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Hi BB. Don't know about leakage but (you probably know) CH4 is generally said to 12 X worse than CO2, mol for mol. Hydrogen seems very special and I don't think absorbs in the infra red (IR) region.
Another point, I think where there is Fracking, there should be spies with IR cameras ruling out leakage. I saw one guys report at a site and there was plenty leakage.
Also, leakage from fridge/ air conditioner factories> 25,000 times worse (mol/mol) than CO2. Mainly Korea, China.
@13thmonkey
Electrolyser > H2: H2 > e'
About 80% each way. Bit more actually.
Low grade heat generated can be used in some settings, eg a workshop.
Thank you !
www.fergusonmarine.com/news/funding-secured-for-uk-s-first-hydrogen-injection-system-on-a-ferry/
Not the same (but uses ITMs electrolyser) - (A few years ago, I'd been led to believe H2+diesel was tricky, but not so .I think B'ham use it in Ambulances).
@slick
I'm sure you know: Scotlands been doing this since the late 1940s.
[Remember our job is to get H2 in use. I can only see Official Vehicles, Buses etc, using H2. Please email a Councillor in your neighbourhood. But all ideas grist to our mill]
PS to Bilbo - I looked up Leeds Council. As you say, nuts. (About ten years ago, a woman I know worked there. She was told to work less, even tho she was hardly working. She wasn't specially knowledgeable about Websites but said she could easily improve the efficiency of the set up, but was told "no way!') But why not feed into the Bath questionnaire?
Just adding (I agree with all the comments) (1) a problem is that Joe Public's decision understandably turns on his hip pocket. The costs of fossil fuels have long since been paid off, so they SEEM cheap. (I agree totally that this is not whats needed to save the planet - actually, the answer there is a lower birth rate throughout the world, partly for local reasons, partly for the planet). (2) Only the Sheffield H2 station runs off wind. The others run off the Grid, same as for battery EV. (3) Overall, H2 EVs are costly. (4) Grid: electricity power losses related to distance. Can't recall exactly how far you can transmit high voltage power before it becomes too wasteful, but its about a coupe of counties.
@ andykc1962
"... generation of hydrogen has very high co2 implications."
Makes no sense. Journos sometimes wrong. For H2 production, Electricity is used at about 80% conversion efficiency, but it's used for EV as well, with less energy waste. (We ignore Car Building etc costs: those are the same everywhere).
As for the actual car, its not very cheap to run and battery EVs (as Musk said) are cheaper all round. (But as it takes off, it will get cheaper of course).
I say, H2 Power should be brought in for "Return to Base" public vehicles.
The philosophy of H2 power is another matter. Seems the least damaging overall.
@alpaca
You'll have seen the H@ Toyota trip (John O Groats > Lands End) : it was a bit dispiriting. Ignoring the lack of fuel stations, which meant they had to drive very slowly indeed, that very same effect (ultra-economy driving) STILL made it costly at £10 per kg H2.
The Tesla would have been cheaper on power and (since Tesla did a Coast to Coast run in the USA) almost certainly faster.
H2 is completely new whereas fossil fuel sand electric power has long since absorbed development costs.
I don't think cars are attractive yet. Thats why I think we should press Corporations (Return to Base).
council nonsense..
Haven't read it yet but can imagine....
(I still think we should push, as well as discussing here)
"anything in particular going on in Sheffield?"
Not specially. But the Mayor is Green party and ITM are there of course.
So if you try to write to him or a Green Councillor, it would help.
They have introduced Hybrid buses which are incredibly torquey, given the steep hills (one route is near "the steepest street in England").
Bilbo, do you have a suggestion for Leeds???
@Spice & Bath.
Dunnit, best I could. Thanx.
Could you write Sheffield Mayor/or council?
Whats the link (Bath) I can't find it?
(ps that triple posting was some crazy operation online).
Whats the link (Bath) I can't find it?
@BB
We could write to ITM but I doubt it would do other than what its doing. SpiceMerchant mentions Bath. We should write to the Councils to tell them to encourage hydrogen.
If anyone backs this, I will write.
@BB
We could write to ITM but I doubt it would do other than what its doing. SpiceMerchant mentions Bath. We should write to the Councils to tell them to encourage hydrogen.
If anyone backs this, I will write.
@BB
We could write ti ITM but I doubt it would do other than what its doing. SpiceMerchant mentions Bath. We should write to the Councils to tell them to encourage hydrogen.
If anyone backs this, I will write.
H2 Cars are a while away; they are very costly to buy and *average* poor performance - I mean by that, they burn ££ of H2 per mile unless you go slow - so even with more filling stations, they'd still make you dig deep in your pocket. "You" might find that OK, but Joe Public won't.
OTH, corporations should find H2 use attractive in their "Return to Base" services.
I am suggesting that we debate here which organisation to pester to adopt H2 vehicles: buses, police, ambulances.
It would be a City Council. BB here might suggest Leeds: I would second that.
We simply keep at it, writing to them, one city at a time.
Not ITM, but another step in the right direction:
Hydrogenics Announces New Facility in California on National Hydrogen & Fuel Cell Day [GlobeNewswire - GlobeNewswire]
IMHO, its the number of shares out, that holds the price down. If you take a common metric for upcoming companies, you might want a Price/Sales below, say, 4.
With about 300 million shares, if you want a SP of £ 0.4 and a P/S of 4 you need to sell £0.1 per share. That is Sales of £ 30M (per year) and if you want a P/S of 2 (which is more reasonable) Sales would be twice £ 30M.
So we might be getting there but in the real world, moving and upscaling will make returns less meaningful.
God knows how long I've held these shares but a can't see a quick return.
(I know people say ITM don't market themselves: I used to say that. But now I actually think they are doing the right thing. In a way, what we are up against is the absolutely enormous costs ploughed into fossil fuel over a century and now totally amortised - if thats the right word. "Paid off," anyway. We need European-style govt support)
As has been indicated on this Chat (people in Oz don’t “say”, they “indicate”) an interest has developed in hydrogen, more specifically, how to move it around. What with the amazing discovery that it can be released from ammonia, and the huge supply of it, there has been quite some rejoicing. The problem had been that in transporting hydrogen, there was “no weight”. So the truck drivers didn’t know if they had anything on board, hardly any pedal pressure was needed to climb hills, and the roads weren’t torn to bits with the axle load. No, it had to be given ballast. At first this was done be adding nitrogen in an autoclave, applying Nernst equations, and then adding water. This put the density up by a satisfactory 200%, taking into account the water. Since water is in short supply in Oz, shipping it around seemed a bonus.
But now the tricky part of this has proved unnecessary: to get the ammonia, whole townships piss into a central pot, riddled with Ps Aeruginosis, and Lo, ammonia just appears. This can then be taken to wherever hydrogen is needed.
It is still heavy, so the truckies are happy, but it has even been suggested that at some future point, it might be converted on board to power the rig.