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AnneOwl. What happens when the battery has discharged its energy ?
How big of a solar PV farm would need to be carted around to recharge just a battery as you originally implied.
The AFC system has an electrolyser, lets say 25kw, which generates hydrogen and oxygen to feed a 20kw fuel cell.
The fuel cell works continuously and trickle charges the battery whst delivering power to whatever is needed on sight. Not just EVs.
As the battery is being charged there is no a large draw from the system and therefore the battery can be used to make up the difference between the 25kw electrolyser and the 20kw fuel cell as it is stored energy. Where the battery is supporting power requirement the solar PVs lets say 5kw which would fit comfortably on a few 10kw containers is used to make up the balance.
Its not quite as simple as that but I am sure you get the point. There has to be as much power available to electrolyse the water as there is generated in the fuel cell. This lets say 20% loss can be made up of 5kw solar PV which is about 16 panels.
The balancing is more complex but I am not the designer so its not my problem but that is the essence of the solar PV. Not to fully charge a 2mwh battery you would need alot more than 5kw or it would take forever.
"Batteries are great for storing energy but need to be charged rapidly.
The fuel cell can deliver large amounts of power very quickly."
This is a misunderstanding, the reason the batteries exist between the fuel cell and the vehicles are because it allows; charging vehicles at greater rate than the attached fuel cell could provide, managing the variable power draw of vehicles charging profiles without needing to scale up and down the fuel cell output, letting you run the fuel cell continuously at it's peak efficiency.
New EVs can charge at tremendous rates now, a 50kW 10ft container fuel cell would be underpowered for even one vehicle, but if it's continuously charging a huge battery then the system as a whole can charge two or more vehicles easily.
And if you have a very large solar farm, just charge the storage batteries, don't suffer efficiency losses from the solar - hydrogen electrolysis, and then additional losses from hydrogen back to electricity in the fuel cell.
Yes Musc, in this setup solar panels produce hydrogen, hydrogen powers the fuel cell which charges the battery which chargers the cars, but you still have to get 2MWh of energy from somewhere, in this case a very large solar farm.
BB, yes in this case. But if there was no fuel cell system and as AnneOwl said 'why not just use a battery'. Solar would take an age to recharge it unless you had a huge array, and there would need to be a means to rapid charge the battery.
So yes, the battery is not to be rapid charged in this system, just trickle charged from excess energy generated by the cell.
it really is that simple. Batteries are great for storing energy but need to be charged rapidly.
Solar is great in a large array but not compact as the power is not sufficient
The fuel cell can deliver large amounts of power very quickly.
Everything else works with it to balance the needs.
Believe me, this has been engineered very well.
I would guess that the solar panels will be to balance the loss in the system due to efficiencies.
Power from the battery or fuel cell system can be used to generate hydrogen. Whilst their are losses in the process the solar panels can be used to bridge that loss.
Why not just use the battery ?
Because the battery cannot be charged quickly from solar and once it has been discharged would take an age to recharge using a couple of 275w panels. That is why the system would be designed with solar panels to deliver power to compensate for efficiency. The fuel cell providing rapid power and the battery to store excess and feed into EV or Electrolyser as required.
Yes muscorum, but those little panels would only put out about 275W in bright sunlight.
I guess it will be similar to this one -
https://www.solarpowerworldonline.com/2019/11/green-lantern-solar-completes-6-7-mw-2-mwh-solar-storage-facility-in-vermont/
Musc, yes but they weren't to produce hydrogen.
Not talking it down Bananaman, now that the hype of the RNS has passed, all of an hour, it's then natural to look at the detail. If the hydrogen is being produced by solar then what is the commercial benefit to using a fuel cell rather than just solar panels and a battery, it's important to know, as the answer would tell us if this is a commercial sale or just a deployment to show off the technology, either way it's great news but clarity from AFC would be nice.
Thanks Banaman,
that's good news - "yes", in answer to your question, I did mean a stream of revenue from big orders. The big fear for any investor is that the company sells a load and then it runs up to an impressive new permanent SP. I don't think we're there yet so a few relatively risk free trades to go.
2Mwh Daz, not 20Mwh.
Depends on the system size they are feeding. I cannot answer that.
I guess the solar system will be generating hydrogen full time (day light hours) whilst the rally is set up on site and the EV chargers will be used periodically producing 2Mwh over the course of a race.
A race could be days and days so 2mwh could be generated from a 160kw system in 13 hours over 5 days for argument sake. Whilst the solar system could be producing hydrogen and storing continuously during daylight hours
What size solar plant will be needed to produce 20MWh ? This isn't going to be portable. As Anneowl said, why not just use the solar plant to charge the battery, what am I missing here ?
Surely the only thing that needs to be added to this is water.
Power for electrolyser comes from Solar,
Power for EV charging comes from Hydrogen produced in the electrolyser.
The waste water from the reaction utilised on site. Perhaps re-looped back in with a top up.
Nothing dirty and emission free. Completely.
Bananaman, where is the evidence that this is a sale ? Payment on receipt of order, but what is the order for ? Marketing rights ? AFC to provide emission free EV charger on a 1 year lease contract maybe ? AB spoke about deploying reference systems and to date we have none, maybe this is the first reference system deployment that he spoke about.
RoeninV. This is a sale.
They will receive a down payment on signing of contract.
Do you mean sales plural ? as in more than just this ?
This is just one contract from 500 enquiries that have settled on the basis that AFC have the financial resources now to move forward with manufacturing. I would expect there will be more to follow in short order.
This may drive it closer to the dizzy heights of £££s but that should not take away the significance of this 'System' for hydrogen production (Green) and power off grid in remote locations
Yep, nice little piece of news. I'll just wait to see if the SP gets to my sell figure and I'll let some go and take some profit in the knowledge it will drop back again and I can pick up some more AFC shares when it drops back. I don't think we are at the point of saying "Hold on folks this is going into the £££££s" As someone said earlier we need SALES!
Looks good but I've been with AFC far too long to set off any fireworks.
Crikey, Why do we always analyse the negatives in the RNS.
This is incredibly positive.
Why would AFC pay Xtreme E ??? A down payment for what ??
Could it possibly be for the Electrolyser and fuel cell system?
DSC. Are De Nora and their list of partners not big enough ? What about Acciona. We had worked with Air producs for years also.
Come on people get behind it.
Well done AFC - very leftfield! The entire series depends on AFC producing the goods so what better endorsement is there for AFC EV charging system? Motorway services or fleet charging should have any fears laid to rest! Finally an order - great news for all LTHs. Does that warrant setting off Stumbler's fireworks!?
DW- have to agree with you fully on this, it’s an AB special. IE - leaving open to multiple ways of interpretation. But like you still glad there is progress
“ Contract reflects an initial one year agreement with a down-payment payable upon order, and subsequent payments recognised when equipment is made available reflecting the unique nature of this showcase series.”
Are AFC paying them or they paying AFC?
Bananaman to the rescue. I agree with your assessment of the system, but it still needs some big players to be attracted to it. ITM at least have Linde and Shell invested in them.
dsc1978,
Yes, AFC are doing exactly that. They will only utilise a small amount of the £31.6m to get this order filled. They will be made a payment on signing of contract. This allows them to utilise capital in the bank to continue to scale the business.
Are they behind ITM in this process ? Yes, but not significantly behind in the fact that things have only just started to take shape for ITM also.
Do AFC now have a scalable product range which can utilise many mechanisms for fuel including electrolysers, batteries and their own proprietary system. Yes.
Is this a product range that overshadows market peers ? Yes
Production of hydrogen is just an energy store. AFC can not only produce the energy store but generate energy from this also. Hence the closed loop system they are developing for Xtreme E.
That is the significance within this RNS as well as the PR benefits