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That clarification will be helpful thanks elric, because whilst shampooheads as a company went into liquidation, there are shampoohead professional products aimed at teens and tweens that are very much alive and kicking
GB was not "dumbed down", as you describe. A foolish typo was corrected; that is all. My original point remains. GB is a great appointment.
Belgrano makes an essential point about Shampooheads, which needs clarity for clarity purposes. I hope I can answer this as early as Monday when I post an update that is in SA possession awaiting fact checks.
Should add Belgrano, that I am not blind to the more obvious reason for the appointment of Geoff to promote the axisbiotix ingredient in Shampoos at a suitable point in the future, but it just struck me that Geoff and his good lady first and foremost had an idea that appealed to Children which could be applied to any product and if Stuart failed to exploit that creative flair to target the Children's market across all their product ranges, it would be an opportunity lost in my book.
Very much appreciate where the priorities lie and the limitations of a small team. Just a reminder that The excitement and potential significance surrounding Geoff Bell was generated by Elric's twitter announcement "Have #SBTX investors overlooked a cracking big-hitting appointment? Geoff Bell of Shampooheads as commercial director" whilst the appointment description was subsequently dumbed down in bb posts to "Commercial Manager" in response to concerns raised that there had been no official RNS produced to make the information publicly available.
So, whilst I do not agree with elric's response that the analysis supported by publicly available material was "twisted logic", I perfectly accept that Skinbio are not yet ready to exploit the lysate contract further that enables them to pursue further application of its skinbiotix technology OUTSIDE OF THE COSMETIC SECTOR only.
Think you may have gone off on a little tangent. Shampooheads as a company ceased trading.
Yes they were backed for a while by a "dragon" that is correct.
From the study it was found that the treatment did ease up a lot of other skin conditions just like dandruff, however they were secondary benefits, it was fully recognised that with further bacterial modifications more condition targeted opportunities and even potentially better results lie begging for development with further studies to be conducted.
I think we all have to be realistic in just how much can be achieved with Stuart and his very small team. Opportunities like Sederma are brilliant as it does tie up critical manpower once agreements concluded as they do all the heavy lifting.
My thought process is fairly clear in directionally what way the company should develop, and its psoriasis working with the mighty US national associations, and Croda....Actually by all means patent/protect the rest, and build long term company value and possible future expansion routes...but I very much doubt SBTX in their current form will be doing it.
By just doing and expanding those two routed first outlined, will result in a queue of multinationals wanting the whole pie.
One things for sure, its not going cheaply.
Wow elric, of all the responses at a genuine attempt at logical analysis, that disappointing and superficial post was not what I expected. Best I say no more.
There is so much to discuss in your "brief response" I am afraid to engage in case I'm accused of something more sinister.
I'll leave you to your incorrect assumptions, twisted logic and misrepresentation of what I have said.
I do believe there has been an upward re appraisal of this stock over the last few days, prompted by some of the excellent discussions and contributions by the investors here. In my book the touch paper has already been firmly lit.
elric, my brief response to your slightly patronising posting probably requires greater explanation.
Firstly, other than a brief observation from you that taking axisbiotix also cleared up your dandruff (and as axisbiotix supply is likely to be fully taken up by psoriasis treatment it is unlikely to be adapted for dandruff products in the near term) , I wasn't aware that skinbio were working on any dedicated hair products. However, we do know that in April 20 a 12th Oral Healthcare Research and Development was launch to include adaption of the skinbiotix lysate
"The oral health programme will explore the use of different bacteria, including SkinBioTherapeutics' proprietary lysate, SkinBiotix®, for oral health and well-being. The programme will be led by Professor Andrew McBain and Dr Ruth Ledder from the School of Health Sciences at the University of Manchester.
The 12-month programme will develop and test formulations designed to support the health of skin surfaces in the oral cavity targeting disease prevention, oral care and hygiene.
The global market for oral care was $30.9 billion USD in 2019 and is forecast to reach $38.89 billion by 2027 (Fortune business insights).
Stuart Ashman, CEO of SkinBioTherapeutics, said:
"This new oral health programme builds and expands on our work in skin health and applies our already substantial skin microbiome expertise to the global oral care marketplace. This new strand to our development portfolio also presents near term opportunities.
As I replied in my later post, Shampooheads is about promoting products using characters introduced through bedtime stories "Shampooheads was designed with your children in mind.
Shampooheads was designed with your children in mind.
"Bath time is the perfect time to spend quality time with your children and Shampooheads wanted like any parent would to make this a positive experience.
We designed and created a range of hair care products focused around characters to appeal to all children.
The aim is to make children aware of personal hygiene through child friendly products and produce stories about the individual character for children to relate to and become involved with.
Our books have a unique educational link as they have some `Magic Moments´ on their back cover to encourage communication between parent and child in a relaxed and non threatening way during bath time."
Now with 23% children in England suffering from tooth decay and likely to be replicated worldwide, isn't that a more likely task to set Geoff targeting, because unless skinbio has found a cure for baldness, it looks to be a much more lucrative short term market to break into?
I rest my case for the defence m'lord and over to you elric or anyone else to kindly explain why I may be way off the mark,
I know elric but was he known for his clever mix of hair ingredients or his marketing and design skills creating fun packaging characters to appear to children which can be applied to any product?
Geoff is known for hair care, not oral health. This is a clue.
Not forgetting the lysate could also be a game-changer for oral health and well-being with the appointment of Geoff as commercial Manager, maybe an indicator that we could hear some positive news from that research programme soon.
Thank you, TT.
I guess it is worth quoting Stuart accurately. The royalty fees will be "premium double-digit for first-mover advantage." This is based on Sederma selecting or negotiating which of their most important clients (12) get to use the revolutionary lysate allowing for specific claims based on scientific evidence, which will be a world-first, as Stuart and I understand it.
To put the 12 into perspective. Many OPTI investors have been waiting for one household global to take up SweetBiotix, the holy grail of zero cal functional sugar. It would be a game-change for OPTI. SBTX has 12 SweetBiotix globals adopting its lysate into high volume antiageing cosmetics.
The lysate is a game-changer for antiaging cosmetics and marketing spin. Unfortunately, this is not fully understood by some peeps.
I published a very detailed update recently, which included the USA Psoriasis foundations advertorial promoting Axis, moreover, describing themselves are "partners." Mildly amusing because Stuart requested I not describe them as partners because it may imply something more significant. Well, guess what!!
It may be time to offer some more insight because I sense some peeps are just not understood key events. They may not be RNSed, but there are specific indicators that suggest there are imminent milestone events. I may need to spell them out. ??
Well researched TT many thanks,
Certainly galvanises my attention, when all they have to do is put into their current range which sells literally tons of cream, and royalties come rolling out as you explain. My previous price expectations were only really calculated on psoriasis deals, however once we include Croda deals it can double them, with no other outlay or advertising at all. Also time scale is really close which certainly spices things up a lot.
All of a sudden I have become interested in the subject of royalties and their calculation.
I’ve found a KPMG report and it’s interesting reading which I’ll try to summarise.
It appears that royalties are almost always expressed as a percentage of the net revenue earned from selling the product i.e the selling price after deducting sales tax or VAT as in the UK.
Moreover, royalties are seen as a form of profit share and therefore the product’s gross margin is an important determinant of the level of royalty.
Therefore, if a product has a high gross margin of let’s say 70%, any calculation of profit share or royalty would be based on sharing this 70% margin, although of course not equally.
But suffice to say, generally the higher the product’s gross margin the higher the royalty rate.
Now, which type of product in the market enjoys one of the highest gross margins?
Yes, you’ve guessed it, cosmetics products, where I know from personal experience margins can be obscenely high.
In this report, the range of royalties across all industries is reported as varying between 4% and 12% depending on gross margin.
So, when Elric mentions double digit royalties this does tally with what this report is saying.
One note of caution. In the world of cosmetics the brand is seldom the retailer as many brands sell through concessions etc. In these situations the royalty would I think be based on the price at which the brand sells to the retailer which may be perhaps half the RRP. But for me this is a great place for Sbtx to be in.
Hope you found this as interesting as I have. Happy Friday everyone
Well you know I like to get out the old slide rule a bit, as this is income that's purley on royalties.
So £10 or 10p- lets say a very conservative £1 per sale or pot. Be it sold for £20 or £120
Well looking at the creams and potions the boss has 50ml is fairly common so lets go with that one, and say our product comprises a whopping tenth of that.
Also another known, we know they are producing a 20T batch ref RNS, for the potions (not 20,000 ton ....lol) This is the first big batch.
So going by that 1 ltr fills 200 pots.
1000 ltrs in a ton, so 200 X 1000 X 20(tons) = 4M pots. .... or 4million quid
eeerrrr don't they sell a lot more than that, and isn't £1 far too little per pot, errr I forgot about the smaller batches already done as well??? and this is just the first batch..and SBTX do...nothing.
Not a bad deal at all....in fact Blo..y Brilliant.
Thats extra to the psoraisis deal, and what Elrico has been talking about.
Sry that might not display, my bad.
So sales of 1,293.9M with a 23% margin, so high.
Think another factor is actually looking at their sales volume.
Not talking 5-6 trades a day from the company shop here.??
Sederna is the flagship of Croda, these sales results might be a little old but anyone care to deduct even a small percentage, even go with 10p. They do have a full range and many are much more affordable around £30.
Oh dear, I must be in another league, the base figure I was working on 10p as double-digit.
If the retail is £100 for a premium product I'd work on £70 going to the retailer, at least, £25 would go to the manufacturer leaving £5 for royalties...where does my 10p come in to play I hear you ask well I wasn't working on £100 a pop and I go on the bottom of the double figure even If I thought it could be 99p until any figure is announced.
We all have our own ways.
Train, yes SA has confirmed double digit with Elric and TW. What that double digit is we dont know, but as you put it, yes it could be off the scale.
Some of the top creams I've been looking at that they sell are well into 3 figs, certainly not 20 to 50 a pot, but expect they do those "cheaper" ones as well. Makes those kind of royalties much more possible.
Also I've seen similar questions asking "where SA has confirmed it" before, and have a think about it, and for other products as well. Only a fool of a CEO would officially declare that say "we make a tenner a pot", because you would furnish future partners doing deals with you some wonderful negotiating information. However in my limited experience such things are often mulled over without ever being specific at shareholder meetings etc. Just my opinion of course.
I’m not doubting elric’s insights for a moment, but if we do receive double digit royalties on potentially millions of units sold for anything between £20 to £50 a pot, if not at an even higher selling price for the really premium brands, the revenues could be off the scale.
Do we definitely know the royalties are double digit? Where has SA confirmed this please? It would make my day!
It seems that sederma /Croda tie up was a natural joining of both parties with similar interests. An ideal partnership as they clearly strive to maintain a leading technology advantage in the latest breakthrough developments as can be clearly seen with their website. https://www.crodapersonalcare.com/en-gb/our-brands/sederma/about-sederma
Also their products do command a premium price as well...these aint a fiver each.???
I hope so belgrano, I just dont want investors to get ahead of themselves, me included. I would be equally happy if for example, we launched at 5k adding 5k every month. I just believe there is too much fixation on the 25k at launch. There is more than one way to skin a cat!