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Fundamentally this is the crucial issue.
Where are increasing investor returns going to come from ?
Just seen we’ve gone green! Wow, where’s it going to end? 😊
Does anyone know the inside story as to why Vivek left?
Given all the investment Ingenuity has received (goodness knows how many hundreds of millions) to have £153m of external revenue is pathetic but this cannot be all his fault. The problems were there before he joined two years ago.
Did the board disagree with his strategy and early (ish) results or did he walk?
The phrase ‘moving to a more conventional PLC structure’ gives me hope that some form of alternative listing may be in the pipeline.
After all, you don’t need a conventional structure if you’re planning to go private.
I dreamt the other night that Amazon bought THG Ingenuity. Then I woke up !
I share these views and unfortunately I really do think now I’ve backed a dud. So disappointing how this company has been managed for shareholders.
I just can’t believe all the big investors are prepared to tolerate this rubbish.
I did read somewhere that Biossance achieved revenue of almost $100m in 2022. The brand probably didn’t achieve this last year because of the financial problems at its holding company which as we know led to THG buying it.
But if Biossance can achieve anything close to $100m revenue in 2024 this will provide good additional growth for THG Beauty. Whilst I appreciate it’s not organic growth it’s still growth nevertheless so the numbers should look good. We hope!!!
I echo the sentiments here. It’s become a truly awful share. Unfortunately I’ve got far too many of them. I cannot believe the big investors are not agitating for change. What’s the matter with them?
No one, absolutely no one, allows other people to play around with their money indefinitely. Everyone wants a decent return on their investment, including the large institutional investors here.
MM doesn’t own the company, he is responsible for its stewardship and sooner or later something will give.
Mind you, I’ve been thinking this for more than a year now!
One of the challenges that will result from a separate listing of Nutrition will involve the funding of Ingenuity.
No minority investor would want to see their profit and cash flow used to fund a separate business.
How does everyone see this resolved?
APH01 - firstly, MM and the management team have created the situation we are in now.
I hope there is a master plan we are not aware of but throwing countless billions at automation with such little return needs at the very least an explanation which provides transparency and logic.
It's because we don’t have this explanation that everyone on this board is speculating and it’s also one of the reasons the market treats THG so poorly.
Unfortunately, it’s easy to see THG Ingenuity as a vanity project gone wrong. The economics of it are difficult to understand and if it had a standalone Balance Sheet I think it would look truly awful.
But I’m quite heavily invested here and my hope is that the Holland and Barrett deal is able to demonstrate a compelling USP which will encourage larger global brands to sign on the dotted line.
Massively increasing volume throughput is the only possible way of changing the outlook for this operation. We need those really big whales now!
I always feel for people made redundant, I hope they find new jobs quickly. But we have all invested in a company pouring countless millions into automation so we really can’t be surprised when redundancies are announced. It’s all about the bottom line.
I can’t see the sp changing much this week so I’ll go for 87p.
I do think the new year could be different though, with a good trading statement pushing the sp above £1 by the end of January. As always, living in hope!
The last few comments have been an interesting read and quite sobering too.
When investing I always think it’s good practice to have in mind the worst case scenario outcome.
I don’t think THG will go bust, the balance sheet is strong and we’re probably close to FCF positive.
Therefore, following any future capital event, whatever it turns out to be, what do you think is the rock bottom value we as investors should be considering? What’s the least we might walk away with?
Or will THG continue to be run as it is into the foreseeable future?
The simple fact is that when Matt chose to list the company he happily took the money. In life everything has a cost and in this instance that cost is a responsibility to all shareholders to maximise shareholder value.
To date he has failed miserably to deliver on this so it’s no wonder many ii’s and pi’s are losing patience.
I’m with Kelso and OVMK.
THG’s share price has performed so poorly since IPO the great surprise for me is that major ii’s have been prepared to tolerate it for so long.
I’m hoping more come out in support of Kelso and OVMK.
Maybe MM has been rattled by Kelso’s activist stance so hopefully this is the start of a process to realise underlying value, whatever that process turns out to be I don’t mind.
This reminds me of the fall of recent Conservative governments; first May, then Johnson, then Truss. None of them wanted to leave office but drops of dissatisfaction became floods until a change was inevitable. And once the move started it happened quickly. Maybe we are witnessing the start of the process.
What comes to my mind is that these other companies who either IPO away from London or de-list for whatever reason never seem to broadcast their intention, they just get on with it.
MM on the other hand talks endlessly about how broken the London market is but has done absolutely nothing about it so far.
Come on MM, if you don’t like the London market, for goodness sake get a move on.
I wish Matt would realise that he can have his cake and eat it.
In my view Kelso is not suggesting Matt leave the business, only that the business is radically reorganised.
The three divisions could be separately listed, Matt could be executive chairman of each and a major shareholder in each. All three new companies would have an experienced CEO with relevant industry background.
And all shareholders, including Matt, would be able realise greater value with their shareholdings, perhaps more than three times the current value.
What’s not to like?