Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
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GG, your right on the finance and numbers post. Problem is that I have realised now is that oil companies including Afren were overvalued in the first place. The crude oil slump facilitated a market correction for most oil companies in the form of massive impairments. What I didn't realise at the time was that Afren figures may have looked great back in August 14 but in the end turned out to be absurd valuations.
I'd imagine any proceeds will go to the creditors, owed wages, gas and leccy bills, etc, etc. It's rare as hens teeth for shareholders to get anything back from a situation like this. Sorry. I could be wrong of course.
might as well try and find a buyer for Ebok. bought for $300m I recall. might get $30m for it we're lucky?
Finance and numbers are what you should concentate on, usually, I think, you're doing it the right way, it's easy to get caught up in the hype (pro or con), and ignore the figures. There's always the exception of course, lol.
http://www.nasdaq.com/markets/crude-oil.aspx bad time to go into admin. off-topic. but in some petrol stations you can purchase diesel cheaper than unleaded.
I'll concede that point, (admin), lol, I just think that their 'plan' (I mean their original business plan) relied on the best possible scenario in every aspect of their planning, from oil price to reservoirs being high quality long lasting without the problem of hitting water, etc, etc. When I try to budget, with the aim of achieving most favourable outcome, something somewhere screws up, lol.
GG, you might be right. But for sake of my holding I am anticipating that there is a chance they could come out of admin. worst time to go into admin with the crude price so blood* low.
I've lost a couple before now, and will probably in the future too, I think the first one is the worst, but I wouldn't want to make a habit of it, lol.
its a learning experience. you learn a lot from the losses. And if Warren Buffett can hold his hand up to say he made big mistakes. Then I should be capable of dusting myself off and try win my money back on other stocks taking this experience with me and improving etc.
To be honest with you, one thing I've come away with is to take those 'governance issues' a bit more seriously in future, they went pretty much ignored I think at the time and for a year or so onwards, since oil was rising in price, and with it the share price, people simply didn't care.
I wonder if he ever blamed everyone else bar himself for a bad investment, lol. He lost a fair bit on Tesco not so long back (last year I think he sold his holding). The thing is, you chose this company, and while it was having it's problems, you were asking questions, not making accusations or blaming everyone and his dog (or cat) for the decline and demise (my money would be on it not surviving admin, that's not deramp or deramp of any kind, and is immaterial right now, lol so I think I can get away with taking a position at this time). you threw out there a couple of points from the last few rns that people abused you for, and questioned stuff, even I had to stop abusing, and go and re-read stuff at times lol. I've found it really interesting getting you points of view, your thoughts about which way to vote (I'll admit the first couple of times you changed your mind, I was getting annoyed, until I realised how much thought you were putting into the situation). I had hoped there'd be more of this here over the last few months. Sadly,you and andy.p were in the minority of thinkers.
GG, i didn't dig deep enough in to the corporate governance and the history. I am a finance and numbers guy. I have a dangerous habit over overlooking the words in favour of the numbers. I knew it was highly leveraged but it seemed normal for the industry. And the figures looked good in August 14 and October 14. and the stuff about the payment scandal I thought that would have just been a blip. and underestimated the impact of crude slump. but I have learnt from this and won't be falling for this trap again lol
Hi Peteb, Thanks for the reply. Mine was in reply to Ainsley's post an hour or 2 earlier, so I guess he's around. I think it's fantastic that ASOG managed to group that many shareholders together - well done all of you. But per my question to Ainsley, is that it for ASOG? or will you be polling members to determine their views on potential ways forward ? Admittedly it looks like we have been backed into a corner, but that's often when 'the tough get going', so perhaps amongst those 600 are a few (legal or financial?) brains who might have an angle on how we shareholders might still emerge with something ....? I think the question is worth asking.
Also planning to make my money back on other stocks going forwards. I was a newbie when I invested in Afren. I have learnt a lot from it.. http://fortune.com/2015/02/28/warren-buffett-my-100-billion-blunder/ Interestingly Warren Buffett said he made a $100bn blunder. sort of makes me feel better LOL Going forwards my investment journey should be more lucrative.
I think gloomybare posted earlier a link to one of today's reports, citing governance and communication problems as well as questions over their ambitions (can't quite remember the quote word for word) but they had the same problems back in 2013, people got annoyed with me posting that link, lol, but to the best of my knowledge, no apology or explanation, mea culpa or promise to reform was ever forthcoming from the board at that time or since (until maybe very recently). I think that's a big flaw in any legal argument that alag will have. The question I'd pose to those claiming foul is 'were you an investor prior to 2103 ? If you were, why did you not head the warnings and sell after the revelations in 2013 ? and if you bought in after 2013, did you not understand the governance issues already dogging the company'. It's hardly ever been a paragon of virtue, ignorance of the issues, for anyone hoping for a legal 'do-over', is no basis for a refund, in my opinion, lol.
The seplat offer was below the debt level according tot he microsite. the seplat offer so was just as bad as a No vote. lol
Punch was in worse condition but survived - SH held 15% in the end. They just avoided ADM
I had your back once when boxerdog was outing you as some sort of tinker bell. However tonight you have been persistently annoying with your 'I told you so' rhetoric. Well done you for getting out. Some people here have no doubt potentially lost a lot of money. Fingers crossed we may receive something from the administration, but the majority of companies I know that have gone into admin ultimately end up in liquidation, with the shareholders receiving very little, or **** all. Yes it's a **** situation, but just don't spout the oracle boll-ox
i think most of the shorts are closed........
Hi GG, I am drip feeding into FITB. I am in VOD for dividend reinvestment. Compounding etc. Afren turned out to be big disaster. for me. I should have listened to the people warning on here but I shrugged it off thinking they were shorting he problem was that I should have asked why they were shorting. lol I didn't realise how bad the finances were as the interim results on the 31st October 2014 or August 14 accounts didn't look that bad lol But you had many warning on here back in Feb. You also had tom winnifrith, Waseem Shakhoor and Mould etc But I guess I got caught up in the hype. Still a chance it could come out of admin. Some companies do survive admin. Alstom comes to mind is an example albeit not an oil company lol
a lot going on in the background, sorry I can't give more details, but we keep fighting. by the way If any shareholder or interested party in Afren PLC can provide any factual information of any event involving the company that they feel should be reported to the regulatory authorities or has unnecessarily damaged the value of the company, please can they collate the information and forward it accordingly or instead send directly to the FCA/ SFO/SEC teams currently looking into this
The ADM have tremendously flexible powers , anything that can help save Afren they are permitted to do - with the law. What they will do first is try to establish the financial mechanisms and get a grip, secondly they make an assessment if the company can be saved and how - they can sell the entire company free of debt ( except mortgaged loans ). The current SH can still be the owners but usually the company is sold to new owners and all shares are transferred . The ADM can sell assets , as they please , .
Catch you all later off out. Manchester here i come sorted.....
Thank fck for that your going...
Do one you tool......are you just here to wind everyone up don't you have a playstation you could waste your time on or do some knitting.