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Broch thanks for the update. That sounds bizarre IMO. What opportunity, producing huge savings from somewhere? The sale of a property? a massive new contract? Agreement from an external party. A developer. A takeover of part of Amazon? Or maybe DK is going to give the business some form of loan/advance purchase of GLS.
If it is to be believed it suggests the CWU have knowingly not given their members, the full picture and have agreed with the business to produce this additional money at a contrived time.
It also looks like the PEC member has broken confidentiality and I am sure DW/AF will not be pleased. Could it jeopardise this opportunity?
Broch, what's your opinion? Do you give it any credence?
AngerS I agree seems unlikely at this stage, perhaps some being naughty to try and influence it being a NO vote. Why would those unsure vote yes if they think they could squeeze out some more £'s?
T2K I have read a couple of comments on FB making the same suggestion with varying amounts being mentioned. If it were to be the case, you would expect the business to be making a formal announcement quite quickly, obviously before the vote closes if it is intended to influence the outcome.
There are many differing opinions on whether a yes or no vote is best. Would seem a bit odd IMO if the business were to make more money available if there was even a small likelihood of a yes vote. What immediate difference would a no vote make to the business? Would they wait till then before increasing their lump sum? The suggestion of further money would surely encourage a NO vote and that would put the CWU leadership in a precarious position. As always, we will have to wait for further developments.
Citadel reduce again. Total 1.38%
https://shorttracker.co.uk/
AngerS I agree. The CWU normally go in all guns blazing and have in the past gained significant concessions. I think they thought it would be the same this time round. The promises and statements made were purely to get the leverage they required from the members. This has backfired and a lot of the members are now throwing the statements and empty promises back at them.
Some are suggesting the exec did a deal to ensure their own positions and the collection of subs from payroll (it was mentioned this would stop and members would have to pay by DD) not sure what the position is on that now.
Whatever way you cut this they have a lot of disgruntled members whichever way the vote goes, and many have threatened to quit and save their fees. Of course, the exec wants a yes vote as it ensures their involvement in JW groups for the next year to eighteen months. Lots of the changes around lapsing and changed start and finish times are ongoing and that is making members question the level of influence the CWU now has and moving forward.
Most people wanted a speedy resolution and minimal damage both to the business and the employees and customers, but the power struggle overtook common sense. IMO
AngerS I listened to most of the interview, fast forwarding through parts. Firstly I thought both DW/AF were very calm and quite sheepish. The fighting talk had stopped and was about trying to explain in some more detail aspects of the agreement. Some useful info in there but still loads of detailed work to be done with joint working parties etc etc.
Overall, it sounded like they accepted what the business had been telling them from the outset, but they were demonstrating some of the gains/pull backs from the business they had achieved. Compromises from both sides.
The comments online are still very bitter and despite views on here ranging from 100% NO to "a resounding YES" I have now moved to 51/49 YES mainly as some are discussing and beginning to consider the unknown consequences of voting NO.
There are so many vague areas in the agreement deployment will no doubt throw up many challenges.
Meanwhile not long until the FY financials and we will see the full detail of the damage and cost of USO. Then the result of the vote early June and then maybe the business can move forward. What that will look like is anyone's guess. AIMO
PP taken from the online link Golfinger posted.
"The increase date for your pension this year is 10 April, therefore the pension payment you receive in April will be increased only for part of the month. Any GMP increase will be applied from 6 April"
This may explain the lower %
Just catching up on a few days' posts here and online. The anger being expressed online is much more than I expected. Although I thought a number would be very unhappy, I thought they would fall in line with the exec recommendation. It is of course mainly delivery personnel who will bear the brunt and based on the few hundreds of comments it must be at least 80/20 against accepting the deal. The comments have moved quickly from we will support the union to the end to what a betrayal and I am coming out of the union.
It really has opened some eyes and many are saying its more about preservation of the CWU hierarchy than getting a better deal.
Some of the comments are unbelievably naive saying it's a no and get back in negotiations and get a better deal to what happens after we say no, late starts will mean hundreds leaving, get the executive actions reversed, what are the alternatives if we vote no? It's as if some have just read for the first time this week what is happening.
The CWU are of course trying to sell it as best they can by saying it could have been worse but getting short shrift from the members, I honestly can't call how they will vote, I initially said it will go through no problem as recommended by the exec, then I thought after reading early comments by a small majority, it is now no better than 50/50 IMO.
PP both my wife and my pensions have gone up close to the 7% we are in both main schemes. I have seen little communications on the increases including online. It also seems random when you get a pay slip although our P60's did arrive yesterday. Maybe some tax impacts as well. We are both old codgers and I did start contributing when I was 18 in the late 70's and my wife a couple of years later. The pension fund does seem fairly secure but we are keeping an eye on any developments.
Ispy I think the £500 was left to make the 6% now seem more palatable. You are correct that if £1500 was left some would instantly see that as more attractive given some would see that as making up what they had lost. I do hope the business can be pragmatic and realistic about family friendly agreements/changes. I know in some of the work areas I managed this was a huge issue and virtually all were able to be catered for. I also found that any goodwill gained around that was repaid at other times. I hope it can work for you as I am sure leaving after 33 years would be a tough call. Signing off for weekend. GLA
Ispy I am not sure how the business could ask for a vote for the lump sum. The CWU negotiators obviously went for what they thought was best for the members. Thats good, it doesn't impact you too much and hopefully that is the case for many. I was certain the deal would be accepted if the exec endorsed but the level of anger on CWU FB suggests it may not be as clear cut as I thought. The USO does get mentioned several times and is generally about making it work. Good to read that the business and CWU will make joint representation to OFCOM around this. I still think given the FY financials some change may be suggested.
Talk2Much I think the issue for some is they have lost approx. £1500 through 18 days of strikes so the £500 doesn't cover that straight off. It does as you say balance out and better to have the 6% into overtime rates from April 23 as I am sure the hooley kings and queens will take as much as is available to get the service back on track and achieving QoS.
The detailed agreement which I have only skim read in last hour or so. As you would expect some interesting detail in there around dedicated parcel routes, start finish times, financial position, sick leave, data usage, timescales for changes. Loads of joint working groups are being set up so that will keep some of the CWU exec busy. Well worth a read IMO
https://www.cwu.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/RMG-and-CWU-Business-Recovery-Transformation-and-Growth-Agreement-NEGOTIATORS-AGREEMENT-IN-PRINCIPLE-FORMATTED-FINAL-21.04.23-005.pdf
My first read of the summary, it seems fair. A few concessions in there from both sides. Compromise and rebuild. I still need to see if there is further detail on USO position, GLS impact if any. Some combining of Parcels a sensible move. Tons more still to be delivered and achieved but this IMO at this point feels like a platform to build on. Hopefully a 3-year deal means some stability.
No surprise that I am wrong again. No RNS at 1100am when the CWU started their briefing to reps. Got to ask why not? Is it because the key points have been issued to employees? Would the % pay rise not be market sensitive if different to the 10% that has been bandied about. Is the business going to wait until the vote takes place? Nothing showing on the IDS press release page nor on CWU FB page, so they are keeping their members in the dark as well. I know it will come when it comes but.......