs
Hi Mr Henderson,
I have asked the accuser for the relevant evidence to substantiate these allegations.
Until then I have asked the LSE moderator to remove my initial post .
But in the meantime any information you might come across would be gratefully received
Tibbs
Hi Somnamma,
Yes I thought this may wake up some on here !
I too have held a senior position in local government procurement and what is being alleged here amounts to a purchasing manager offering commercial advantage to contractors for a price.
So I purposely didn't post the sources details because I am trying to obtain some more information, as to the Centamin whistleblowing hotline I see little point in that considering the way that the company cant even be bothered to answer share holders questions fully or even acknowledge them in some instances.
However I have contacted the person making these allegations for the evidence to substantiate thse allegations and if they are forthcoming then I shall contact the company and if need the appropriate UK regulators
Tibbs