Listen to our latest Investing Matters Podcast episode 'Uncovering opportunities with investment trusts' with The AIC's Richard Stone here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Started: CrystalBallBroke, 8 Oct 2017 21:27
Last post: CrystalBallBroke, 9 Oct 2017 17:13
Phoned H&L earlier after getting the scheme message in my secure inbox, and registered my vote, along with checking a few details, and whilst i was on the phone, the chap checked this partial share issue, and apparetnyl they will pay the fraction of a share in cash along with the 37p per share. So, that's nice, i can almost get one free trade out of that. Plus, our shares should be in place in time to be eligible for the CLIN Divi.... a massive 0.3%
Taking that into account, and my trading fee for selling the CLIN shares when i get them, means that i would need to sell the CLIN shares at �11.29 to break even in this deal and get the full value of the offer based on the QP shares being valued at 82p each, and to hit the same value if i was to just sell my shares, i'd need to get 0.837 for the QP shares
nice to see them shafting us to the last penny.... my holding results in an uneven calculation when multiplying my holding by .0405 Resulting in a .877 of a share mis-match..... so they are rounding down to the whole figure (from the official message in my H&L account) and effectively just ignoring that .877 of a CLIN share, which equates to �9.73p roughly, based on each CLIN share being worth �11.10 as per the agreement.
I wonder if this hasn't run it's course yet. i'm gonna hold till the fat lady sings, and see how things play out, i've got nothing to lose so to speak
Another party increasing their holding.
Started: CrystalBallBroke, 3 Oct 2017 15:28
Last post: CrystalBallBroke, 4 Oct 2017 10:12
well i'm still holding, but am wondering at what point it will become more beneficial to get out earlier and not be locked in waiting for the sale and transfer of the CLIN shares.
Not at all. Note the shorts in clin that are going to be caught in a short sqeeze. This could be in for a sudden jump soon.
84.81p offered to sell, that's tempting anyone else jumped ship early ?
Started: CrystalBallBroke, 3 Oct 2017 10:14
Last post: CrystalBallBroke, 3 Oct 2017 10:14
Question.... do you think our shares in CLIN be issued and on the books by the time the Ex-Dividend date rolls around ? According to this http://www.londonstockexchange.com/exchange/news/market-news/market-news-detail/CLIN/13378038.html that would be the 9th of Nov, not that it makes much difference because they are paying a measly 5p on the year (3.4p of that on this upcoming dividend) which on a share of this cost (circa £11) is basically less than half a percent, which is pretty p!ss poor. Looking at the price of CLIN, even a £1.90 rise would only yield the same sort of increase as QP going to 90p, and i know which i would have put my money on doing before the end of the year!! i'll probably let the deal go through take the free shares and as soon as i can get a little more than the deal price i'll be out, unless i need money before the cut off date, which has still to be confirmed right ? but right now it's looking like a long drawn out process.
Started: CrystalBallBroke, 2 Oct 2017 19:11
Last post: CrystalBallBroke, 2 Oct 2017 19:11
interesting someone said earlier about "if the CLIN share price rose to 1300, it would equate to a 90p QP deal price" well, that would be a 1.90 rise for CLIN, versus an 8p rise for QP, i know which i would have expected, and to be honest i may get out before the cut off point, just for the simplicity of it
Their SP is going down. What a surprise.
Started: robins, 26 Sep 2017 20:30
Last post: robins, 26 Sep 2017 20:30
Merryl lynch increased their long from 10% to 12%. Some major activity here. They obviously buy in that this is a great deal for Quantum. Reckon theres a lot more to go here. Get a statement from clinigen on thursday when we get their full year results. I wonder what that may be.
If people think QP price will go up then can it go past 82p or are they gambling that when they get CLN shares they will go up?
Started: rylidan, 26 Sep 2017 19:59
Last post: rylidan, 26 Sep 2017 19:59
There has been a jump in the long positions taken here. Have a look at the latest RNS's. Large increases in position all around.
Started: robins, 26 Sep 2017 09:17
Last post: robins, 26 Sep 2017 09:17
It is tempting now to sell QP and buy Clin shares?
Started: robins, 25 Sep 2017 20:35
Last post: robins, 25 Sep 2017 20:35
Yes the offer is for a fixed amount of clinigen stock and some cash. If clinigen were to go to around 1300p the offer would be worth 90p
Sorry to be thick but why are people buying here and how can the offer go to more than 82p. Is it because the Clinigen share might increase above £11.11
Started: rylidan, 25 Sep 2017 18:05
Last post: rylidan, 25 Sep 2017 18:05
Obviously very bullish as just increased their long from 8% to over 10%. I can see this offer being worth 90p+ by the time it tskes effect.
Started: boxerdog1, 22 Sep 2017 19:55
Last post: boxerdog1, 22 Sep 2017 19:55
I was always going to invest my cash back into clin. Its far better to put the cash in while the share price has dipped. Thats why i sold.
The 82p assumes clin is at 1111p. At 1030p the offer is only worth 78.25p. I sold at 77.87p but converted the lot into clin. When clin reaches 1111p and im sure it will it will be equivalent of an 85p offer. If clin reaches 1200 which is quite possible the offer will be worth 37p plus 48p or around 85p while my shares will be worth equivalent of 93p offer.
rylidan cannot see why you've done what you say. I'm assuming you've forgone 5p? of the 82p on offer as you sold out. Selling at 77p and with CLIN. off the 1111p used to value the offer how can this be beneficial or more advantageous than collecting the full 82p and whatever CLIN. climb to.
Started: rylidan, 21 Sep 2017 09:43
Last post: rylidan, 21 Sep 2017 09:43
Decided the Clin price is as low as it's going to go. So I've cashed in and transferred the lot to Clinigen. Currently it's more or less parity with the offer, and my 37p cash is now invested Only risk is that the offer gets rejected, but as it has BoD approval it seems unlikely Cheers all
Started: rylidan, 20 Sep 2017 07:07
Last post: rylidan, 20 Sep 2017 07:07
We are now very closely tied to the clin share price. The initial exedus of quantum PIs taking early profit was probably the cause of the dip in the clin shareprice. Results for clin on 28th sept will drive both the clin and qp. Share price. My guess is that these will be good and our offer price will exceed 90p all in. Also it may be that Chris Riggs has this inside information, and is one of the reasons why the BoD are recommending the takeover.
Last post: CrystalBallBroke, 18 Sep 2017 19:02
i'm not sure, way over my head and knowledge/understanding, but as someone pointed out, it's an interesting way to potentially buy into CLIN at a possible small discount, or as robins speculated cynically, it could be funds buying in to support CLIN as they are invested there and it would make sense to protect them. I still can't beleive we have had nothing from the BoD or Rigg directly, other than the statement in the CLIN offer RNS
Merrill Lynch now increasing their long position.
Could it be ODDO are buying on behalf of Clinigen and so would eventually vote in favour of the offer. I don't know if this sort of thing goes on or not?
Started: HFWizard, 18 Sep 2017 15:03
Last post: HFWizard, 18 Sep 2017 15:03
Some good debate below but wanted to start a new thread. From today's RNS it seems ODDO are still buying well into the 77's. Always dangerous second guessing their motive but possibly they believe 1) another bidder will emerge? 2) this current offer will not be backed by enough votes? Interested in the QP dream team thoughts??
Started: CrystalBallBroke, 18 Sep 2017 11:38
Last post: CrystalBallBroke, 18 Sep 2017 11:38
is what we got, and your telling me that the BoD and Rigg himself doesn't know this?..... the simple fact that it has been 100% radio silence from him since this was announced tells me we got taken in, and for a ride.... and he knows it, no point spouting BS when everyone can smell it, i'm sure they did ok out of this deal, the rest of us got sold short by a country mile
Started: robins, 17 Sep 2017 10:22
Last post: robins, 17 Sep 2017 10:22
Also could not Mr clever D*ck Rigg have negotiated some clause whereby if Clinigen share price reduced by a certain percentage then QP shareholders would be compensated in some way. Something just to protect QP shareholders.
Started: robins, 17 Sep 2017 10:10
Last post: robins, 17 Sep 2017 10:10
Rylidan agree that our products will have instant access to greater markets and must be good for the enlarged group. However Chris Rigg was getting excited about our product pipelines potential and value and had just released new products for licensing. Chris knew our real potential and I think he sold us out for 82p (if we get that much). Still disgusted.
Started: rylidan, 17 Sep 2017 09:46
Last post: rylidan, 17 Sep 2017 09:46
Why did all the large buys get declared late? Hiding this information should be illegal. Definitely deliberate as someone is accumulating. Don't forget Clin results out soon, and Riggs may know more than he's allowed to say. That may be why the deal is recommended. Anyway im sure QP. Products will sell more and have a larger market through Clin. Must be good for both of us.
Started: robins, 16 Sep 2017 14:47
Last post: CrystalBallBroke, 16 Sep 2017 19:14
Thanks SamJSung for your comments. I may hold, simply because for me the 37p covers my initial investment, so the shares in CLIN are freebies, but that's not the point, and i too am not convinced by their CEO, that said, he has played a blinder here and screwed us over, so, will their share price recover by the November BOE news, perhaps, and that would allow me to benefit fomr the full offer, alternatively i may do what you did and just cut and run with a small difference but much more convenience As for them shorting their own stock, it would not surprise me
Thanks SamJSung for your comments. I didn't think I would but I have changed my mind and sold 25% of my shares already at 78.2 /78.5 p per share. Gutted really as I thought QP were the real deal and that Clinigen would have paid a £1.00. Smells fishy to me.
Started: boxerdog1, 16 Sep 2017 15:03
Last post: boxerdog1, 16 Sep 2017 15:03
At this moment in time if you held 10,000 share you would benefit by £135 by sitting this out but if the CLINS SP. drops by a further 34p you would benefit by selling at the current price of 77p but by which time would not be available. CLINS probably shorting their own stock to drive down the price and at the same time driving down the price of QP. They then pick up shares at 72p instead of 82p, great business but would be highly immoral and maybe illegal if true. Wouldn't count it out the way this process has been managed.
Started: SamJSung, 16 Sep 2017 14:27
Last post: SamJSung, 16 Sep 2017 14:27
http://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/stocktube/8079/quantum-pharma-acquisition-the-logical-next-step-in-growth-story-for-clinigen-8079.html Zacks Investment Research cut shares of Clinigen Group Plc (NASDAQ:CLIGF) from a buy rating to a hold rating in a research note issued to investors on Friday, September 8th
Last post: SamJSung, 16 Sep 2017 13:31
The issues we shareholders in QP face ... are Clinigen share Price Volitility, 10% approx off their peak price of 1149p..What has driven this and other shares lower is BOE threatening to raise interest rates etc, Pound / dollar rate etc... This volitility will remain I believe until the Budget in November...then who knows what might happen... The 82p price whilst disappointing was I suspect the lowest price the instituions would accept for their holdings ... A la Henderson .. These irrecvocable commitments to Clinigen really stop any other bidder entering the frame unless it was a quick substantially higher value than 82p and in cash.. This is a very unlikely scenario..An alternative bidder would I believe already raised their heads by now and none have.. We are therefore linked to the performance of Clinigen shares which as as stated are already 10% below their peak... and this is before any small shareholder sell off when QP shares are converteed.. Listened to the MD of Clinigen on Proactive Investor talking about the QP acquisition... On a personal note he sounded very much like the Ex QP CEO Andrew Scaife (Just my opinion) .. He did mention that Chris Rigg would be joining the Management team of Clinigen ( this might have helped slightly persuade him to support the Clinigen offer- only joking he would never do that ) He will be able to cash in his Options (6 million I think at the last count and will receive both substantial cash and shares from his new employer.. What are the options... Sell up now and get 77p ish per share cash or if you are a believer in Clinigens future then let the offer run and take your cash and shares...It was the Andrew Scaife look alike / sound bites ( a very personal gut feel only) that stops me remaining on the Clinigen Bus journey.. Good Luck all.
Started: robins, 16 Sep 2017 12:26
Last post: CrystalBallBroke, 16 Sep 2017 12:59
I think we are committed, the BoD has commited their share holdings to the deal i think, and there was a reference to a guaranteed figure (percentage) that have confirmed support, plus, they have been hoovering up shares while the price is falling with their share price, and effectively doubling their saving on every purchase, so they will i am sure have enough shares/votes to force it through if that were to be required, the only way out would be a counter offer, but as they are now holding so many shares, i suspect that would be a lost cause, and anyway, no one has even been roumoured to be interested. What i still can't get is the acceptance of a deal which is within days worth less than the SP at the time of the offer, it's like they had us over a barrel, or offered something that simply could not be refused, which they sure as h3ll havent in the eyes of PI's and II investers alike, so the only think i see left is a job security deal with the BoD so they basically sell us down the river to line their own pockets.... but again ZERO communication from anyone at QP is very very poor... and why i ask? no explanation or break down of the deal and the fundamentals ? given we were supposed to be slimstreamed and a much more efficient business now, with a very good looking mid term forcast
Boxerdog and Crystal I think we are on the same wavelength. But if they have only 19% acceptances from Harwood and the board can the offer be rejected or are we committed to it? I wonder what SamJSung thinks of the offer now he has had time to digest it? Where are you SamJSung.