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Jazzyjim - the transcript is available on AWS, public domain for a while so no secrets being shared.
Can't post the link but type "aws copl shareholder group may 23" into google. Be warned though, it's long and full of the usual from Arthur.
I understand everyone's situation will be different, the way i see it with £40k gone then £550 to get even 10% back is worth it.
The alternative is spending the next few years checking the canadian obituaries until i can finally move on from this outright theft. I hold my hands up to all my previous bad investments, but this was something else much worse.
I still have my copy of the Ryder Scott report (thanks Unknown) which proves this wasn't a bad investment, just bad actors involved.
I disagree. There's no way i could go it alone and this money was written off, with all the stresses and arguments that causes.
My point was simply that if we win and share a payout of any size it will be allocated proportionally so why aren't the costs treated in the same way. Its a 5 min job on ex
Not pouring water on it as i'm grateful for all the efforts and to be involved but, my last post pointed out that between me and the wife we hold just over £40k but, collectively would have to pay £550+VAT (the same as £50k+ banding) this new banding means we now have to pay £575+VAT... so we'll not be grouping together on that basis.
Said it before but the fairest way would be proportional cost based on amount invested ÷ total amount in the group, after pro forma applications have closed.
Still in, obviously, but not sure why that isnt being looked at as when it comes to any payout being divided up (after costs) it will be allocated on a proportional basis. Won't it?
On the face of it, the banding system was a good starting point for fee allocation.
Having now seen the timeline for pro-forma, followed by invoicing, the data encapsulated on the pro-forma's should be the factoring indicator, not the initial interest shown by 500+ respondants.
A simple spreadsheet could remove the lower end of investors from the fees and the remainder should be on a proportional basis once the application deadline has closed.
My household (inc. Wife) will pay £550+Vat for a total holding just over £40k, that will be the same as Mr Goozee should he join with his £
I'm in, decided before the meetings but any minor doubts I may have had are gone now i've heard MC's approach.
He's an expert in this field so between his knowledge and the CAG's graft, I wouldn't want to be a current or former COPL director.
I do have one suggestion for RBM, Rodney or any other members. I've noticed a lot of well established posters just hearing about the cause and jumping back on the bb so, could one of the group please post a general call to arms across all the other LSE O&G bb's with info on how to join, website, CEC and X info etc.?
It's plausable there are many other previous investors solely on other bb's that might want to join the fight so could be worth a final push.
I've been on these bb's for years and seen far less obvious but equally damaging management shenanigans (Xcite, GKP, Afren, Desire, NUOG, Frontera) the list is endless..... but I've never once seen a fight back, it's about time.
Maidit308 - to me, the Anavio saga was about covering off any outside bids by building in access to quickly issued bond conversions through increased debt, and potential market share should it be required to fend off an outside bid, whilst the SP simultaneously gets hammered pushing COPL towards the inevitable default.
Anavio never made a play for COPL, they had plenty of opportunities to do so but instead they just kept on stumping up cash whilst shorting the socks off it, even after the default. Odd unless it's seen in the context of the bigger default picture and how it could be engineered, then it just makes sense. Nobody loses except the shareholders.
If that's not the case, i'd question why Anavio haven't launched their own legal proceedings against COPL, $25m down so we're told.
I'm curious to know the answers, or at least theories, to questions 1 & 3 i asked RodneyT yesterday (19.37) as giving Summit the benefit when they now own the assets just doesn't sit right with me.
So, any and all theories welcome from anyone to the following:
1. How else could the protagonists acquire the COPL assets apart from via a default followed by successful stalking horse bid?
3. What was the point in destroying the company from the inside if not to create the scenario we are now in?
Anavio trying to steal COPL i dont think fits the timeline or behaviours seen i.e. use of Tosca to avoid 30%+ ownership, the last $2.5m loan after the default notice was received (smoke & mirrors), 20% shares worth nothing now. They're most definitely on the hook for some shady dealing so not getting a pass but i dont see how they could've acquired COPL or why they didn't in early Dec if that was the plan. Richardson was their man on the inside, why do Summit now own the prize?
I wish i had your optimism. PK and Province were called in way before the default notice but also before the mass dilution of the extra $2.5m and resulting 3.7 billion shares.
That said, there's nothing i can personally do to affect any of it so i'll go with Summit possibly helping scenario and see were it leads. Role on June.
Could you elaborate? I'm not aware of as many of the facts as you guys and i, like many others, just feel shafted by all involved.
Anavio, installed by Arthur, short sold via insider trading as far as i can see so lock them up. What i don't see is how they could acquire COPL without Summit stepping in.
In what scenario could Anavio get away with that? If anything, they did everyrhing possible to avoid 30% ownership, which would trigger a bid situation, using Tosca.
The default was triggered by mismanagement from the inside, are you saying that despite Tom being at the helm, Arthur was clever enough to orchestrate the default without Anavio and Tom realising? If so, maybe we should all be thanking Arthur??
RodneyT - I fully respect the below is your opinion only but given you are closer to the information than the vast majority of us, could you please give your take on the following:
1. How else could the protagonists acquire the COPL assets apart from via a default followed by successful stalking horse bid?
2. Do you think the planned theft of the assets has actually been thwarted, or is this Act II of a longer story?
3. What was the point in destroying the company from the inside if not to create the scenario we are now in?
I've said previously that big money attracts the big players, and we're talking billions here, so I'd be surprised if it's really as simple as Summit stopped the game. They were the only one's who could place the ridiculously cheap stalking horse bid, without them the plan doesn't work. Arthur's still got a job and Tom was installed by Arthur but placed by Anavio.
I'm not so convinced but would be relieved beyond words if Summit actually turned out to be an honest player in this whole charade.
Stas - you raise a good point, not casting shade on you Ryan but, how does MC effectively communicate his strategy and answer genuine queries from shareholders without giving that info to the oppo?
Seems anyone who has a shareholding gets entry, i can name a few i wouldn't want on these calls.
I also read the email, hence the £15 admin comment.
Anyway, i'll wait for the Tues call as this is in danger of becoming a circular discussion and Finwit's 4 additiinal HNWI's adding another £2m loss to the pot will skew the figures once they join the group.
What might give some perspective to the number is what an average contribution would be based on the average loss of £25k. That would also likely increase people's willingness to join in as it should be under £300. We need everyone to support MC's efforts.
Maybe a weighted average contribution would be more appropriate, cut off at £1k or less were those below just pay the £15 admin fee.
My loss is in the ten's of thousands so i get duster's point about HNWI's in for hundred's of thousands also paying the same fee as myself.
Also, do we have our own KC in that group?
Duster - some might be right, if SWP isn't included in the deal then Summit either retrain all their desk jockeys to become rough necks or ship this on smartish to an O&G major.
Come to think of it, playing the victim who had no choice but to purchase COPL from Summit would be a crafty way of avoiding suspicion. A compromise deal as it were.
At this point nothing would surprise me!
If TIA1 is out there, could you do some Cayman's style digging on Yamauchi, Sidnell and social connections to any COPL exec's?
Denarius1 - good work. As they want to speak to other creditors, connect the BP rep Derek Pontin with Jinny Kim.
Email: derek.pontin@dentons.com
The OSB will have the powers to intervene before this gets rubber stamped. A stay might allow BP's case for a more adequate SISP to be heard properly.
RBM - as it seems BP have been hoodwinked along with the rest of us, a thought occurred that might be nothing but who are COPL's lawyers at present?
McCarthy Tetrault and Robert Brant were in the thick of it but I remember someone saying they had been paid in shares. If true, that might indicate them being shafted like the rest of us.
Does client confidentiality or litigation privilege still exist if you don't get paid, or were paid by alternative means that were part of potentially fraudulent activity? One to ponder.
Stas - i get your point but sharing ideas or acknowledgement of them being good one's will make no difference to the opposition. They will have top level legal reps planning appropriate responses to anything we through at them.
If we can find it, or think it, then the oppo can also. I'm not worried about that, i'm expecting a fight and dirty tricks from the fraudsters. Our collective job is to help out were we can and expose what they've done.
BP were talked into a swaps deal, there must be emails and documents of promises made, if our evidence can prove BP were lied to then we have a collective interest. There's no way BP are putting in the man hours the CAG and others have so they need us and we need them.
If the oppo find out, good. It might just make them think twice and settle with both parties rather than risk jailtime, which will come if we can prove what we know to be true.
Finwittrader - I tend to agree. There's just an undertone of suspicion being subtly injected which is why i posted the SRA link earlier.
It would be good to get clarity on any Setford involvement and the insurance against a potential lost case as given the true size of the asset value i don't trust any of the participants over the pond to act fairly.
The Wyoming Governor Mark Gordon turned up to a flaring meeting to rubber stamp an application and Judge Sidnell worked a golf swing away from COPL headquarters at Rose LLP, both on 5th Ave SW Calgary. Also, the courthouse were the AVO was heard is on 6th Ave SW Calgary 3 mins walk from COPL HQ.
Could there be social connections between the COPL executives and the legal establishment in Calgary? I'd say it's more likely than not.
Where's TIA1 and they're relentless brilliant info churning gone? Could be useful about now.