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Delisting when the ruble has gone back to pre Ukraine levels? I want to get in on Russia.
VOTING AGAINST because I'm fed up of this Schwab/Gates attack on the ordinary investor.
Please all of you vote against so we don’t lose our money
wimmen`s logic ?
or what ?
I've voted for the resolution in all my accounts although I feel like a turkey voting for Xmas!
what exactly does that mean. tell us. it is not PREVENT is it .
going ahead.
the last info they gave MID MARCH referred to the huge problem of a PUNATIVE rouble exchange rate lol
since then the rouble has more than doubled and is superstrong even against a very strong dollar, something our mendacious leaders chose not to tell us about.
The UK is now a disgrace , no rule of law anymore.
only weakness this company had was a weak rouble since the proprty was so valued. Look now rouble highest for over 2 years against a super strong $.
their first rns to put the fear of god etc. talked about sanctions and counter sanctions. I am fairly sure there were/are no counter sanctions. What sanctions? anybody know.
This is all driven by the uk govt and should not be happening.
Seems next week it is then and then a shareholder vote ?
Do we have any idea when the circulars for the proposed delisting will get sent out ? Anyone heard of dates of the shareholder meeting to propose he required resolutions for the delisting?
nice to see some common sense after the 2 show off. , 1 deramper a week ago.
At year end the properties are valued in roubles then converted. That was briefly but no longer is a problem at all. I don`t know who the tenants are but never a problem in renting 97% capacityn to folk who reliably pay. So what crisis ? none.
the only thing that bothers me at all is brits in charge are establishment types ( one reason I invested ) who may take orders from the clowns running the uk economy who try to hate russia more than anyone else.
Yes it is an option which management can choose to exercise or not but it can only be exercised after we have voted to delist! Once we vote to delist that's the end, the management can't then ignore a shareholder vote!
Surely Jenni - it's a "hedged" option - I think they have initiated it to "see what happens" and only actually exercise that option if reaches that point where it appears to be in the best interests of the company and (err.... and the shareholders)
The more I think about this deal the more I dislike it and think it unnecessary. MOEX is open now and Russian share have fallen about 30% since the start of the year, I'd expect property and especially warehousing to be down less. The Ruble is now down about 10% but our dollar debt is hedged so not a huge impact. We should still have a positive net asset value with rents being paid and when the war ends things are likely to quickly improve. It seems very unlikely that major new sanctions will be introduced that would impact us so I'm not seeing the benefit from transferring ownership.
It seems to me preference share dividends need to be suspended until money can be transferred out of Russia and the company is in a stable position but this is the case no matter who controls the company.
Clearly the Russian management are going to have a lot of work to do especially as foreign tenants may be moving out and they will need to find replacements, they will also need to carefully manage the debt considering the high interests in Russia now. I'd suggest keeping the current listing, returning from suspension as soon possible and pay the Russian management a bonus of a few million if they see the company through to a position where preference dividends resume!
Thank you for clarifying.
Shareholders are not getting "Nominal value", that is what we are paying the Russian management for the option to sell them the assets!
In any case it looks now as if many of the sanctions will be wound back on a peace deal so I think it's better to wait rather than rushing in transferring the assets! As things stand I'll be voting against the delisting!
Is there transfer of shareholder assets to directs likely to be agreed ? Russian assets lot looking as dire as before after today’s positive developments. Maybe a different route should be proposed where shareholders are given a bit more than “nominal value”
So, to be clear:
I've posted the regs showing you can hold property in a SIPP, HMRC site etc
Ive posted a link showing you that private shares can be held in multiple managers SIPPS, from InvestmentSense.
I've explained the transaction.
I've explained how unlisted shares held in an ISA/SIPP get treated by a stockbroker manager.
You've confirmed “ Raven shareholders down but not (completely) out” BUT NOT OUT"
"“ While investors would no longer own the assets of the company, they would keep an economic interest in the business in the shape of two existing unsecured loans and non-voting preference shares.”"" as I've explained several times.
And you now need me to explain "It really is obvious … who does one buy from and who does one sell unlisted stocks to?" you sell them to other investors via subscription/contract or treaty. OTC "over the counter" and via specialist exchanges that offer trading in unlisted private shares. It's thin trade, but it's trade.
If you can't buy and sell shares in private companies, could you try and explain how Angels, Angel clubs, Private Equity, Hedge Funds manage to build up stakes? Why if you can't buy and sell unlisted equity HRMC remove benefits of schemes like SEIS/EIS if you sell early?
You sound like you've traded a few times, but really have very little understanding of corporate finance or investing outside a quick punt on a low cost share dealing service. Hope you've found the information helps your understanding.
Meanwhile from investor chronicle … published 2 days ago …
“ Raven shareholders down but not (completely) out”
Note:
“ While investors would no longer own the assets of the company, they would keep an economic interest in the business in the shape of two existing unsecured loans and non-voting preference shares.”
And
“On top of that, the divestment will need to satisfy sanctioning authorities, and Russian management will need to act as good faith counterparties, despite being cut off from the Raven Property group.”
… and supports my view … with shareholders wiped out and depending upon the good faith of Russian directors in dealing with the RAV shell company … preference share holders also.
Once the raven assets are transferred to Cyprus … RAV can be allowed to go bankrupt.
People on here talking about having written Rav assets “ down to zero “. Like they have any choice, they are worth fxck all and any deal being done between the Cyprus company and Russian “ partners “ will be a stitch up, the equity removed from shareholders and I’m sure certain individuals will benefit massively, Russia and the assets are not going to disappear, ( a lot of this is Biden /Johnson etc trying to rescue careers ) saw it all with Eurasian Natural Resources, Kaz, Vedanta, all this e.europe and Asian stuff is a total nightmare. Stick to US mega caps and btc, U.K. little better, a political basket case, nobody could argue wheezing fat bunter and the brexit loonies have been good for U.K. share prices, most back at covid and brexit lows.
You are not winning this argument devonplay … go on line and search for SIPP providers that allow unlisted stocks to be held …. As I wrote already MNG is the only name I recognise … AJBell and Interactive Investor do not for the reasons I explained already whilst quoting the AJ Bell website directly.
It really is obvious … who does one buy from and who does one sell unlisted stocks to?
:)
“ SIPPs allow unlisted assets.”
Linked from HMRC's site https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/pensions-and-retirement/pensions-basics/self-invested-personal-pensions?source=mas#
company shares (UK and overseas)
collective investments – such as open-ended investment companies (OEICs) and unit trusts
investment trusts
property and land – but not most residential property.
mostly commercial property...I do.
"This list isn’t exhaustive – different SIPP providers offer different investment options."
Private Company Shares - list of companies allowing unlisted equity in a SIPP.
https://investmentsense.co.uk/sipp-zone/help-choosing-your-sipp/allows-unlisted-share-purchase/
The regulations allow it, but not all manager do. As I've try to explain, those that are primarily stockbrokers will usually keep the asset within their nominee, but exclude the tax benefit. Just because it's unlisted you don't become a forced seller (as you call it)...but it doesn't exclude, as I've said, an offer or consolidation as acorporate action from the company.
If you go to HMRC's site you can research the whole SIPP regs.
You are doubly welcome. ;)
" customers to make informed decisions no documentation, no can buy."
Of course you can't buy, the shares are suspended, but as you still hold them they will remain yours inside the nominees holding account. Some will transfer them outside of the wrapper, but still within their nominee structure. So if , for example , you hold them inside an ISA they will transfer them to a trading account. As there is no market they will appear as 0 value.
“ - a nominal consideration of 670 million prefs, plus a 40 million debt and a 1,1 billion rouble issue with all other cash in "RRHCL" returned to RAV. All against assets valued @ c400m.”
- as per the RNS.
The cost for unlisted assets look large in comparison, but that only because you have to compare them to normal market size trades, some unlisted debt, for example, is only tradable in £100k or 200k blocks, but can still be held inside a SIPP and the fees look larger but they are comparable to the market size.
- if it helps. I bought several shares holdings that are covered under the professionals only/complex product labels this week, as they take time to complete, I asked 2 brokers if my understanding of holding de-listed stock inside a tax wrapper was correct. RAV. They confirmed that if the stock couldn't be held inside the tax wrapper they would move it to trading account, if you had one, and ask you create one if you didn't. They do they transfer at 0 value as there's no market price as such. From experience , some will leave them inside the wrapper, but make any payments back outside it.
Just to help you:
"There is no binding obligation on the Company to exercise the option and its exercise is solely at the discretion of the Company. In the event the option is exercised, the Company would retain an economic interest in RRHCL via existing unsecured loans of £41 million and Rub1.1 billion to RHHCL and non voting preference shares of £678 million, attracting a coupon of 8%, 15% and 10% per annum respectively and with a term of ten years until maturity." ....hope that makes it clearer for you. They've sold RHHCL, but hold debt and senior position in the cap. table in the company.
"The Transaction is structured as a put option for nominal cost in the Company's favour"...a nominal cost in the "Company's favour".
We don't know the maturity profile of those prefs, but let say it's a normal redemption , meaning the company, RHHCL, need to redeem them at par, issue price, in 10 years (payback £678 million) and until them pay a blended coupon of say 12%....8%, 15% and 10% . Of course, subject to the sate of the Russian economy and trade., to RAV.
As they've mentioned they have a 10 year maturity, that suggests they might be redeemable prefs., but they do say they aren't convertable, so if they do pay the coupon and redeem the prefs for the par price, then the prefs get cancelled and the assets get owned unencumbered by the parent company of RHHCL, Prestino Investments Ltd. From what we kn
“ - a nominal consideration of 670 million prefs, plus a 40 million debt and a 1,1 billion rouble issue with all other cash in "RRHCL" returned to RAV. All against assets valued @ c400m.”
ROFL
5p a share is my bet for RAV shareholders …. And if they get that Xmas will have come early.
As per my comments below RAVP 0-20p …. With 0p a distinct possibility if the sale of RAV goes to Prestino Investments:
Perhaps this will help that I came across today …. Mr delusional:
“ MOSCOW. March 18 (Interfax) - Raven Property Group (RPG), one of the leaders on the Russian warehouse real estate market, has decided to sell all of its Russian assets to local management "for nominal consideration," and cancel listings on all exchanges where its shares are traded, including the London Stock Exchange and Moscow Exchange , the company said in a statement.
The buyer of the Russian business will be Prestino Investments Ltd, a Cypriot company to be owned and controlled by RPG's Russian management team, led by Igor Bogorodov. Prestino will acquire the entire issued ordinary share capital of Raven Russia (Holdings) Cyprus Limited, which is the existing owner of all of the Group's Russian assets and related debt.”
“ SIPPs allow unlisted assets.”
What can I invest in with an AJ Bell Youinvest SIPP?
You can choose from more than 2,000 funds, as well as shares in the UK and 24 international markets. We also offer investment trusts, ETFs, corporate bonds and gilts. Assets you can't hold in a SIPP with us include private companies (i.e. those not listed on a stock exchange) and peer-to-peer lending. You also can't invest directly in residential or commercial property through your SIPP.
Same is true for II …. The only brand name I recognised among those SIPP providers that allow unlisted shares is MNG with caveats on holding costs that were expensive for unlisted shares. As I said, UK regulations require investor documentation is provided to enable SIPP customers to make informed decisions no documentation, no can buy.
You are welcome.
:)
I fouind the rns hard to understand -probably what they intended. the comments are interesting but also unhelpful with all the SWIPP stuff not relevant for me.
Surely these uk elites jolly good boys have rolled over to establishment pressure with us the victims of their plans ? That will teach them. that is what happens when you act the slightest pro russian. talk about leaping before they were pushed. Now clear that Russia is not collapsing , in fact the opposite, so should we be just putting up with this scam?