London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Here's my current thinking... the value of the shares not in public hands is approx. �10m right now - less than �6m if you take away the two biggest institutions. Now again, I may be being naive here, but I think it's far more likely that management would want shareholders who own the �10m or �6m worth of shares do OK from any delisting / IPO scenario - even if they never get to benefit from a $1-2bn valuation (it's be great if we do though). It would make no sense to me if, for the sake of a few million, people who are about to make hundreds of millions would risk both their personal reputations and MYT's reputation, which could see it list at a lower valuation than what it would have cost to see shareholders right in the first place.
I wonder whether someone's mopping up shares as there's mostly selling but the share price has generally held. It's very different from earlier in the year when it didn't take much selling for the price to drop.
I think you have it the wrong way round. 72.6% are not in public hands - held by current and former chairmen. Mkt value around �40m. A portion held by funds, a portion by retail investors. If they can, current payback to delist would be �12m say. Bob smith said in an interview in August, based on Indian valuation metrics, value would be about 15 times higher. So you are talking about a valuation of �600m (I kid you not). So, the amounts you are talking about, of simplying delisting and relisting (allowing all existing investors the same % stake in the new listing) is �150m+. That is a lot of personal reputation. They will be holders of a significant Indian group, concerned with Indian reputation, not here. I really thought we would get to participate in the undoubted re-rating, but I just cannot see it now - we will be shafted. For reference, here is bob smith interview, talking about the issue of UK valuation, and the possible indian valuation. This is no co-incedence, I am sure he was instructed to talk about this as the group gear towards their Indian listing. https://www.investorschronicle.co.uk/shares/2017/08/15/boardroom-talk-mytrah-energy/
what I would love to understand is whether they can offer those initial investors who participated in their �80m fundraising an opportunity to participate (or be granted) shares in the new listing in order to approve the delisting. Us retail investors would then be forced to sell our shares in the UK, and be left in the cold when the group is suddenly worth multiples of today.....
The flip to this is that the majority shareholders could easily offer say 50p a share to delist (100% premium) - this would cost them say �25m. Win for UK shareholders, and major win for them as they have already commented, they could relist the group at 10-15 times the valuation in India, with them now owning 100% of the equity. Perhaps we will see a small benefit here, just not the full re-rating...
we need examples of what the procedure has been of UK entities de-listing, and how the price has been set (at the floor, a premium etc.)
Hi Eddie - yes, this is what I'm thinking - we probably won't ever see the 15x value but I'd think they'd offer something like 50-100p to voluntarily delist rather than just steal the company away. This could be coming and someone in the know is hoovering up all the sells we're seeing recently (as the share price isn't falling much, considering). All speculation and I accept there's a big risk of being shafted though. Maybe worth a look at Greenko who were forced to delist as they got tangled up in convertible loans - and still offered shareholders a 98p per share settlement that, I think (from memory) was 100% higher than market close (after a big fall) and valued the company at approx. �160m - and it was smaller than MYT at the time. I could be wrong. Does anyone have any good / bad experience of owning shares in a company that's delisted before?
I went back to the Admission Document and they say they are subject to the Code plus the articles have been written to give the protection of a Rule 9 offer (unfortunately given the state of the share price this may be just in the 20ps). I am not overly optimistic but the more I think about it the more I think it is not going to be that easy for them to delist and screw minority shareholders. However, I would not hang too many hopes on them worrying about reputation. As a general rule Chinese and Indian companies see Western investors as sheep to be fleeced. The difference here being Kailas is London based.
What difference does kalas being in London make, already installed his 31 year old son as CEO and stolen from the company. Look as the fusion ex delist. Shareholders screwed and could do nothing about it.
Kailas may care more about not falling out with the London financial community. He is involved with some big names. It is not a show stopper reason but it may make him more cautious. He may need them in the future. I wonder also how GEC see their exit route for their equity injection as they are in much lower down.
Hounddog - are you referrig to GEC and lower down meaning their investment is in one of the trading subs - if so, it is one of these which is talked about being listed in India. So that would be good outcome for them. The issue for the UK investor in the topco, is that if the sub is listed, whilst this topco may seemingly have a valuable investment in holding a large percentage of the listed India sub, it will be very hard to extract value from it as a shareholder, as the UK topco is unlisted and thus difficult to trade the shares. Some murky offhshore company between the India trading entities and the UK topco too.
Eddie - on GEC yes I was. I stand to be corrected but I think they are in at quite a low level and not at the Indian sub level which may be listed. I wonder what their intended exit route might be and why they went into it. It may be that they wanted a toehold in what is going on in Indian renewables. I agree the problem for everyone is at topco level. Of course Kailas could just keep his stake unlisted (if he delists) but it is not very attractive for him to do so when it looks as though the company is just about at a tipping point. I think like others the threat to delist may be associated with the loan investigation ie if you take tough action against me I will delist the company. However, as discussed he needs to take Caparo with him on that and from the outside I cannot see what is in it for them. The Mauritius intermediate company is there to ensure that the U.K. listing did not result in additional tax. It is a fairly well trodden path for Indian companies, albeit there probably is not great shareholder protection at that level. The share price is creeping up albeit in tiny volume.