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Gosh no, I don't want an argument about it either adv11, I just want to get to the bottom of it for all 3 of us. These new regulations are supposed to make it easier for investors to see exactly what they're paying in terms of costs, in fact it's just given the brokers more smokescreens to hide behind. We should never be having these conversations, there shouldn't be any need.
I know K, it is all way too complicated. Certainly don't mean or want to get in an argument over this.
I would have thought that all HL can take out of your ISA account would be the 0.45% of your total investment. up to a £45 a year maximum.
All the other charges we keep coming across, whether Reit, IT, or a company like GSF should not be seen my any shareholder in their personal account. It is just a warning that the company invested in will be paying that amount to management advisory companies as a fix fee, so it will come out of , say GSF's accounts as an expense, as "Internal costs".
We are only warned because as shareholders, it affects our asset.
adv11, they take a monthly fee from the cash in my ISA or SIPP. There are no deductions from my ordinary share account. It's all pretty transparent, but this discussion is helping to shine a light on it. Can you explain what you mean by "Paid by the company, not the shareholder, but comes out of the value of your shareholding.". I don't understand what you mean.
seems like it. everyone covering their backs so no one can say they weren't told.
You were right adv11. I just tried a dummy buy on GSF. There was a list of charges shown up. Guess this is the new regulations now huh?
Next time you are on Lloyds @seen_it, just give it a try. It's a new requirement that all these charges are now shown. Seems to be any company that has a KID. GSF pay some fees to a management/advisory company, so I guess these are the charges that are shown. Paid by the company, not the shareholder, but comes out of the value of your shareholding.
K - did you ask HL where that 2 percent comes from, where it is actually shown in your accounts ?
No adv11, I am with Lloyds, I bought GSF and topped up a few times but no such charges, only normal commission. I wonder why?
Yes, I'm guessing that was a dummy buy for 1,000 shares (£22.87 cost, or just over 2%?). Ongoing charge £10.22, so for 10,000 shares the ongoing cost would be £102.20, not dissimilar to HL. The 3i example I gave wasn't the best because it's defined as an Investment Trust. HL has confirmed that the ongoing charge is over 2% so I've started selling down my 3i holding.
I know that last year GSF made the dividend announcement early because they had another fund raiser at the same time. This year they got the fund raiser done beforehand, so now they have all those new shareholders to pay as well. I had seen something to say the dividend announcement and final results would be together early July, but I can't find it now. May have been part of the PB offer.
I'm fairly confident it will just be the 1p. They have always promised 7p a year with any excess going towards increasing the share price.
Afraid I don't do funds K - I used to with HL but have never even looked at them with I-web. Surely HL's charges (other than dealing) say that there is no charge for shares in a share account and a 0.45% charge for ISA's, up to £45 max ?
I've just done a dummy buy on GSF - and it has the same type of charges - you should get the same with Lloyds @seen it ?
Dealing Commission 0.43835% £5.00* IWeb Share Dealing
Stamp Duty 0.49533% £5.65* UK government
PTM Levy 0% £0.00* Panel on Takeovers and Mergers
Initial Charge 0% £0.00* GSF - GORE STREET ENERGY ORD GBP0.01
Ongoing Charge 0.89598% £10.22** GSF - GORE STREET ENERGY ORD GBP0.01
Transaction Cost 0.17534% £2.00** GSF - GORE STREET ENERGY ORD GBP0.01
Incidental Fee 0% £0.00** GSF - GORE STREET ENERGY ORD GBP0.01
Total 2.005% £22.87
I personally think that the NAV update should be ready and the dividend has also been determined. It's the 300MW project completion they are waiting for. That's my take. Whether I am right or not only time will tell.......lol
Me too! No I just wondered if they were taking more time than usual because they were trying to get clarity on the NAV of some of the newer assets. It should have all been transparent at the time of the purchase though so I'm happy to go with your version!
Hi Krustysmegma, morning my friend. I think if the news isn't good then delaying the announcement won't make it any better. Therefore I still think that it's more like what I said. Well, hope I was right...... hahahaha
adv11, this is from i-web's own "charges factsheet" giving examples of what charges investors might pay: https://www.iweb-sharedealing.co.uk/assets/costsandcharges.pdf
"Farouk the fund fan" - Farouk has £1,000 invested in 3 different funds. His annual charges are:
Online trades (3 trades @ £5.00 each) £15
Ongoing fund charge (1.11%) £11.10
Ongoing fund charge (1.19%) £11.90
Ongoing fund charge (0.86%) £8.60
Transaction cost (0.5% of each investment) £15.00
Total £161.60. This represents 5.39% of his total investment
Seems pretty similar to the charging structure on HL, except HL doesn't charge to buy or sell funds.
Hmm, there's another way of looking at this sidi. Usually companies are very happy to give shareholders good news but balk when it comes to not-so-good info. Perhaps the NAV doesn't look as good as they'd hoped? There have been some significant changes since the last update, and maybe the new assets don't look like such a good buy after all? Hope this isn't the case but as you say, by the normal timetable, we'd have had information by now. We'll soon see.
I don't hold REITs. Still think those charges are kind of off putting, whether I have to pay them or not......lol
Anyway, news seems near now. The SP is trying to climb up again after spending a little while direction-less. The BOD needs to declare the next quarterly dividend as soon as possible because last year's next quarterly dividend announcement was on June 21, ex-divi on July 8 and pay day was July 22. It's getting very late. Maybe they are trying to complete the 300MW project and announce the result, also the assets value update at the same time. So, we should be expecting all these good news very soon.
Good luck everyone!!
It certainly wouldn't be the first time HL got something wrong. I topped up on Civitas today - similar list of charges, but apart from the £5 dealing, it is Civitas that pay their management. Costs me as a shareholder in the company, but not directly.
I think it needs someone with more knowledge/experience of these things to explain how it all works. It would be lovely if i-web were providing you with a free service when the rest of us are paying significant sums in fees, I just don't see how they can. Anyone out there that can help us with this please? Perhaps I should be moving to i-web?
Thanks for the good read. Now I think I believe we only have to pay for the external charges such as stamp duty, commission and so on but not the management fee.....
Many thanks again. Have a great weekend...
This is probably the best thing to read -
https://www.theaic.co.uk/guide-to-investment-companies/choosing-an-investment-company/costs
Internal costs (ie management fees) are paid out of the assets of an investment company.
External costs are what we pay individually - dealing charges, stamp duty.
This is all the fault of the introduction of KIDs where all charges have to be shown.
As for platform charges and any annual account fees, I-web don't charge them.
Quote - In addition to the charges for buying and selling investment trust shares, you pay an annual management fee and other ongoing administration costs. These costs are normally offset by the income a trust receives from its investments, and the difference is distributed to the trust’s shareholders as its dividends.
I am afraid I still disagree. I may be wrong of course. Nothing is ever taken from me personally, it comes from the trust or fund.
Yes I get a quarterly statement, I also spend an awful long time on lots of spreadsheets tracking my investments and dividends each day, so I know where every penny has gone. If I were paying these charges, I would be quite a lot down.
In the statement there is listed the charges that each investment manager has charged, which is an estimate - but it says this -
These charges are not paid to IWeb Share Dealing. They are taken from the value of your holdings by the
Investment Manager and are retained by them.
The way in which managers work out and apply their charges can vary, and will be different from the way we
have estimated them. If you would like to know the exact amounts you have paid you should contact each
Investment Manager. We have estimated these charges using data from the Investment Manager of each fund or trust you held from 06/01/2020 to 05/01/2021, and the value of your holding at the start of each month. We don't include
months where you did not hold the fund or trust at the start of each month, or changes in the value of your
holding during a month.
I get something called an Investment Report quarterly with HL. It has a portfolio overview, then an analysis of sectors & geography, a summary of top 10 price movements, detailed valuation of each part of the portfolio, then a summary of charges followed by an itemised breakdown. Hopefully you'll find something similar for your investments.
Believe me, you'll be paying the fees one way or another! The company doesn't pay them, you (we) do. I don't know i-web at all (I'm aware of it, relatively low-cost platform) but next time you log into your account, go to your portfolio (you'll probably have to drill down to the individual account, e.g. your ISA) then see if there's a "management" - type tab or similar. You should receive a twice-annual statement for each of your sub-accounts, this should include a full breakdown of the charges you've paid. You should be able to trace them on a "transactions" tab (or similar) so you can see all your trades and any charges (normally monthly) you've incurred. If it was free, everybody would be using it.
I know seen_it, confused the hell out of me when I first saw it. They don't make things easy for us - especially HL. I left them when they introduced their fee for closing accounts, which I believe they did away with after so many people complained. Much better with I-web, even if they poor on customer service.
Oh, is it really? So you only paid for the commission but not the other charges? I didn't know. Thought I have to pay for them.......lol