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@james123 - they might want to endear themselves to their Chinese overlords but as we all know in takeovers, C level people dont last longer than Rowntrees fruit pastilles and in the case of a Chinese takeover even less long !
Just going back to this - can we all get some backbone a bit here?
Ganfeng are the largest shareholder but if they want to start being petulant then lets bring someone else in.
We are still the majority in BCN - THEY DO NOT GOVERN OUR DAY TO DAY ACTIVITIES.
If they don't want to drill, become difficult, we've got the money in lets look afield for someone else simple as.
I'm bored of bowing to them at every corner.
Definite newbie !
Yep Matthew, the prospect of the bid failing (which the market seems to think it will, with the SP drifting daily since 6th May announcement) resulting in a hostile partner is a concern for me. Yet by the same token I don't think that GF will sabotage things. Just as something really good was happening a massive spanner has been thrown in the works - and cant be 'unthrown'.
I'm not seriously thinking of cashing my chips in just yet Foz, I am a LTH, albeit only since Jan 2020 which qualifies me as a newbie by some here! I'm just currently a confused and disillusioned one - in many years of investing this doesn't seem like anything I have previously encountered. I look forward to the opportunity to oppose this, at least on the terms currently proposed - you can count on that.
@ nomadicinvestor - indeed, a hostile majority holder can make life very difficult.
Not a bung per se, but it is now self preservation for them. They want to endear themselves to the new owner, will be looking for good severances packages as they'll be losing their jobs or will be negotating new terms for themselves. If the offer is rejected, Ganfeng may threaten to frustrate the process/development of BCN, resulting in less shareholder value and no short term exit for people. Everyone will have differnet motivation. One can see the options that are in place for the BOD and the incentive to cash in. If the price can be talked up, then I am all for it. Lets hope some of the shareholders can exert some skil in maximising the Opp with view to finding a more equitable price.
I'm holding and will reject but now accepted if it happens it happens. I've made a small amount of money and will move on. Heard much worse stories over the years on aim so not all bad but thoroughly disappointing.
John, you’ve always been clear that you are a lth. For all that us Pi been through you would consider to jump ship now?
Why sell! If it drops on a failed bid it hasn’t changed the investment thesis as to why you are here. You’ve also just been proven to have the largest shareholder pay min 67.5p and get rejected. That’s a good thing in my eyes.
Buy case - my issue there is the thought of adding more here, the deal goes through and I’m sat there for months whilst they develop the mine and at a rate of knots will eat away at me!
So I’m back to hold and reject deal.
It’s quite simple if the bod actually had an ounce of respect they would engage us but maybe that’s the ploy, ignore and divide us so people throw in the towel.
I really don’t think it’s a hard thing to say you could have done a share placing on the ramp in dec, at 65-70p, 20% discount was call it 55p. Let’s average the 3 months out from there at 58-60p, add the 50% premium get us to 85p-90p ish. Then spin of znwd and relinquish all holding there and give it to all of us in a new company. Gets us around £1 ish.
Can’t say what wanted but at least more acceptable.
Think we all have big questions about this. The market doesn't think its happening . Did GF really think they would win at 67.5p, or is this some sort of ploy that sadly our BOD went along with? I don't know what to do here, sell/ buy/ stay put?
I cant help thinking the BOD are on a 'bung' somehow !
The bod have probably been offered an huge sum of money or similar incentive if they giet this past those pesky retail investors moaning about the borderline legal statements made in the past. It has happened time and time again and when a company enters AIM it knows that this occurs to its own advantage. It takes an extremely unusually well principled ceo to buck (pun intended) the trend. Retails investors create the foundation but are refused to build their walls by the II and the co££upt market. Like Original ukip leader, once a trader ALWAYS a trader. Let's hope that i am terribly wrong and a good ROI occurs dor us all. Dont get greedy.
I think this is dead right. A good bunch of directors should have been out selling to people if that was their intention, and if they were not they are just plum lazy -- as an Ex sales Dir I made a lot of cash by NOT being lazy !
Thank you to everyone who responded to my posts yesterday and all posting. Can't always reply straight away , other things to do. Think Gargeng are preying on us because they think we are weak or at least our directors are.
I dont think Ganfeng would ever walk away in fact they would be fairly emotionless if the offer was rejected. Car dealers dont get all emotional if they have tried a cheeky offer on a car which is rejected. Also regarding the language of the RNS although it doesnt directly say they would accept it, the flowery nature of the way its written implies that they are happy by default. The RNS is badly written in this respect and there should have been more emphasis on words like under consideration or evaluating etc -- The BOD have themselves to blame if they are unhappy about the wrath thats being directed at them !
Walk away? Why on earth would ganfeng walk away?! They’ve made an attempt to bid an asset at a token level. They managed to achieve controlling stakes and offtake agreements for an absolute fraction of the value!!! They aren’t walking away from an asset that’s growing in value just to be spiteful. Not even sure their govt would allow that!
They increased their holding at 45p without even blinking after getting a solid ownership at 25p barely anytime before. Now couple months later paying for more at 67.5p. It’s not like they’ve gone hmm ok above 67.5 this doesn't work for us.
This is why the bod are a joke, rather than responding to us regarding our concerns and the fact pi”s are clear we will do what can to block this they are ignoring us.
Hence I keep saying we need a consortium of 5%. At least it would get us a bloody meeting to say we don’t agree with it and want to reject it. Might help change or swing m & g also.
Let’s also be clear we aren’t aiming this at ganfeng for being shrewd and fantastic negotiators v weak secker and co, but we were told matter of months ago our STRATEGIC PARTNER was there to work and benefit alongside us in unlocking so Sonera value (not taking it away).
It wasn’t long ago everyone spoke of ganfeng as the experienced miner and they would be the ones that could unlock the value. The moment that starts happening they try to take the company at a fraction!
I was here and committed for years and future years was talking about this in 2023-24 and wondering when we would see dividends to sit on it for many years to come. So I’ll do my best to fight, Iv got no issue losing but want to at least come out bloodied and bruised from it as I have been bloodied and bruised owning this for number of years!
xtw
Hi, I agree that the recommendation of the independent directors is likely and have stated so (I think the word I used was implied if you read my post), I was pointing out was that they have not yet actually committed themselves as some seem to think - perhaps they themselves are apprehensive about there being the sort of backlash that we shareholders are expressing on this board. But we are saying much the same thing.
As for GF selling out if the bid fails, as has been suggested, is that really a possibility? Between SLL and BCN they directly or indirectly hold 64.4% of the Sonora asset. Would they back away from what is already a controlling interest? Selling their BCN shares still leaves them with half the Sonora asset via SLL, or is it suggested that they would walk away from that as well? To sell their BCN shares but not SLL would leave them in a far weaker position. They are not investors like M&G, they want the mines product, Sonara is big (huge) and nearer to development than virtually any other large deposit.
I don't know the best way to proceed. I do think that at the least we must all ensure our 'No' votes count if a bid is made
jam2morrow, agree entirely with what you say. Sorry, your reply to johnpwh (re the Independent Directors recommending the Offer in the RNS) crossed with mine but we both said the same thing.
nomadicinvestor, sadly, I agree with your sentiments entirely.
johnpwh, I agree with you re Ganfeng not 'throwing its toys out of the pram' if its Bid fails. I think they're committed, if not legally bound, to see the Sonora project through to Production, but if they did have a get-out, they'd just Sell their Shares to another party who would see it through.
john, not sure that you're reading the same RNS as me! There's multiple references to the Independent Directors supporting/recommending Ganfeng's Bid on the very 1st page of the Possible Offer for Bacanora Lithium RNS, as follows:
1) The Bacanora Independent Directors and Ganfeng International Trading (Shanghai) Limited ("Ganfeng") are pleased to announce that Bacanora Lithium PLC ("Bacanora") and Ganfeng have entered into an agreement dated 6 May 2021 (the "Offer Agreement") regarding the terms of a possible cash offer by Ganfeng for the entire issued and to be issued share capital of Bacanora, other than that which it already owns, at a price of 67.5 pence per Bacanora Share (the "Offer Price") (the "Possible Offer").
2) 1. The Possible Offer It is intended that the Possible Offer, if made, would be structured as a recommended offer
3) The Bacanora Independent Directors view the Possible Offer to be an attractive proposal which they would expect to recommend to Bacanora Shareholders in the event that Ganfeng releases the Agreed Form 2.7 Announcement at the Offer Price and otherwise on the terms and subject to the conditions to be agreed in the Agreed Form 2.7 Announcement.
Believe me, john, the Directors would NOT be using any such 'encouraging' language if this was an unwelcome Offer or one which they wouldn't recommend. See the various RNSs released by G4S about Gardaworld's Bid approaches - the Board of G4S did not pull its punches!
''The Bacanora Independent Directors view the Possible Offer to be an attractive proposal which they would expect to recommend to Bacanora Shareholders in the event that Ganfeng releases the Agreed Form 2.7 Announcement at the Offer Price and otherwise on the terms and subject to the conditions to be agreed in the Agreed Form 2.7 Announcement.''
The independent directors are all directors apart from Xiaoshen Weng
If the offer is rejected it doesn't put either the directors or Ganfeng into a particularly good place. Ganfeng have a lot of other joint ventures around the world so if they started underhand tactics it wouldn't enhance their reputation. If they start playing hardball it could backfire badly.
My thinking at the moment is that they're using this period before the formal announcement to gauge the feeling of the shareholders , and then maybe adjust the offer as they think fit ? I don't think it'll go up much tho'
Interestingly the Takeover code UK markets says if greater than 30% share ownership then the holder must make an offer for the rest of the issued shares and that offer should be the highest price reached in the last 12 months - ........68p
Some big trades showing as buys after hours today
I don't really buy this theory of going slow on Sonora if GF don't get their way. They own 50% of the asset and 28.8% of BCN who own the other 50%. They want the product in a market that is starting to explode, so the party most kicked in the unmentionables if they go on a go slow is themselves.
Scan reading the RNS I cannot see anywhere that says that the Independent directors have agreed or recommended this. The formal offer depends on their recommendation but that is not to say that the decision has yet been made, even if it is implied
mmm... carrot or stick?
Whilst I recognize your 'stick' analogy, that would also hurt Ganfeng. Carrot?... I'm certain that the incentive for Mr Secker, which an earlier poster alluded to, and that I couldn't retrieve either, could be much more motivational.
Nice layout Strangerstill and NomadicInvestor. Thank you.
I am a LTH here, since 2014, in the name of my wife, and despite the roller coaster ride we have been on, was fairly sure that it would pay off well in the end., forecasting anything from £2 to £5 or even beyond. Plus our money was invested in the future, helping to give the world a greener environment. So that felt good also.
However this 'possible offer' by Ganfeng at a price of 67.5p, while it gives us a small profit, does not seem right. Whether the allegations of sp manipulation are correct or not, they are certainly possible. And we cannot see why the directors, or at least the independent directors, are backing it. Is it possible that Ganfeng has made some sort of threat if the offer falls through? Possibly going slow on the development of the mine or something like that, which could cost the directors. Any thought?
Whatever the situation, we, and our 50,000 shares, will certainly be voting against the offer.
Let us know if you get a reply - Because IR never replies.
Good letter, though
I have just sent the following to Bacanora
Dear Peter,
Following last week's announcement for Ganfeng to acquire the outstanding shares in BCN, I am writing to ask the reasoning behind the Independent Board's decision to 'likely recommend' the offer?
I have been invested in Bacanora from 2015 and have followed the company through every stage of development, with the knowledge that if everything works out, there will be a reward at the end. This has been a huge risk on my part but Bacanora has always promoted the message of how much the eventual project will be worth. I am a minority shareholder with just over 164k shares, but Bacanora is an important section of my folio. The board of Bacanora have always been very positive about bringing Bacanora into production and realising shareholder value, this has kept me invested in Bacanora.
The offer of 67.5p undervalues Bacanora especially as Bacanaora has just gone through a large placing to get construction financing. A fully funded Sonora, is worth much more than 67.5p. When cash is taken into consideration, the offer is even more unacceptable, how can the Board believe that this represents shareholder value? The Board of Directors of a public company have a primary duty to protect shareholder’s interests but the Board of Bacanora appear to have abandoned this duty.
BCN is about to go into construction, I would hope the board back their shareholders and follow through on what has been a long journey. I want to see Bacanora realise it's value for shareholders and while I accept that acquisition was always a possibility, it has to be at the right value. Sonora is strategically important to Ganfeng and they have more than enough reserves to pay a reasonable price for what will be a world class lithium producer.
Best regards
Anthony Strange