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33% is very fair as theyre only renting devices they have purchased. So the depreciation is on the buy price of a second hand device.
Id imagine they have much more accurate figures, but i can only see it being lower than 1/3
I agree totally, results were as expected, I bought more on the thought it would hit high teens after they came out. My son has a 400k share buy limit set at 7p and I'm holding tight. I'm saying there is something bigger at play, not that it's going to crumble.
It feels a little like if someone isn't 100% positive you're going to spin that they're Lex Luthor
I don't think a £150k punt on an undervalued but well known company by a multi millionaire means much IMO, its likely 1 of 50 investments, a third will fail, a third will thrive and a third wont do much. I actually think its been a cause for conjecture. My cost is around the same, albeit with less shareholding. All of my predictions have been wrong and my gut/ego is telling me that means something isn't quite right...
Price still horribly undervalued but something bigger is at play here. I have very close to 1m shares and I'm praying the rug doesn't get ripped from under all of our feet but I have a feeling were going to be left feeling very bitter and with empty pockets.
I think it was mentioned the other day, but the directors cannot buy shares while there is an offer period... It would class as insider trading. Reason for the mention is I'm sure it was used as evidence for negative chatter.
Interesting news, refurbished tech market predicted to double in size by 2030.
https://www.whatech.com/og/markets-research/it/785844-refurbished-electronics-market-expected-to-exceed-us-94-10-billion-by-2031
10m+ Apple devices sold in the UK a year making 10m devices redundant at a £600 avg. new price. Even if we hit it with a huge 50% depreciation it leaves £300 per device value in 2nd hand market... or £3bn in revenue. Same again for Android. So £6bn available.
o2 has around 30% market share and when Redeem had 100% of their recycling work and pushed the narrative like crazy, their revenues were only £32m. Under 1% of the total revenue from the redundant devices.
Note that Redeem figures are from 2014, but my point is - there is quite enough to go around, another note that this is only Apple, the same again for android.
ITAD acquisitions has actually slowed down as far as I can see, Restore have written themselves out of any further purchases and they were adding large competition for them. I actually thought MMAG might have been on their radar previously...
Mazuma has lost Circa £10m in recent years so their recent turn in form is encouraging, also Craig Smith has taken back ownership of some of the group and i'd assume he has more focus on ICT reverse (his baby) so that will if anything slow their appetite for consumer takeback, not that they're a threat.
I couldn't agree more on the undervaluation - Ignoring Canaccord dropping shares, the board don't seem to be forthcoming with information, and that is scary rather than concerning and keeping the price low. Nothing has changed from pre BT "offer" yet the value has halved. It should correct itself if the results posted are even slightly positive.
I'm in the market as an investor/consultant yes and I do own a chunk here.
Are you allowed to disclose how many shares Josey?
Redundancies have been announced/confirmed today, over 15 from head office.
Brand strength will retain revenues, cuts will increase profit. Business wise, makes sense. Morally I don't like people being on the butchers block.
Shares are still a steal here, might take time but it'll be on the up soon, finger in the air, it'll realign quite quickly with pre BT mess post results.
I'm also not sure on what is or isn't disclosed on an RNS however, "im going to do this" and "im doing this" are different.
Neither - I'm close enough to know that 1%+ shareholders are there but unknown and far enough that I wont lose a job. Information I see comes from higher up from the other side of the fence.
The timing is interesting, are we looking at take-over requests being actioned or a spin on the numbers that are due, "we made X but with recent cuts it would be Y"
In addition to ending the engagement with the consultants - saving circa £1m+. Last week it was announced that there will be 15% of staff cut from head office. Saving over £1m-£1.5m. Could be £3m saved. Decluttr is also to be shut down to focus on UK.
Smart decisions to get the company back on track IMO.
Me either, I’ve been in the industry for a few decades now. I saw ICT reverse/Mazuma was mentioned earlier in this chat, I remember when MMAG went to ICT back when it was SHP close to 15 years ago for them to do their processing. Times have moved forward since then!
I have only briefly looked at it but the rentals work, desperate consumers pay high, nearly a pay-day loan model. It is though risky, as recently shown, so I can only imagine this particular rental model was started to prove it worked with a view to securing a different financial model when the trust was there. When MMAG first started renting, banks wouldn’t look at supporting with finance due to it being used equipment and the risks of manufacturer warranties not being there. With all the sustainability pushes, that has very much changed over the last few years and I see the risk of a large revolving credit facility reducing as a leasing offering will be at the forefront of their marketing very soon.
Whether its acquired, delisted or otherwise, the valuation is low and I see a value rise soon, a cutting of costs and staff will show increased margins in the July interim results
BT/EE have a strong brand, if the main reason to acquire MMAG was to increase throughput of second hand devices then wouldn't they have looked to strengthen their offering that's already set up? Their own recycling website isnt competitive on pricing and isn't on comparison websites. The service is backed by Likewize, a Multi-Billion $ company who are primed for any increase in volume. I've seen their Northern American facilities stock upwards of 150k devices valued over £60m. So my thinking is there was more at play.
Saying all that, it's not relevant now, but perhaps, MMAG had interest from BT/EE due to it's undervaluation throughout last year alongside MMAG ability to assist with what I mentioned earlier, the potential of white goods being introduced into their product stack. Now with a failed acquisition MMAG is perceived as weaker still, dropping the valuation further.
A rebound is very likely, any guess to where is just that, but fingers crossed mid-20s post results in early March!
On another note, does anyone know when renting a device from MMAG how the VAT works. Buying used mobile phones from consumers qualifies for Marginal VAT. (pay VAT at 16.66% on the margin rather than sales price). So VAT due on a device that was purchased at £150, and sold at £200 would be £8.33 (16.66% of £50) - just curious as it may also have some impact on why B2B markets aren't considering acquisition here.