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Amen!
Many hydrogen shares in the US have risen 100% in the last few weeks, Bloom, Fuelcell, Plug etc etc
https://www.wsj.com/articles/renewable-green-hydrogen-gets-a-lift-in-senates-climate-bill-11660078640?reflink=desktopwebshare_twitter
lejjb, we have worked on this thread for a long time to keep it friendly and with open communications, your thoughts are interesting, thank you.
True lejjb. Thankfully I'm neither Prime Minister nor Chancellor of the Exchequer so my views on government operation or taxation policy are meaningless. Happy for light debate. We're not going to be setting the world rules here. All the best.
toneman - I get your comments, but overall this would be for a much more for in-depth discussion about macroeconomics and business economics than this forum can take. I appreciate your civility throughout - not something commonly found on this forum or social media generally!
lejjb, most of those look like the tax breaks/incentives I was talking about. Exceptions being the $500m to Solar City to attract them to a particular state, and all the payments to SpaceX I would discount as its broadly a direct supplier to the government anyway. I'm sure you will find plenty of evidence to show that governments give subsidies and handouts because that's generally what they do these days. That's still my point...it often causes companies to wait for them and delay decision-making. Long-term tax rules to drive a particular direction would be better.
Toneman: what about this then?
https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-list-government-subsidies-tesla-billions-spacex-solarcity-2021-12?r=US&IR=T
lejjb, I guess we can agree to differ on this one. I could even find an argument for Tesla that backs up my earlier point. Tesla didn't receive a subsidy from the US government, they received a loan which they paid back in full with interest. The tax credits that Tesla buyers received was arguably an approprate tax policy, also my point. The regulatory credits that ICE manufacturers had/have to pay Tesla as they don't meet the EV manufacturing quota is also an example of setting the direction of travel, rather than simple handouts, is also an example of what I was talking about.
The thing is, we are not in the right points "in the cycle" to just hope that companies will just invest by themselves, especially for such largely "unadopted" technology. Electric vehicles have only become widespread after humongous subsidies from various government including the USA - Tesla would have disappeared without a trace a long time ago without those, even though it has ended up benefiting Elon Musk enormously too.
Governments, ours in particular, don't seem to recognise that, at certain points in the cycle, the promise of grants and handouts is actually holding back implementation. Companies wait to see if there's a handout coming their way rather than just getting on and spending their investors capital. In my opinion the government should just set appropriate taxes for the general direction of travel and let companies get on with it. There's way more money that investors are willing to risk on these future developments than the governments offer up, yet it's the governments money that seems to propel, or stifle, the companies.
Ricardo, whose core business is set to decline has managed to quote to quote to do some research into the best way to make a hydrogen train.
Meanwhile in another part of the Galaxy. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/sep/17/germany-launches-worlds-first-hydrogen-powered-train 2018, https://www.energylivenews.com/2021/04/26/worlds-first-hydrogen-powered-passenger-train-to-debut-in-germany/ 2022 https://www.mobility.siemens.com/global/en/portfolio/rail/rolling-stock/commuter-and-regional-trains/hybrid-drive-systems/mireo-plus-h.html
It is as if Whitehall exist on another planet and just gives money out without thinking.