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I’m not on another platform. Also I’m not a deramper. I haven’t really said anything negative other than we don’t really know what the vague statement means
I really don’t get what’s got you all so upset?
Someone want to point out which bit shows I’m negative on THG?
Goldy
https://uk.advfn.com/forum/profile/mrsimmons
MrsImmons is trouble - what out all. Above is their advfn profile. You will see the lies they go to
Ste where’s the trolling in this post. Please explain.
SP - if ingenuity is going to do 115m @ 60% that’s 70m of ebitda. The group margin they tell us will fall this year to just under 6%. So on fy22 revenue of let’s say 3bn that’s ebitda of 170m. that means the rest of the group is making 100m ebitda on 2.9 bn revenue which is 3% margin. That can’t be right. You are saying the underlying and vast vast majority of business has a margin of 3%? That is worse than a high street b and m retailer.
Goldenyears FAKE PROFILE
It seems goldy was called BLDM on advfn. They start out saying they want a balanced discussion and attack others statements and become more and more bearish then negative then attacking to all.
It seems Mrs Immons also works with goldenyears / BLDM.
Sad people - guessing about to sky rocket and shorts getting nervous
Goldenyears - it’s all over Advfn. You are apparently a known troll. It’s over for you here
Tragic btw to have to send Sunday Ben b paid 4 p a deramp
This is all very exciting, they are sending them out on a Sunday now, hope they are on double time.
2phevs I’ve been nice in return. I’m just saying the point you made didn’t really have relevance to what I said as I never said conflicts between competitors would be an issue. Ultimately we know this isn’t the case as most ingenuity clients are beauty and we own lookfantastic!
So it was an obvious point and one I never made
Goldy
Ste why am I deramping? All I’ve said is don’t get too excited about a vague statement? And then listed some facts. What has been deramping?
This an example of scared “waffle”
It’s like throwing round “******” or “sexist” etc. when people get scared it’s better to try and cancel them for being a “deramper” then sharing a balanced opinion and us all benefiting
I’m not negative on THG at all
I was just providing balance to a vague statement
Goldy
Well I tried to be nice golden but seems like the Sunday papers have given up and handed over to some thoughtless trolls never mind
All I’ve said is don’t get too excited about one very vague statement and it’s caused all this!
Some people really are in love with this share
It’s not your wife
Good investors are critical. Why is it so upsetting for you all when I say don’t get too excited about a vague statement which none of you have been able to defend? Doesn’t that prove the point? That it’s a vague statement
Ignore the “waffle” and look at facts!
Ingenuity can be great. But atm it’s a little early to really push the button on valuation being huge. Valuable yes! But huge value? We just don’t know yet so need to learn a bit more
Goldy
Hahahahahahaha - MrsImmons has reappeared on this board. This sad excuse of a being has been ripped apart on the advfn thg board by toansy. Well worth a read. The best thing is MrsImmons goes by the same name so you can identify her easily
You know thg is about to rocket when trolls and paid derampers like MrsImmons and goldenyears come out of the wood work
2phevs don’t see your point as following on from anything I’ve said at all tbh. I’ve never said brands wouldn’t mind being conflicted
My point was that it was claimed nothing was known due to ndas
1) an nda always has a cut out for anything in the public realm so if we have D2C website with FMCGs we can shout about them
2) it’s only recently THG stopped giving clients names and services so NdAs just popped up as the reason? No of course not. It’s because they are purposely being coy
Goldy
SP - if ingenuity is going to do 115m @ 60% that’s 70m of ebitda. The group margin they tell us will fall this year to just under 6%. So on fy22 revenue of let’s say 3bn that’s ebitda of 170m. that means the rest of the group is making 100m ebitda on 2.9 bn revenue which is 3% margin. That can’t be right. You are saying the underlying and vast vast majority of business has a margin of 3%? That is worse than a high street b and m retailer.
Wow missed the falling out here watching the Liverpool and eurovision
I understand goldens concerns but if you've never worked in bespoke fulfillment or don't understand it then perhaps it's best to stick to asos boohoo etc.
Personally I worked at caudwell back in 96-99 (Peter Jones off dragons was there at the time can't remember MM though) twice I was given a cold customer list to call and the initial feedback was horrible customer stating why would we buy stock from a retail competitor that trying to undercut us all the time then I was introduced to the fulfillment side and the amount of customers that jumped at our bespoke packaging logistics stockholding etc.. Was amazing they didn’t care about us being competitors as long as we kept everything strictly confidential nda's but learning the best offerings from these clients we could show presentations to potential clients using examples of what we could bespoke without naming names to create interest and boy did we get interest just look up what happened to caudwell with Vodafone he made a fortune and they were on UK based
What’s arrogant about just stating facts?
Look at my first post it wasn’t arrogant at all I was just saying it’s a bit of balance. I was then attacked so stepped up
Nothing arrogant at all. I’m just responding that what I’m saying isn’t “waffle”
It’s great that you’re seeing it internally but in terms of any other global FMCG we haven’t seen anything. As I said nestle was talked up and now we hear nothing. So not to be arrogant but you can’t make that statement as there is nothing to say what we are told re FMCGs. Their revenues, scale, GMVs or geographies. If I’m wrong then which client?
Sorry you’ll find that “arrogant” but it’s just cutting back from that vague statements that are made here
Heres, seems I went from harmless to sending you over the boundary for 6 in only a few posts!
What is wrong with a bit of balance? Why does this makes you all so angry? It’s rather odd. Are you in love with THG?
Goldy
I go back to yesterday Goldy- you lose all impact as you are so arrogant in the way you write and it comes across so self righteous - reflect on this for a while sir
The facts are the fmcg I work for (top 10 global f&b) are moving towards using ingenuity in 3 geos. Thg have shared presentations and gone into more detail on what they are doing for similar companies )it’s impressive)
Thg have reaffirmed guidance of up to 120m£ ebitda at 60%+ Margin which big new wins such as matalan and others in the pipeline
I don’t think we are. I’m saying don’t get all excited about broad and vague statements which we don’t have a clue what they mean
I then give cold hard facts and get told it’s waffle. What has SP given back to counter? Not a single fact. Just “waffle” claiming I mustn’t own a share or waffle that I’m saying it’s worth £0
It’s very worrying how someone using facts is labelled waffle vs the man with just vague unsubstantiated statements ironicy to back up his love of vague and unsubstantiated statements. Couldn’t make it up!
Ingenuity is a great asset. Look at the success of MyProtein and lookfantastic. But as a service itself there are still huge questions on it. And some of them very big but fundamental questions
Goldy
Weirdly I think SP and Goldy are broadly in agreement
Pull it together guys !!!
What is waffle?
Is it not true that in every single update up until Dec that we saw details on new clients and services? Yes it’s factually true. What is waffle is stating “it’s because of NDAs” when actually that isn’t the case at all (see the 6 or so RNS with proof)
Is it waffle that the GSK site never happened? Is it waffle that GSK have a very active D2C strategy which doesn’t involve THG? No they are factual points
Is it waffle there is still no Vimto site?
What is waffle? None of it. What it does is show that you getting excited about the FMCGs is waffle as you’re all excited about something you haven’t a clue about the size or scale. So that by definition is waffle
My points are factual statements
I critique as as I’ve said. It’s a share it has good and bad elements. But it’s only a share. You don’t have to love it unconditionally. This isn’t a cult. I can still think ingenuity is worth a lot more than £0 (I’ve said all along in positive) my point was to bring balance. I’ve been very clear on that
You just seem to think that as I chip away at your blind love of ingenuity and the FMCGs (which you haven’t the foggiest on) that that means I’m negative
You should alway critique your shares. That’s being a good investor.
As I said I can happily value this for you (or give you a framework) but give the above is waffle we can’t step to that part yet
Goldy
WAFFLE WAFFLE WAFFLE! LMAO
As you just stated, I don't understand the business at all, don't understand anything about THG or THG Ingenuity, you are the self proclaimed expert here (and seems like an equal expert on BOO), and seem to know everything, better than everyone else, so please go ahead and answer the simple question!!! Are you a politician? Very good at dodging questions!
'Something' tells me, you don't hold a single share!
Why would someone spend so much time, trying to critique on a open chatboard, in a company they are invested in haha. Surely if you had all these reservations on both THG and also BOO, you would sell up, and invest elsewhere. You do know there are thousands of companies out there ;) Make it make sense people.
(YOU FAIL THE LOGIC AND COMMON SENSE TEST - If I was so negative on a company I was holding in, I would sell up and move on. The last thing anyone would do, is what you are doing hahaha). on the ignore list, defo a troll, can see from your previous posts, it's very transparent)
Sorry you’re right I didn’t give it a value. But I’d like to see you go first as given the points you’ve said it clear you don’t quite understand what ingenuity does or is doing for people (cokes B2B is an example)
I also don’t think you understand the break down of the revenues. But I’ll give you an honest and detailed assessment after
On the FMCG point I agree re NDAs but as I’ve said with the nestle point. THG were all discussing the amazing stuff they were doing for nestle and how this would grow and grow at the ipo. Since then radio silence. You can say anything about a client if it’s in the public. It was until recently that In quarterly updates RNS we were always given new client sign up and detail of what we were doing (names include GSK (although this site has never appeared! Coke, Vimto (another site that has never appeared), KAO group (huge in Japan) so it’s not true that NDA and non-disclosure is fully in play as it was the norm that we saw deatils!). Jack will is another site launched by THG and now binned.
So this my point. You want to “value” contracts with Top 5 FMCGs when all of a sudden we don’t know what we do for one (which originally they were very vocal about). NDAs is not the excuse as detail was the norm. Not the other way round
I’m positive on ingenuity this is just balance! Don’t get too excited about these broad sweeping statements as we haven’t a clue what they actually mean. GSK for example (supposed to be doing a site with ingenuity - never shown up). Read it’s annual report it’s done a few D2C sites in the US (it’s a U.K. business) and none have been powered by Ingenuity
I’m sorry for actually doing some research which you might not like the answers to but as an investor it’s your job to be sceptical and balanced
This isn’t saying ingenuity = £0 it just means you need a better understanding of it. Evidenced as well by the way you state the revenues which has some other obvious big questions in it
Twatty
I like to read SP’s posts and ditto Goldy’s
It’s good to have other opinions / views
Keep it the discussion civil and it’s cool.
Goldy , being fair Ingenuity is in at zero value, what’s your call on the combined value of balance ? - out of interest ?
I was once in a share where NDA,s was the excuse used each time to invalidate a point , it went t**s up in the end . Ingenuity valued at zero is wrong in any ones book & should be way way more . Still have to say Goldy makes some food for thought , maybe we are expecting too much from the Sp .
Anyway 4 quid will Do
GlA
Wow someone has lost the plot a little! (I know AS1 said have a beer, looks like you've gone through one too many). No need for personal insults on anyone, not cool!
I see you quite conveniently ignored to answer my very simple question! Gave you a clue, it's >£0 hehe!!! And yet you continued with your rant, to try and plant a seed of doubt on here with a lot of waffle, waffling!
I have not attacked you, you have some valid points, however basic understanding of business and common sense will tell you, full disclosure on all details on all tie ups (which is what you are asking for), is impossible to give, is akin to shooting yourself in the foot (both feet)!!!
With the unique nature of the business, taking on competing brands/FMCG's/companies etc, all will have been negotiated separately on thier own merits etc, and most probs have NDA's in place. (Only 1 example: Global Advertising Companies, they never going to disclose commercial details about all their major clients they sign up, never gona happen!!)
FACT is, it grew by 135% in 2021, already been told will grow by 150%+ in 2022 from £45m to £115m! AGAIN to point out, (good enough for my simpleton mind), market cap is worth a 'little' bit more than £0 ;)