Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
Resource/laboratory service? Solvay is marketing, B2B, a patented Byotrol product. Having tried it in Europe they want to invest further in other countries. Normal partnership agreement in place. Bear in mind, no company the size of Solvay is going to apply ther resources on anything but a substantial potential outcome. Nor market speculative products unfinished in a lab.
IdeasByScience - I agree with all you say, more or less. I have said much of it. But I think the Solvay relationship is meaningful. And it doesn't take much to elevate this small company - which is its UBP. I have noticed, even some time ago, the term 24hour in products but not felt it was having much effect. My take on it though is that eventually all future relevant products will need to be able to make this claim - or better - and Byotrol will get their share of this in what is a vast market. And one notably lacking in scientific ideas. Risk free? Hardly. But internal tests are proving successful with Solvay's clients [rarely the case apparently] and an EPA gong, if successful, will give it an edge I am sure.
One of the difficulties of the professional legacy business is that when dealing with, say, food B2B it doesn't have the full range of products its clients need - just the one, tho' effective, product. Equally, the future is entirely in the consumer licencing model. Currently the legacy business generates some income to keep things ticking over. But converting to a licencing arrangement with a competing company would be good, IMO. If that is at all possible. The pressure on regs have altered a bit UK-wise but its still a big hassle for many larger 'legacy' type businesses in EU market. Solvay + US deal, if successful, will transform. Sizable assets pre distribution. Separate possibilities here, too, maybe? Once big companies start selling '24hour protection' the consumer will finally start to spot the difference - the USP.
Good to get the Solvay upgrade at the same time a the ISS/NHS downgrade. All good long-term but needing something near term too. The decision to improve the technology as a priority 2 years ago seems to have been very smart. Also, reassuring to have cash in hand for once [as good as break-even here] - another injection from Solvay/Novecare in addition. Its credible when money is exchanged. Lot of deals didn't really deal in the end. Brexit may resolve UK 'hiatus' due to food industry regs. Maybe. Looking good. AGM London - says it all.
Yeah, I could be naive for sure. The prelim results or the annual results were due in June according to Byotrol. So, all sorts of possible hitches here. Lots of reasons people sell, of course, but there may be an investor out there who also works for ISS or Solvay or the EPA administration. Insider trading? Maybe not. There should still be a bit of cash left I feel - £1M raised 8 months ago with top up from Solvay [and a research grant to boot]. Possible bad news if not total collapse! One deal gone sideways. Regulation effect of Brexit on some UK plan/deal. Part of me thinks David is trying to get the share value to match what might be the true value of the company - so might be a bit of a strategy there in timing. Or the accounts are just needing signed off by someone or other who is on holiday in the Bahamas.
https://vimeo.com/158885017 Missed this somehow - so in case anyone else did. Could hardly be more positive but stuff always goes wrong last minute - but draw your own conclusions.
QFS Sanitiser+ concentrate provide the benefits of Byotrol but doesn’t include QAC. Perfect where MRL’s are an issue. It provides quick kill and ongoing protection against FSA Foodborne Disease Strategy 2010-2015 pathogenic organisms Listeria, Campylobacter jejuni, Salmonella & E. coli. This formula has been tested to European Standards EN 1276 against bacteria, EN 1650 against yeasts and modified BSI PAS2424 residual test. QAC-free Active for 24 hours Works even at low temperatures No taint Use at 1% dilution for all food contact surfaces Now M&S Terminal Disinfectant approved
'Course, regarding innovation and materials, Byotrol has a sustainable consumer product coming along - one day -produced from seaweed. Provides the same Byotrol characteristics. Lot of seaweed where I am. Gathering it up.
I believe there is innovation as most who are involved, or taken a financial interest, agree. Whether anyone can find a totally compulsive use for it seems to be the problem. In that sense it may be a scientific innovation/discovery but unless its transformational in the real world, its not an innovation for me. Personally, its all about marketing in my view. People need to be aware of the benefits. For some of the mass cleaning products, QACs, or whatever they are called, were a significant part of the food protection in a given, now excessive, quantity - not for all industries and product types. Thus a cleaning product may not kill [and then continue to kill] all the bugs with the necessary reduced levels of QAC. Thats my unprofessional understanding. But they're on it and the scientists are there. relationships are good. And its not the future.
Lukehere: Not heard anything specific other than from IdeasByScience - but I knew these regs were a risk in food industry, including M&S, as did we all. Equally, I knew Byotrol was dealing with it better than most organisations including the food manufacturers and retailers themselves. It will resolve but its all about cash for Byotrol, having failed to meet their claims of break-even in their 'legacy' years. An alternative source of income would be an inflection point for sure. Hopefully such will come initially from NHS and soon! Your link advises of new standards set out in 2014, changes made before the majority of the Byotrol tests were undertaken so will benefit from being usefully up to date with modern day processes, procedures and expectations; thereby, providing a greater challenge to the status quo. Notable, too, that there is active interest/stated requirement in the NHS for a better cleanliness regime - for when the marketing starts.
The liquid in its dried state is retained on the surface The dried down state adheres to the surface and protects the biocides from abrasion This state continues to deliver biocidal action at point of challenge for specific time periods The fact that it was research for a paint product may explain its dry retention discovery... Sadly not a scientist. It does seem Byotrol is finding a number of new ways to apply these characteristics including on qac free ingredients. M&S/food hiatus is an industry problem rather than specific to Byotrol. This is a brexit argument on chaotic euro regs. Industry will need to resolve as a whole. M&S may need a product mix now? The big puzzle is apparently with the frozen foods industry - seemingly staring at themselves at present - who will have to rinse [defrost?] their products of the current protection prior to selling. I am guessing rinsing biocides is a partial solution for some product ranges. QAC free might help? Previous consumer partnership was profitable on patenting and licensing. Research labs and marketers are now conveniently allocated together along the same office floor in University campus. All you need. Ideal.
Yeah, the value of the tax losses has been noted, I recall, by Byotrol Board, for sure. More as an ironic view of the current valuation but relevant none the less. Licensing company much easier to invest in/merge/sell etc - seems to me.
Seems reasonable to assume the floor cleaning tests were successful since Byotrol talks of moving to the broader surface cleaning. Of course, Byotrol already knows what it's product does. It's been tried and tested formally before. There may be some peculiar reason it doesn't before as must be expected. Tests have ongoing for some considerable time. No problems so far. All depends, if successful, if Byotrol board decides to provide some information of substance or just say it went OK, more news in November. IMO
ISS April?? Revenue: DKK 79,579 million. Operating profit(1): DKK 4,533 million. Organic growth: 4.4% http://www.issworld.com/your-industry/healthcare/outcome - this page comes with healthcare video, including UK info. Again, an organisation this size and global reach must be thinking beyond its current engagement in UK hospitals, significant as that is. Hopefully, if successful, Byotrol is not involved with manufacture and goes with licencing model. But, as usual, it could all take time. Byotrol has got to pay its bills till revenue is in. Equally, such a deal as this with ISS would have a value from the start. The test is NHS guided to the benefit of NHS discussions but essentially the decision must be for ISS who have major contracts and presumably will pick their products - as I understand/imagine it. Byotrol is a cost reducing product + quality outcomes, which plays with ISS approach. Merging/restructuring the legacy business may need some extra income from another source is my guess - albeit it should ultimately be a cost cutting/resource and time saving/simplifying result. I'm holding for April at least. DYOR
Good New Year, Lukehere: Interesting thought re possible 'takeover' of some kind. Question was asked at AGM but obviously not a priority in a hardworking turnaround environment. It is fair to say that the prospects for the product are decidedly limited by financial resources. Just as a small example the Byotrol hand-sanitizer product, such as in Boots the chemist, will safely 'kill' P acne bacteria. While teenagers with acne problems cannot avoid their natural process, their circumstances might well be much improved removing the effects of this bug. Anecdotally, I know this is the case. The market is around $1/2billion, apparently but a product would need testing and marketing. So there we are. But there are a lot of other potential, more mainstream, consumer products that would be on the list if the resources were there. The real prospect of Byotrol becoming profitable is to be able to bring its full broad [consumer] potential to very large markets - and, who knows, a company already with the resources may then steps in, in one form or another. Self-sufficiency first, I think, though.
I am content that breakeven is imminent and that the balance sheet is strong. The figures look a bit challenging but there are known donations coming in this half. And I do continue to see margin improvement and focus where it matters. My principle argument to hold is Solvay. A formal deal has been signed and they are actively marketing completed products with large volume customers. While discussions seem a bit challenging or bureaucratic, I have a reasonable expectation that a small company is soon going to sell to some large ones, the contrast leading to a significant shift in Byotrol's value. The NHS deal looks like it will make it through to the end - this feels less dynamic than Solvay but again formal contracts have been signed and if sales finally begin in volume with hundreds of hospitals, including a broadening of the application to medical areas, then I believe it will be a long term stable relationship very difficult to be challenged. EPA has some time and effort to go. But there is confidence Byotrol will get there. Looking to hear of large scale partnerships. But see this as medium term in terms of actual sales. Though also as an asset on the balance sheet. A further potential is mentioned due to Byotrol, unlike many larger PLCs in this sector, making significant efforts to meet the demands of new rules regulations, turning a negative into a positive. It is probably harder for big organisations to make the necessary timely decisions to redesign their products. Certainly this seems to be the case from Byotrol discussions. Core business is OK for now and paying the bills, with continous improvements going on. But notable Solvay sales volume is what is needed, I believe, in the relatively near future to put shareholders minds at rest. With the NHS coming along close behind, also with relatively near term sales indicating strong future growth. With such in place Byotrol's increasing resources would then allow it to market and vary their products to a new level altogether. So Solvay and NHS/ISS? Look forward to good outcomes. Predicted in next 6 months. Buying shares all about timing.
Millar wasn't up to it - and, in my view, was not rigorously honest about the prospects at the time. Break even as he implied was never commg and money was running out. He also had a dreadful working relationship with Byotrol's profitable 'What if' partnership and its CEO, our current CEO. My guess is he felt his Phd didn't quite match the Oxford degree! New guy and new team rescued this company for sure. And in superfast time. And the board put their own money into it, on loan, to see it through. Now Byotrol is where Millar pretended he was going - and a whole lot better besides. Yeah, totally new team with one individual exception in administration. Still a significant risk, of course.
Hi Lukehere Love the battles you have from time to time with less optimistics. Grat fun. By all means post posts. I am holding for sure. But it is a small company - albeit around quite a while now. Discussion with Byotrol folks is relatively easy and straightforward and they are very helpful with respect to/for shareholders. CEO the real deal as are the mega qualified overall team.
"The Company has already completed (and patented) one such product for the EU consumer market and is actively marketing it jointly with Solvay to customers' The Agreement formalises an already close technical relationship between the Company and Solvay’s subsidiary Solvay Novecare, a world leader in specialty polymers and surfactants with an annual turnover in excess of Euro 2bn. It is built upon the joint development of anti-microbials, combining the best of Byotrol’s long-lasting anti-microbial formulations and Solvay’s world-leading polymer and surfactant technologies. The Company has already completed (and patented) one such product for the EU consumer market and is actively marketing it jointly with Solvay to customers. Initially Byotrol will pool technical, commercial and sales resource with Solvay Novecare in targeting Products at the EU consumer market. Over time the company expect to be expanding into other geographies, into professional markets and in due course into personal care markets too. The two parties will then be sharing gross profit from any jointly-developed products. Qs? Will a £3m T/O company contract with a E2 billion T/O company result in "a clear inflection point" for the former? What level of product sales would a Euro2B company be looking for/expecting to even bother signing up? Will it fall through as has happened in the past?
I agree it would be good to hear more about the Solvay arrangement. The Solvay execs. arrived at Daresbury the day after the AGM. Seems they are keen to move on, and making the effort. I believe that Solvay have a fundamental need for biocides in their product line but do not want to develop their own department or laboratories etc within their organisation. The two parties appear to have proven, for themsleves at least, that their products match and show some significant USPs. Byotrol is becoming unintentionally, perhaps, the recognised experts on biocide technology and regulation. The team is very committed and genuinely of high calibre, mostly from senior posts/roles in Unilever. So a comfortable fit for such a major company as Solvay. Historically, there have been some other promising deals but they have not profited. Today, however, there is a CEO with real focus on high value products that will deliver, getting rid of all distractions, and ensuring there is the marketing resources to follow through, 100%. I hope the November? update will tell us more.