Member Info for longtimeinvestor

The market decided to give Lloyds a lower valuation today (market cap) than yesterday.

The share price is 53.32p

Without their buyback programmes the share would would currently be about 44p

Rob

''just an estimate, by how much do you think the 4 bn buyback could increase the share price by, we know the markets determine the share price on a daily basis, i'm just asking by how much do you think the buybacks should increase the sp by''

??

please read and comprehend -

it seems one or two STILL cannot comprehend, and need the same thing repeated to them over and over and over and over and over again until maybe then it sinks in (must be age related.)

The market decides on the valuation (market cap) of Vodafone on a daily basis -

NOTHING TO DO WITH BUYBACKS, which the purpose of is to solely to reduce share capital.

Buybacks for cancellation would increase the SP over what it would otherwise be.

BE

do a bit of shopping over the weekend to find yourself a brain that functions

it seems one or two STILL cannot comprehend, and need the same thing repeated to them over and over and over and over and over again until maybe then it sinks in (must be age related.)

The market decides on the valuation (market cap) of Vodafone on a daily basis.

NOTHING TO DO WITH BUYBACKS, which the purpose is to solely to reduce share capital.

Buybacks for cancellation would increase the SP over what it would otherwise be.

It seems one or two cannot comprehend, and need the same thing repeated to them over and over and over and over and over again until maybe then it sinks in (must be age related.)

The market decides on the valuation of Vodafone on a daily basis.

NOTHING TO DO WITH BUYBACKS, which the purpose of them is solely to reduce share capital

Dan

''Thank's a lot Fleccy if you can help me on this one. ''

Flec is not too keen on buybacks.

You have already been given relevant info regarding buybacks - it is up to you to digest properly which would help with investment decisions.

The current market cap is under 22 Billion Euros. Your stated believe is that a 4 Billion investment in Vodafone shares would reduce that figure by 4 Billion, which with your thinking would make Vodafone not a very good investment to be purchasing .

The market determines the value of Vodafone on a daily basis.

There is no direct connection between the assets that Vodafone have and the market cap.

Vodafone net assets at about 63 Billion Euro

Current market cap is less then 22 Billion Euro

this makes buybacks excellent value, making investments purchasing at a large discount the assets that generate the Vodafone profits that are the main driver of market valuations.

Vodafone make excellent returns on these assets making the investment of 4 Billion very hard to beat

Vodafone net assets at about 63 Billion Euro

Current market cap is less then 22 Billion Euro

this makes buybacks excellent value, making investments purchasing at a large discount the assets that generate the Vodafone profits that are the main driver of market valuations.

Vodafone make excellent returns on these assets making the investment of 4 Billion very hard to beat

Returns allocated to shareholders from profitability of the business will in the near future be distributed to Billions fewer shares.

Vodafone net assets at about 63 Billion Euro

Current market cap is less then 22 Billion Euro

this makes buybacks excellent value, making investments purchasing at a large discount the assets that generate the Vodafone profits that are the main driver of market valuations.

Another good week with the average buyback price still at sub 50p -

1.84p discount from next Thursday, with Fakey having to pay out £920 then if he ever had the open sell bet , and keeps.

Dan is expecting the market cap to fall by 4 Billion

Vodafone net assets at about 63 Billion Euro

Current market cap is less then 22 Billion Euro"

The buyback will be investing 4 Billion purchasing assets at way below the actual net asset value.

The value of the investment gets transferred to the remaining shares

Kr

''What do you think a cancelled share is?''

''it has created no value at the point of cancellation.''

''The 4 billion is essentially leaving the business ''

Stop the nonsense once and for all - 4 Billion is being INVESTED on behalf of shareholders, the result of which is shareholders will own a greater percentage of the business with the cancelled shares no longer having a right to assets and profits.

no more from me to you on the subject.

KR

''A more fitting example is the last few Vodafone ex-divi days as you are dealing with cash which is the asset we are talking about. If the cash has no impact on the market cap, why does the share price open the next day at exactly less than what is being paid out?''

ffs does it really need spelling out? dividends are monies leaving the business, where shareholders pre xd are entitled to.

Spanish and Italian proceeds will be invested - there is no 'special' dividend

KR added with BE to the waffle list

Kr

why is it that things need repeating over and over

There is NO direct connection between value of assets and the market capitalisation..

Is about a third of the current market cap due to the Spanish and Italian assets ? -

NO

Vodafones total assets are about 155 Billion Euro with net assets at about 63 Billion

Current market cap is less then 22 Billion Euro

PC also trying to put sense into people who have a lot to learn

A123 also trying to put sense into people who have a lot to learn

''If anyone thinks that getting on for 20% of the current market capitalisation is due to the Spanish and Italian assets need to think again.''

20% is a reference to JUST the 4 Billion buyback spend.

Kr

''no one is saying that the share buybacks will reduce the share price but there is no reason for it to material change the share price either.''

How many more times does it need saying for it to sink in -

The market decides on the valuation of Vodafone on a daily basis, so your above comment was not needed.

''You, on the other hand, seem to be tying yourself up in knots''

I NEVER tie myself in knots - more a case that some cannot understand things

'' trying to rationalise why the share price going down is a good thing for the next 12 months or so and anyone who suggests they would want the price to go up in that period is somehow missing the bigger picture that only you can appreciate.''

trying??

This is what i mean by not understanding.

The more shares that can be bought for 4 Billion Euro the better it is for those investors planning to keep shares for the longer term.

Those wishing to exit Vodafone asap to invest elsewhere will not care about the longer term and would prefer a £1 + price asap.

''These "non performing assets" clearly have value. 4 billion for Vodafone Spain and 8 billion for Vodafone Italy. So when that cash generated from their sale is spent, it's not money they will ever get back and it will have an impact of the market cap. Using the cash for buybacks probably won't change it much at all due to the two largely cancelling each other out.''

ffs

first of all yet again - the market decides on a daily basis the value of Vodafone.

There is NO direct connection between value of assets and the market capitalisation.

If anyone thinks that getting on for 20% of the current market capitalisation is due to the Spanish and Italian assets need to think again.

Vodafones total assets are about 155 Billion Euro with net assets at about 63 Billion

Current market cap is less then 22 Billion Euro

Dan thinks that the buyback will reduce the market cap by a further 4 Billion

'' "You have a lot to learn " ''

yes it appears so

''There is that phrase again. You seem to be describing a situation where a company buys back it's own shares using cash it has generated, and would be expected to generate the same cash again, rather than cash from one off assets sales.''

Haven't a clue what you are trying to say, but the asset sale will not impact profitability as those assets were not generating profits.