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Hopefully not a huge exposure?
share value is zero now in CFD and they will recover balance margin.,i took 2 days to digest this today little better.
You'll get less than nothing . They will chase you for the other 85%
If the shares go to 0, they'll chase you for the remaining 85%.
i think game is over , i have CFD wih CMC and they have informed me that they will increse margin from 15 to 100%. so that mean i will get nothing . or luckly trading resume then there may be some thing .
You bet on a rise at "X" per point, IG think they will fall post suspension, so they want you to cover the loss hence the margin call. They are entitled to increase their margin requirement based on their view of the direction the shareprice is likely to travel. That's why CFDs are risky - you're only exposed to your deposit at first but if the market turns against you it could prove very expensive ; obviously "expensive" is relative to the £ per pound you bet. Hope this helps
CFD or spread betting? I and a few others are looking for people to cancel out our positions with if they're on the IG spreadbetting platform.
Sorry for the rookie question but I wondered if any of you could answer a question for me? I hold what many of you would could a small amount of 40k of these in an IG CFD account, I bout in a various prices from 12p down to 1.5p, but then of course they went into suspension. Since then IG have issued two separate communications requesting that the margin is increased initially from 15% to 50%, then the second from 50% to 100%. Both of which were done during suspension. I called them after the first coms to ask if I didn't wish to further expose my self what would happen and they were less than helpful. So can anyone tell me if but probably more likely when these shares disappear will I have only lost just my initial 15% exposure, or are they entitled to chase me for the remaining margin requirement of 85%. I didn't wish to increase my margin and of course was happy for them to cancel the CFD's and close them out at the 15% margin? Sorry in advance
Sorry ngaski I was meantime say dead and burried unless creditors agree an action plan allowing the company to trade. This is very rare. in afrens case as we have defaulted on all the bonds there is no credibility left so a DoA is highly unlikely
From a market perspective afren is worth £20m. Afren have not been transparent in their accounting so impossible to know what the balance sheet figure is. Cashflow: afren stated they had £274m earlier in the year and they choose not to use it to pay debt, bit rather default. Again was this true or a lie no one knows. In short afren assets and cash is far less than the £1.2b debt. So any sale of assets will not cover it. Why do shareholders get paid last: think of a shareholder as owner of the business, as sh we have to pay the creditors before we get any money from company. When a company is in admin sh loose everything so this is dead and burried.
Ngaski. We dont know the current status of cash balances in the company. We dont know the saleable value of the company assets. That depends on many factors. Basically how much a buyer would pay and will Nigerian change of control cut in. It is unlikely that the saleable value of the assets and cash exceeds the debt. The order of repayment of creditors after administration/liquidation is controlled by insolvency law and very briefly starts with secured creditors first, then unsecured. Other liabilities have to be settled, employees etc. Last of all come the shareholders. So yes, depending which asset you are talking about its BHs and banks thag get first call on the money.
Dear all, can any one tell me 1. what is total assets of Afren worth plus total money in the bank? 2. is Afren total assets + cash in the bank more than the outstanding DEBT? 3. Can anyone tell me any rules/law of stock exchange trading that says or suggest BH must be settled or paid their investment back before paying share holders in the event of co's liquidation? because it appears to me the ongoing debate here is BH must paid first then if there is anything left then the share holder would get something out of their investment
YNOTYDEAL, Thanks for your constructive respond to my enquiry about company's administration. the simple question i was asking in my previous message was that if company goes to administration can share holders get any of their investment back? it is my understanding that there exists what is called shareholders funds which can be used to pay share holders in the event of liquidation if administration is not successful I don't know how true it is that is why I am making this enquiry should the administration fail are the share holders legally entitle to any money they invested back Regards
Will not bid for Afren. at this stage it does not make sense. Also if the company is privatised the assets will not go to Nigerian government but stay in the new company. the issue here is that the board, bh and creditors plus big sh know what is happening. The rest of us are outside the house in the cold looking through the window. Waiting for Alan Linn to let us in. ALAG you have to sue the board big time, as they have done this deliberately, also they have breached aim laws as they were not transparent with their accounting.
"The board has not received any proposal from Seplat that it believes is capable of being implemented on terms satisfactory to all relevant stakeholders in the company, including the indicated value being significantly below the aggregate value of the debt of the company"
although in this example its actually less than face value lol
http://pages.stern.nyu.edu/~adamodar/New_Home_Page/valquestions/mktvalofdebt.htm
Thanks for that last post Isengard7 as it confirms what I have suspected for a long time. "so the market value of debt is going to be a lot higher than face value". See below quote - As Segal, the analyst, put it: “We would have to think of dismantling the company.”Asked whether shareholders could hope for something back after the proceeds of asset sales had been used to reimburse creditors, Segal said: “I suppose that is always a possibility, but in a fire sale situation in a country such as Nigeria, I wouldn’t be optimistic about the outcome for shareholders.” Afren's bonds are trading well below par, which suggests bondholders do not expect to recover all their money.
YC, you answered your own question. one of the components of EV is market value of debt. if memory serves from my finance lectures, market value of debt is calculated with the coupons included plus the time value of money comes into this as well. So you have the future value of the bonds with the coupon rates compounded over the years to maturity. so the market value of debt is going to be a lot more than the face value or the principal amount. hence the debt was far too expensive for Seplat to fork out for.
Hi GG. Its nice to see you on here with a more tempered tone.
With all the talk of how we can get out of this, who can to what, how much money is needed. Keep your focus on the fact we are in Administration. It can be turned round, that is always a possibility, but the value will end up with the rescuers. There is just a remote chance we may get some residual value from sale of assets but thars a big ask. We have no information to base anything on except that admin usually means zero for shareholders. The fact to be faced is the company simply ran out of money sand no one would put any more in.
Hi Ldlv. The question PeteB was answering the question.. where has all the cash gone. Your post revisits the wrongdoings of this year. Valid points but different subject. You are both right.
thanks GG, i tend to filter most of the abusers out.
it is nice to see (most) are sharing views and opinions with Isengard, maybe you'll see he has a lot to offer if he's read instead of shouted down and abused for no good reason. Yeah, wierd one, this post, isn't it ? lol.
EV - Yellowcraig, doing some deep thinking eh ? Post Recommended, if only others were as wise ! Atb ValJu