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Have to say I have held off commenting for quite a while here – and like all holders I would very much like to see news of tangible progress. However some of the recent comment is simply naïve in my humble opinion. This always has been a high risk/high reward share and the reality is that our destiny will be the result of complex and long winded commercial agreements – most of which will be negotiated behind closed doors.
As others have stated many times this is not about selling a product. It is entirely about convincing technical and commercial teams to adopt a new process that has not been proven on a commercial scale. This requires working with partner company teams to convince them of the integrity, sustainability, benefits, risks etc of the new process.
So in the example of MSC there will be a face off MSC team dedicated to this work headed up by an MSC PM. Within MSC this team will compete for airtime amongst the ranks of MSC senior management - and will have to convince senior commercial and technical teams on every aspect related to adopting any new process. (Eg our finance team will present and then re-present finance models, options and scenarios to cover just about every single financial outcome that might be envisaged). This takes time and will constantly adjust. The Senior MSC team will include all functional heads who will need to be convinced amongst other things on the technical requirements and scalability of the initiative, the risk profile, the financial strength of the supplier and the quality and depth of vendor support.
My view is that Quadrise are simply not big enough to do this on their own – and certainly in the case of MSC some sort of partnership/joint venture will eventually emerge. To get to this point the QFI team will require deep understanding of corporate leveraging options – and any CEO, FD, COO would and should be totally immersed in looking at the likely scenarios. Assisted of course by the Non Exec team.
Andy Morrison does not seem to me like a non-exec “box ticking” governance appointment. His background has been steeped in Junior AIM capital restructure initiatives – and this may indeed be exactly what we need when working at deal positioning
Philip Hill sounds precisely the sort of person we need to manage the technical team and engage with potential partners – who will ask and require convincing on a myriad of technical and commercial realisation issues. They will not want gloss – they will want deep understanding – and a person who understands their needs. Hill has extensive experience of representing BP on JV initiatives – as a partnership director - in his previous life. Quite apart from his technical expertise.
So on that basis I will agree with 46Gillingham – we need to let these guys work all this through the projects initiated thus far. As there is no negative news at this point I will also give them quite a bit of slack.
Glad to see the local expert commercial business gurus are at it it again.
Proof of concept commercial deals are not sold. They evolve through endless highly detailed test and retest phases, with similarly endless financial models being reviewed in parallel . They almost always involve third party input - technical, commercial and financial. The last big technical deal I was responsible for took a full 2 years to evaluate plus nearly a year on the final contract . Through this period "without prejudice" payments were made - and commercialisation evolved. My board and the supplier customer reviewed progress every month for around about 18 months. All under a blanket of confidentiality agreements
That's the way it works - and traditional marketing is simply not part of the process in this highly technical world
I am very happy to let the many excellent posters get on with it regarding how to make MSAR into a viable sector solution. My focus is more on the commercials and in this case the dynamics of this business. One way or another we enter the most crucial phase in QFI history - where fortuitously the market has evolved in our direction - creating in my view a now or never opportunity.
This issue of a sales director or not is a complete distraction at this time - the challenge here is about QFI being one part of a complex proof of concept leading to a collective commercial proposition. Be it Utah, Morocco, MSC, Mexico or some other place. Indeed I really don't know what a sales director would be doing all day - apart from absorbing much needed cash. Perhaps a sales role will emerge once we have both commercially viable production in place and end users - but even then that may still be a part of a collective effort. At this moment the key players here are the technical team aided by external expert input - and changing the team would in my view create more issues than it solves. Behind the scenes there will be a multitude of complexities - and the bigger the potential partner the more voices that wish to have a say. Just the way it is.
Next week will be very telling - as much about mood music as anything else.
(And for the record I have nearly 40 years of Sales and Marketing under my belt - about 30 as a Sales Manager/Director)
From the Tomco LSE board "Sounds like Jason Miles the Quadrise Chief Executive was also at the AGM now that would be interesting"
Definitely interesting.
Need to look at his lock ins - he has no real money box here whether this succeeds or not. He has no owned shares and a relatively low stock option award - with vesting spread over many years. Indeed as far out as 2029 I think.
It is income that will drive his thinking- and maybe it is as simple as a better offer. If it was a direct competitor he would be on garden leave
Just to confirm that Looed has forwarded the communication trail to FSHG - and we are very confident that this is authentic. We are also aware that only a relatively small number of the 535 shareholders on the database read LSE - so we will on this occasion put out an FSHG communication over the weekend.
What it all means - well that is for each of us to interpret.
Message for WellOiled / Domfok
Not sure if you guys are on the FSHG database (we only have some of the pseudonyms) but we have been asked if you would be prepared to talk to another poster (who is an FSHG member) regarding the way you go about your FRR research. If you are willing to engage in this dialogue just email the fronterashareholdergroup at gmail.com address and we will make the introduction.
We have been assured that this is nothing "clandestine" - it is simply about a more joined up approach to the great research that some undertake. And it should actually result in better info and deduction being put out onto on the LSE board for the benefit of all of us
Just to say that FSHG have received the email sent to Looed. As stated previously - on several occasions - the company will not communicate with FSHG as a body, but we retain the database in the event of things changing. Looed's email was from the Company's lawyer and copied to the info at FRR address. It reads as follows:
Dear Mr…………….
Thank you very much for your message.
Please know that Frontera is indeed aware of Mr. Mamulaishvii's attempt at illicit activities, and it is taking appropriate steps in Georgia and the United States to legally address this on behalf of all of its stakeholders. Since Mr. Mamulaishvili was dismissed last year, Frontera have progressed a cleanup and reorganization of the company's management team under the direction of Frontera's board of directors. Updates will be shared in due course. In the meantime, please do stay in touch, and we will do our best to share progress without compromising the necessary temporary confidentiality required to achieve our overall objectives.
Sincerely,
XXXXXX
Make of it what you will - and lord knows how much has been racked up in legal costs in this never ending saga. Must be truly eye-watering.
Have to say I am impressed that this lot has all been sorted out so quickly - bodes well in my view
Re Directors - MW will no doubt at an age with extensive family commitments. He will see the options as his way to future capital gain. For me the fact that all directors subscribed in one way or another is a positive - and JM now has (subject to take up) well over 4 million owned plus 11.5 million in options spread over around 5 years. Certainly helps my confidence
Correct ODR - despite repeated attempts over 2 years to the company, directors and professional advisors. Conclusion - they will not engage in any way with an organised group (even one that was explicitly NOT set up as an action group in the first place). However it is equally clear that some minimal contact with individual shareholders via professional advisors is on the agenda
For the record some of us did take some informal professional advice via our own contacts just in case, regarding the options open to seek redress, and it would be daunting . So mismis and others - off you go. Set up you own action group - but in order to do so a) tell us precisely what action you intend taking, b) how you will fund it, and c) how you will engage lawyers - either in the US or Georgia (action in the UK is a non starter - there is no entity or director based here - nor any assets or registered entity). And then tell us how you will respond to the nigh on certain counteraction that would be immediately brought against you/others personally (because night follows day in the world of FRR).
We have taken the view that whatever chance there is of salvaging something from this unholy mess lies with the entity that somehow still survives - despite the repeated premature death notices.
Anyway mismis and one or two others - best of luck with your action. I look forward to your detailed proposal which I am sure hundreds of people will then be prepared to support with substantial and open ended financial commitments.
Just telling it like it is
As an aside from all the good discussion and insight can anyone shed light on some of the trading patterns we are currently seeing. This morning alone there are well over 40 trades at under a total value of £100 - with 23 at values of less than £10. And that is in less than an hours trading.
We see occasional low trades on most shares but I have to say the frequency here is baffling - to me at least. I know some will be testing the price but you don't have to complete a transaction to do that. Seems bizarre to me
ODR - yep still a rounded 4.42 billion and around 535 names on the list - which of course is in hibernation until something tangible happens. The remaining headroom was earmarked for supplier debt as I recall - and whilst not "liquid" could have been released. One thing that always confounded me was the other 8 billion or so. In recent years no-one owned up to 3% or more so no serious institutional holders - assuming they adhered to AIM rules of course. Even more baffling given the dramatic increase in share capital in the 3 years before de-listing.
FRR always was a mystery and continues to be so. My own view is that the balance is made up of a) other PIs (with many having mentally walked), b) some smaller institutional holdings (but not many) and c) significant holdings from a group who have long been close to SN. Also worth noting that for small companies like FRR (is there anyone like FRR?) it is pretty rare to get anything over 60% of holders voting - and often much less.
Some will be interested in my post on ii just now.............................
Those who signed up for FSHG will have seen the recent email regarding lack of contact - and our view to mothball the set up until some clear change takes place.
Well - I took a leaf out of our own book and emailed info@frontera-resources.com to register my desire for updates. I also explained the issue of nominee accounts - and attached screenshots of my/my wife’s various holdings. I was rather surprised to get an email back within 15 minutes - the standard wording that others have seen. However in addition the following paragraph:
“Finally, regarding your question about the process of obtaining share certificates, we will revert to you with how this can be done”.
So someone actually read it and responded accordingly. Also confirms to me that they have made a clear decision not to engage with any form of shareholder group - and they know my name well both as an individual holder and FSHG member".
Just for the record:
- we have repeatedly tried to engage in communication with Zaza and the company
- we said from the outset that we would only communicate tangible news received from the company
- not a single FSHG communication has been even been acknowledged by the Company
- we have not had one single piece of any information - let alone privileged information
- we have in the last 24 hours sent a request for an update in the light of the news re the arbitration process
- FSHG was not set up as an action group - simply a body of shareholders trying to engage collectively and objectively with the company. Thus far we have failed.
- FRR has no interests or assets in the UK, and is no longer covered by the requirements of the FCA. We have been informally advised that any levered approaches need to be in the Caymans, the US or in Georgia.
Basic facts of life I'm afraid - and I think most of the team have moved on regarding their involvement. Last word from me unless we actually get a response from the company
Very interesting Bugsy
About 3 years ago The Old Trout and I had a very informal and "off the record" coffee with the Nomad - just after the CLN deal in early 2017. And around about the time of the arrangements for commercial development agreed by the Georgians
We were left in no doubt whatsoever that the biggest stumbling block to real progress was the refusal of Frontera to arrange for the brown envelopes that had been requested. And that ZM/SN would under no circumstances agree to this - particularly given the US rules round bribery and corruption.
No further comment from me - but if I were Zaza this would be a part of my argument to the Arbitration process.
Thanks to those clarifying the terms of the financing – always welcome
Re trades over the last few weeks the drift downwards is not unexpected – we have low demand whilst we all await the next tangible update. Those who believe in the potential are pretty fully invested, and at this point there is no compelling reason to add or to invest for the first time.
The almost entirely small sells are, in my view, entirely down to PIs de-risking on the margins or simply those needing the cash (ie those who invested thinking a tangible positive would have occurred by now). There is absolutely no evidence of large holders shifting stock – be they Bergen, Hemant or anyone else.
Interesting yesterday that at one point the share was over 11% down. I assumed a large sell in the pipeline – but none appeared. In this environment sentiment drives everything – and very small trades can have a disproportionately significant impact. Time to try and ignore day to day movements for a while in my view.
Rare post from me - but if this Company is ever to succeed it will be essential to retain and demonstrate expertise in both commercial and technical remits. I have never met these guys but others who have speak well of them, and I would suggest that they are also a key part of the Nouryon relationship (who I suspect work very closely in trying to forward the key commercial projects).
Re skin in the game senior employees rarely invest themselves - but will almost certainly be recipients of share options. These aren't disclosable - but from the last Annual Report it is pretty obvious that senior employees have received substantial options. And so they should in my view - they are only redeemable on success and involve long holding terms.
Re Jason Miles, as a director, we can see that he holds well over 3 million shares and has various options totaling over 11 million shares.
The fact that both are locked in helps my nerves here - and I have to say I find today's announcements pretty reassuring, particularly after Hemant's departure (whose extensive holding I would suggest seems to be pretty well locked in at this point).
Just to say we will only update when we have contact with the company. We have made multiple attempts without success - but at some point a clearer picture will emerge. At that point we will communicate to the addresses held
Re GDPR we do not trade, raise money, run a website or share data of any sort. We are fully aware of the requirements and the only data held on the database is name, email address and size of holding. We will of course delete data if requested.
Over and out
fronterashareholdergroup@gmail.com
For any new members we need a screen shot/photo showing name and holding (or at least part of it) plus total holding. The data is securely held and not used for any other purpose - have to take our word for that!
Just for the record FSHG has 538 verified shareholders claiming to own 4.42 billion shares. Whilst we are dormant re contact at this point we are fairly sure the secure database is pretty accurate - made easier by shares obviously not being easily tradeable. So it is fit for purpose should the opportunity present itself. The range is from just a few hundred thousand shares to a few with well over 100 million each - and they all count.
We check into the GMail account fairly regularly and update changed email addresses/new members (one just added today in fact). And I wholly agree that there will be many PIs who chose not to join or simply are unaware of its existence.
Seasons greetings to all