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@Golden you're right there and I get accused of being out of context
Still no figures from Rag though. I also would appreciate this insight as it helps mold the view of Debs
There is certainly no love lost here. Noted danl90. I did think you must have picked up on this as you'd started FY20 and extrapolated. Seemed obvious otherwise you, and I afterward, would have just provided the FY21 number. You get a rather hard time here for what felt to me decent analysis.
Was going to stay away but I notice I'm being called "ginger something" again
"on one point the latest published t/o figure, GT didn't even realise himself it wasn't published anymore!!!"
Just to say on this there was a conversation with myself and @Pmoran where we discussed the possibility of creating "core" and "non-core" growth expectations for different brands before it even happened and then again I commented on how this was introduced on 5th May at results. So yes I did know
extracts for proof
18 Feb 2021 07:18 - "I think you’ll see investors start to look at boo in three from now on as core (boo / PLT / nasty gal and KM and any other brand that is a material grower) and then non-core (lump together other brands (like we do with oasis and warehouse atm) and then marketplace"
05 May 2021 14:05 - "I also think it's poor that breakout by brand has now magically vanished"
So hey turns out I did know hence why I did what I did and didn't just search an FY21 figure. Seems obvious?
Happy to accept an apology on this. Was no need for the offensive language really either
Hi Ragtrade. Good weekend? I spent mine in the rough. Horrid sport I should give up.
Sorry but I think you're slightly twisting it. Stating danl90 wrong for saying it was a few years ago and therefore he's incorrect and gaslighting seems very harsh as his workings were for the 18 months. So you're sort of trying to catch him and on a choice of words rather than substance of the point. It's just distracting when what was put forward was correct.
And I'm sorry, but now I've started I'm on a roll (this is why the internet isn't healthy), taking the £500m PrettyLittleThing number was useful as it was claimed by you the size of the business to support your point regarding Debenhams. It was yourself who first stated the figure. Out of context you then posted a Debenhams turnover figure which wildly incorrect to again support your point. I think someone addressing these inaccuracies is actually fair dinkum. So I'm sorry I picked back on this point but those two incorrect figures are driving your opinion. As I tried to say the prime brands have to grow at 20% a year. Cut them how you like (I would still appreciate your view. I'd say I'm broadly where danl90 is although I think I'd lump NastyGal in prime just to clear some noise). Please share your view. But what ever you land for Boohoo and PrettyLittleThing you have to add 20% per year for the medium term. After a couple of presses on the calculator you'll see the number is bigger than the whole of Debenhams not just own brand (so using the £2billion sales number).
On your other points I don't disagree but I also don't think there isn't anyone who isn't aware of the demographic of these brands. They have long been on the high street and we have all grown up with them. Nonetheless we know what level of sales that demographic turned into with a tailwind of stores. Debenhams has a very broad range and as you say outside of the Boohoo norm but it only ever got to a certain level of sales which are in total less than prime will be in 3 years. So while I applaud the bullish sentiment and insight. I just find it difficult to see how these brands get back to their size they were with stores, never mind then continuing to be bigger than prime. And I base this on performance to date Boohoo has not achieved this with any acquired brand. So other than blind optimism there is no basis? Surely shoppers of all brands who were in stores will not migrate to online? And assuming this level of migration falls as the demographic gets older the conversion of demographic to sales falls?
So yes looking for insight I just saw red from the zero tolerance to move on what were quite significant errors while calling me incorrect.
But new head of boohoo? Please tell more. I agree with danl90 that PrettyLittleThing is the star which means boohoo has to be a slower growth but we'd all like all cylinders firing.
Hi Kallu, trust you are well for a Monday as your a bit more spiky than normal today !! Any hows, just like Jon Bennett joining Primark as Head of Sourcing, who has brought in fresh impetus as well as adding vast exposure and experience outside the bubble of Dublin i expect a new HoB at BH Brand to do the same, at mo it's only a rumour but no smoke without fire but i do think that the BH Cheshire Set need someone to come in and mix it up and keep them on their toes as many of them have only ever been at BH, the one person who will have seen JB arrive at Primark and recognised this as a smart move will be JL, don't forget he knows JB well. As for the other points, i refer you to the many posts over many months that myself i and others have covered on this.
Goldenyears ok my last word on PLT t/o. I mentioned many things in my post about the Debs/Burtons/DP's Brands and why i think they are so important to the BH Group and the GT tries to pick up on one point, one point in fact that he said was many years old, last time i looked 18 months wasn't even a couple of years and i quoted the last published figure, he does this all the time, picks up on one point, often out of context and Gas Lights it. Jesus as i said it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that they won't have remained static for 18 months !!!! so if you also zero in on this ridiculous point when there were many other points i made then yes i'm afraid you are doing his bidding. You said you came on here because you want reasoned insight, great, I could u/s if you actually were aware of the Debs Brands and Burtons/DP's demo and how it has changed over the years and argued the point about PLT remaining totally dominant, or even lead times i mentioned or the fact that factories are turning away small QTY orders, soooo many things you could have questioned me on if you really wanted to get a look behind the coming SS22 season for the Group, however you didn;t you picked up on one point the latest published t/o figure, GT didn't even realise himself it wasn't published anymore!!! As i have said time and time again this is about the belief in the share and it heading in the right direction. Ask me questions that relate to what's going on with ranges or management etc etc as i have said so many times these teams will make a difference and it's now happening, if you want reasoned insight perhaps this might be a more suitable route, latest rumour btw is a new head of the Boo Hoo Brand, badly needed in my eyes to bring a fresh pair of eyes and input outside the current clique.
@goldenyears - I'm afraid this is rag. Spouts absolute unsubstantiated bullpoop and claims he has fantastic insight. You can also hope @Pmoran jumps in but that will likely be to defend rag (to the death tbh)
Ask rag how to value the business that will get you a laugh!
So is PLT £500m or not rag?
I am certainly doing no one's bidding. As I said I had wondered on this board looking for some reasoned insight. Why you can't clarify some basic reason perhaps answers my fear that this board is not a place to share insight?
Is it better I leave or will you help me find a new vent for this languishing share? It's not that I don't agree it's that your point and arguments lack basic logic.
Goldenyears, you doing someone else's bidding, congrats on your 5 posts, i'm no Plumber but i suspect your the Ginger Troll, read my post, if you don't agree with it then kick it into the long grass and move on or i'd be more than happy for you to feck off.
Sorry all I am struggling. I'd like to join the board and contribute but I can't commit as it appears that it's like trying to talk to a wall. Ragtrade I am finding it quite difficult I actually think you're on a wind up? The dodging became a rope-a-dope became a...I don't know what. I'll lay this out a final time but if you continue with this reimagining then I will be gone.
My first post was as I'd read something that I thought a very bold statement that the Debenhams brands were bigger than the prime brands, as at today. You've since said you didn't say this but there's a quote that you did but as said let's let this pass.
The original point was will the Debenhams and Arcadia brands outsell the prime brands (Boohoo and PrettyLittleThing) I, and danl90, both laid out where prime brands are roughly at in this current year. It appears you said we were both wrong as you were posting "the latest link" and you kindly included a link to the Boohoo website. You had shared that as it was to suggest our workings were wrong which means you thought the £500m correct. You said it, defended it and posted a link to it. Also claiming that results to Feb-20 is latest. As I said in a business with 40% growth results from 20 months or so, are well "years ago". It seems a little daft that you're claiming victory on this as someone used that phrase but to defend danl90, and logic, I would say that when we both presented working we started at the £500m and added FY21 and the recent statement so 12 months plus 3 months so you choosing here to be facetious or is this just deflecting from a bad statement that £500m was the correct figure to defend your argument? Can you admit you've got this wrong?
Add to that that you have shown no comments or reflection on spouting a Debenhams number that was wildly incorrect for your point yet won't make any concession. I happily stated by original Debenhams view was incorrect but there seems no reciprocation of the olive branch. Is this typical?
So please help me gain peace that I'm not losing my marbles answer the question I asked re the make-up of FY21 revenue. You're stating you're close to these brands yet your view of PrettyLittleThing was Feb-20? You stated my calculation was "all the rest of PLT figs given are total guess work" so I have provided the FY20 revenue by brand please help me understand how you see FY21 as currently claiming £500m makes you look out of touch. It is from there we can address the initial point of prime vs Debenhams and Arcadia brands. It was said you wouldn't and they called you correct.
What you are saying and clinging to I am finding frustrating. PrettyLittleThing latest was £500m and then it was FFS it's a given. Danl90 and I have based out reasoned assumption based on the growth rate of the PLC so please provide your view.
Without meaning to be offensive are you the plumber?