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Kalan,
The tories have indeed massively cut spending, at the cost to the poorest in society, there’s the bedroom tax, and welfare changes that have left thousands of families in debt and in many cases going to money lenders, but, they have also cut taxes for the richest people in the uk whilst our national debt now sits at £2 trillion,
Don’t you think that it is wrong that the poorest in society end up paying more for basic things such as electricity and gas than everyone else (they often end up on pre pay meters that charge more) don’t you think that a decent government should legislate to stop companies from being able to charge more for gas and electric and to stop money lenders from charging extortionate rates ?
The tories can do these things and they would help the question is will they ?
Public sector net debt as a proportion of GDP was down under Labour for most of its term. But it then jumped from 36% of GDP in 2007/08 to 65% in 2009/10.
As with the big jumps in the cash amount, that reflects the impact of the financial crisis and the accompanying recession that began in 2008. The reduction in economic activity in that period meant less in tax receipts and higher welfare spending—blowing a hole in the national finances. The much bigger deficits every year added considerably to the overall debt.
Kalan,
In 2008 before the financial crisis hit, the national debt was relatively low, under a labour government it was 49.4% take a look at it now, it’s almost doubled.
Notwithstanding my doubts about economic success from leaving the EU, the tories might make a go of it. However, in the telegraph I keep reading about how Dominic Cummings is going to do/review many things, so far these include review the MOD, perhaps get rid of the aircraft carriers etc, review the civil service and replace people, he has already sacked a number of ministers aides ( to the anger of ministers) . It was also Cummings that forced out people like Clarke, Hammond , et al ... in fact the politicians that I saw as reasonable and honorouble ( even Boris’s brother couldn’t stomach it. Also the doing away of the BBC licence, I guarantee if some kind of commercial BBC is formed we Will fur the day. I pay for subscription TV services, the BBC provides incomparable value for money with everything from Radio 4 ( the best radio station by far), superb TV and dramas ( I would cite Wolfe Hall there as an example of exemplary drama) . To lose the BBC ( yes with all it’s waste and jobs for the boys) would be singular crime against the British people. We are entering the world according to Dominic Cummings. The MPs he managed to get rid of were intelligent honourable people, whose reasoning you could listen to , not just three word slogans repeated. .... and now I turn to the horror show that he had largely helped to create, what looks like the beginning of the dissolution of the Union. I hope that what’s left of the honourable part of the tory party wakes up and has enough sense to get rid of the fowl creature.
Geng, there are many other countries suffering poverty for the same reason, too big a population. A large proportion of any aid money, in my opinion, should be used for mass sterilisation and education of people's so that there are less mouths to feed. You only have to look at the way deforestation by farmers to feed ever increasing numbers is killing local wildlife only for our benefit........bugger, now we've gorn red :-(( No more politics now.
Accept many of your points Git. Spending has been cut back. Labour spent 70 billion a year more than we were paying in tax and thats despite 40 new taxes they invented. The tories have had to cut spending. Remember the 3 countries tipped to go bankrupt in 2008. Greece UK and Italy. Greece went over the edge. Italy is still on the rdge. The UK has seen a massive recovery. The Tories get the macro and need to spend some time on the micro. Labour exagerate the micro and destroy the macro. In our nations history wehave only had 28 years of Labour government. In the last 50 years including to the end of this term we have only elected one Labour leader. Tony Blair. Why 3 times because for the first 10 years he succesfully mimicked the Tory party and then the smokrscreen fell away. Without the macro which is the strength of our natural choice of government the tories the micro targets are meaningless. Agreed they could do better. A clear focus with a tssk force and money can get the homeless situation sorted on a case bt casebasis. More people in than out of the country will however wipe out any attempt to do it.
Well Said Kalan!
Try travelling round rural Uganda and Nigeria and indeed most of Africa - that's poverty!
All our worldwide problems stem from over population so why on earth are we incentivising people to have children. There should be tax incentives for people that don't breed, instead the tax and benefit system encourages breeding.
We should stop all IVF, Child care and certainly there should be no benefit for giving birth. Didn't see any of our inept politicians campaigning for this - even the Greens.
Hi Kalan,
Let me be very clear, I absolutely believe that people who are able to do so, should help themselves, people who can gain work should work, buyback they should be paid a living wage, if I was in government I would legislate to ensure that, and to ensure that able bodied people who claim unemployment benefits would have to work in their local communities and thereby benefit society, but I would also pay them a living wage so that they would be able to pay there bills and not have to go to foodbanks.
I do however believe that some of your comments are far too broad brush, I struggle to believe that there is only one rough sleeper in Rotherham, but in any event that is absolutely not the case around the country, I walked past a woman in an underpass yesterday morning, she coughing like mad and has been sleeping in that subway for at least a couple of weeks as I’ve seen her before, she does not beg, so not all rough sleepers are the same and they don’t all have choices.
My upbringing was similar to yours, we had no central heating, never went out for meals etc. So I understand all to well, however your assertion seems to be that all those people who go to foodbanks, gamble, eat out, get there nails done, have foreign holidays etc. Which frankly is ridiculous, clearly there will always be a small amount of people who take advantage, but by far the majority of people going to food banks do not do so, I know of nurses whose pay is insufficient to pay their bills, yes they could move to a cheaper area, but then there would be even less nurses in the local hospital, which already has a massive shortfall, which of course means that the nurses and the doctors are under a tremendous amount of stress and pressure.
As for immigration, if it was for immigrants working in the NHS it would be much much worse than it is, there’s thousands of vacancies for nurses so no immigrants are stopping uk citizens from doing those jobs, there’s thousands of doctors vacancies, despite there’s being many foreign doctors in the NHS, the reason why we have so many doctors vacancies is because there are not enough courses at university and also the cost for those from working class backgrounds is prohibitive, as for the shortage of nurses blame the tories, they made it far to costly to train to be a nurse, it has absolutely nothing to do with immigration, oh, and it will be interesting to see how the farmers get there crops harvested without the foreigners who have for many years done that work.
The tories have been in power for 9 years, i haven’t seen anything improving in those nine years, the rich have got richer and the poor have got poorer, Johnson has 5 years to show that he is governing for all, and to ensure that society becomes fairer and thereby brought together rather than driven further apart.
Kalan
“The people in working class communities said no to Labour because they are a big part of the problem and have none of the answers”.
Didn’t you hear Mr Corbyn say that Labour won the argument?
:-)
Hi getinthere it seems that even the homeless are capitalists - I live in one of the poorest areas of the country - Rotherham - and we only have one rough sleeper that I regularly see. It seems they gravitate to the richer areas where the pickings are better.
I was brought up in a council estate - my mum had 3 children by the age of 20. we had noo central heating or phone or colour TV or toaster or micro wave. At times my dad was unemployed and I had to queue for free dinners at school and take a chitty to the local shop for uniform items. I have never lived in poverty - we had food - albeit bread and jam or a tin of soup and chips to share or a crisp sandwich. We had clean clothes and a change of clothes and we had coal for the fire in the living room. We never ate out anywhere - we got raw ingredients and cooked everything at home
The people in Rotherham who claim to be in poverty and visit food banks have nail appointments, hair extensions, house phones and mobile phones, drink, some take drugs, eat out regularly - daily even. Many of them gamble money away on lottery tickets, football and horses. Meanwhile I have waited outside the train station for my step daughter and observed the 'homeless person' - he collects money in the day and then is visited by a bloke who takes his money for drugs and strangely he disappears at night - maybe he has somewhere warmer to sleep - I don't know.
What's my point - the poverty figures are erroneous - there has never been a better time to live - it is easier now than it has ever been. there are some who through no fault of their own come across bad times and we must re-double our efforts for them. There are also some people living in large cities where rents are high really struggling to make ends meet despite two wages coming in. The solution for them is to move home - they cannot afford to live where they are. I can't afford to live where they are - that's why I live here where property and rent is affordable.
99% of the problems can be fixed by those supposedly in poverty themselves - we should help those who can't help themselves - not those who won't help themselves.
My parents are pesioners now - they have NEVER been better off in their entire lives. My cousin has 5 children to 5 blokes - we have paid to bring them all up - the tax payer that is - they have had a large car - free and holidays abroad - I didn't get my first new car until I was 40 and have only been abroad on holiday about 6 times. The poor people where I live think that is laughable - they go abroad at least once a year.
The Labour party has an open door policy to immigrants (can't get doctors appointments, can't get your kids into the local school, queuing at A and E, housing demand goes up so rents are high) which depresses the working class people's wages due to the constant influx of cheap workforce. The people in working class communities said no to Labour because they are a big part of the problem and have none of the answe
Wots the going price for a second hand one... used twice mother
'Ere Bob, just seen on TV the Tefal Airfyer on sale for £59 at Currys. This year's version might work better, get one for Mrs Bob this Christmas. ;-)))
But that’s not going to happen, the Tories have even less interest in the poor than Labour, at least Labour pretend and then waste a whole lot of money not achieving anything....
Thanks bob onwards and upwards for wres,
On a politically positive note; I have heard it mentioned that the Tory politicians are going to visit and pay loads of attention to
the North and midlands a few weeks before the next election.
Nothing will be improved, except perhaps temporarily the semantics Evidently, one thing being looked at is to reduce the frequency at which those with permanent disability are assessed...... I suppose if they give it more time legs will grow back, spinal columns will regenerate, cerebral palsy and downs syndromes will right themselves. Why do they reassess ?
Also, Dominic Cummings wants to do away with permanent secretaries and staff from the civil service, cracking idea that/ get rid of people who understand the field they have experience in.
So Bob, keep that allotment going mate, it’s needed and will continue to be so.
On a politically positive note; I have heard it mentioned that the Tory politicians are going to visit and pay loads of attention to
the North and midlands a few weeks before the next election.
Nothing will be improved, except perhaps temporarily the semantics Evidently, one thing being looked at is to reduce the frequency at which those with permanent disability are assessed...... I suppose if they give it more time legs will grow back, spinal columns will regenerate, cerebral palsy and downs syndromes will right themselves. Why do they reassess ?
Also, Dominic Cummings wants to do away with permanent secretaries and staff from the civil service, cracking idea that/ get rid of people who understand the field they have experience in.
So Bob, keep that allotment going mate, it’s needed and will continue to be so.
HBob
It is absolutely disgraceful that in one of the richest countries in the world:-
1. We have people who are living on the streets
2. We have people who have no choice but to use food banks and soup kitchens
3. That employers are allowed to put people on zero hours contracts, with poverty pay rates and demand that they are available for work at very short notice, and if they can’t do it they then lose their contract.
4. That employers can dismiss someone with no reason at anytime in the first two years of employment and that there is no recourse in law (other than for very limited and specific protected characteristics)
5. That people in full time work are paid so little that they can’t pay their bills and have to use foodbanks and claim benefits.
If Boris Johnson does not tackle these issues then I fear that the disenfranchised may well rebel, and we could end up seeing rioting on our streets again.
I live in a prosperous area, and yet everyday I see rough sleepers on the streets, and I know that our local foodbanks are always struggling to assist the number of people forced to use them !
The tories have a massive majority and say they are a party of the people - they now need to stop the rhetoric and act, if they fail to do so then they will reap what they have sown.
That's ok ponty, no harm done... love the honesty and humility of the posters on this board.
I wasnt seeking praise mate, if I lived to a thousand I could never repay the help, love and kindness that's been given me freely over my lifetime. I will just never be able to understand how as a nation we've allowed, accepted and endorsed the misery and wretchedness foodbanks and soup kitchens .. not to even have a plan or the intent to lift these people free is much greater crime against out fellows..
Anyhow, love to all and let's have some clear and positive commissioning and ore throughput data soon wres..
Bob would just like to apoligise to you for my coment last night,had a bit to much to drink,read post totally wrong ,sorry,keep up the good work.
Wind up....reeled me right in. Lol.
Fran, as I said. Diane is a wonderful example of a brain at full capacity. Who else would have thought to be turning out to vote in the morning wearing two odd left shoes at the photo opportunity. Absolute genius, certainly inspired my son in his voting decision as he changed it immediately when he saw it. It also caused him to say for f sake, I never seen any politician have such a profound effect on him.
..Diane Abbott?
Fran, I cant recall seeing a front bench with brains like it, ever.
Kev
Time will tell, wether the tories can be trusted and believed, I have serious doubts, but we shall see.