The next focusIR Investor Webinar takes places on 14th May with guest speakers from WS Blue Whale Growth Fund, Taseko Mines, Kavango Resources and CQS Natural Resources fund. Please register here.
Pearls, I have mentioned this many times before, SG cannot sell all 80,000 because they are retaining 39,200 for themselves, out of the remaining 40,800 Showpiece have sold 12,240 - on the 1st Jan they had sold 11,751, less than 500 in 2 month with the run up to the show, their new 1 Penny offering and London2022 (which as Victoria says is a 1 in 10 [12] event - and one I personally saw little to no advertising for) which is a poor show in my opinion, having spoken to a chap who used to work at SG he said the issue is, and always has been the disconnect between Staff who like Stamps and Upper Management who don’t
Victoria and Hamilton, glad to see you two around, I think you’re going to get along with the rest of us here
Here’s my feedback from the show as a comparison:
It wasn’t that busy, especially when compared to the opening Saturday
I only saw one family at the show today and that was Mr Delcampe’s
Chinese tourists have been greatly increased like pearls said, having spoken to them most are buying because they want a souvenir from a British tradition, most are buying FDCs of any Royal stamp and British cultural stamps like Harry Potter etc
Some dealers I’ve spoken have struggled at the show compared to shows before, but it is important to remember this is not organised by the PTS nor does it have anything to do with Stampex, it’s an FIP show with more international dealers and more international visitors
“First, the 1c NFT” what NFT I haven’t seen any lol, these new stamps are just… stamps, it allows for better efficiency and forgery prevention, this isn’t done for the collector,
Also you may have seen that showpiece have listed a new item, a 1937 Edward VIII Penny, which they hilariously state in the article “following the huge success of the 1c magenta fractional ownership offering”… if a huge success is selling 14.85% of the shares then we should never have a global recession again .. ever..
Pearls I don’t think the 1c Magenta will do anything for them, having tracked the shares sold they’ve still only managed to sell 11850/80000
Nov 12th to Dec 1st was 980 shares sold
Dec 1st to Dec 30th was 638 shares sold
Dec 30th to Jan 29 ... 99 shares sold
They had a huge drop off in sales, no further emails, no further posts, nothing… it’s disappointing
And still the loophole exists to purchase the entire stamp for under half the price they paid, and because unfortunately due to overall declines in the philatelic market nobody wants the stamp, thus nobody has acted on that clause of the contract
I will be curious to see what happens at stampex, I might have to pay a visit
Pearls, the fact of the matter is they still sell that stock, and they sell it at catalogue price, it’s overvalued, same with most of their stock, yes they carry rare material (and actually you can find most of it on eBay) but it is at a premium
And if you cannot trust what you’re buying off eBay why are you buying it in the first place? If you are spending hundreds if not thousands on stamps you should really be familiar with the material you are buying, secondly eBay has a money back guarantee, it’s not anymore risky than any other dealer,
As time goes on we’re going to see a shift from Stanley gibbons being a dealer and moving towards an auctioneer who just so happens to sell lots buy it is on consignment, which is starting to happen, there’s very little money in being a dealer anymore hence their extortionate prices, when it’s just as easy to be an auctioneer and you can maker 30-40% on the final sale price
Bearishlybullish, shaky is a understatement, all collectors know that the catalogue value is over priced and the fact that Stanley gibbons are continually pushing to sell material at catalogue value is worrying, when all the other dealers cottoned on years ago that if you actually let the market decide the price stock flies out the door
As I said the other day on here “SG are only good for a select few items, I had to warn a fellow new collector the other day NOT to purchase common ‘schoolboy’/‘beginner’ stamps from them since they sell their stock at their own catalogue value.
I was genuinely shocked at how they as a dealer could be happy selling a set of modern 1970s stamps for £50 when the market rate elsewhere and on eBay is £5 (10% of the catalogue value is the standard going rate for stamps) - I feel sorry for any collector who has overpaid from them thinking that their catalogue value is true value,
It’s best to stick to eBay, Delcampe, Hipstamp and auction houses for stamp purchases unless you are in the market for stamps that seldom come up on the market of which SG might have one or two.”
Increasing the catalogue value won’t push up the value of your stamps, only the perceived insurance value..
It’s all well and good saying an stamp currently valued in a catalogue at £100 is now valued at £150, if the market doesn’t want to pay that much they won’t. Isn’t that exactly what happened when SG bought the magenta, paid £6.1m and decided out of nowhere it was worth £8m and now they can’t shift shares of it… oops
“ In the meantime, you might want to have a look at SG's sale now on, there are a range of excellent items, all with 20% off.”
SG are only good for a select few items, I had to warn a fellow new collector the other day NOT to purchase common ‘schoolboy’/‘beginner’ stamps from them since they sell their stock at their own catalogue value.
I was genuinely shocked at how they as a dealer could be happy selling a set of modern 1970s stamps for £50 when the market rate elsewhere and on eBay is £5 (10% of the catalogue value is the standard going rate for stamps) - I feel sorry for any collector who has overpaid from them thinking that their catalogue value is true value,
It’s best to stick to eBay, Delcampe, Hipstamp and auction houses for stamp purchases unless you are in the market for stamps that seldom come up on the market of which SG might have one or two.
It’s a scary prospect if they call it an investment since we all know the stamp will need to increase in value 50% for investors to break even, and that’s excluding the 2.5% fee they lose when selling… and those figures will never happen
Pearls, 2 things, firstly you mention “ the shop floor is open and seeing a lot of footfall”
I’ve been past and in a couple times since the exhibition opened and it’s been absolutely dead, I’ve been the only one in store… secondly on that matter, have you been in recently? They’ve completely changed the layout and it’s not a great stamp store anymore, they removed the huge counter at the back of store where they had hundreds of albums you could go through, and they’ve removed all the boxes of pages or packets of stamps you could flick through, it’s not a great store anymore unless you are purchasing multi thousand pound stamps of which the clientele are few and far between.
Further to another point you mention “ but I don't think anyone expected the fractions to sell out before the exchange was created” if this is the known case then as soon as the exchange comes out the price of the fractions is going to plummet, people won’t be able to resell their share for more than they paid (because there will be 10s of thousands still available at £100) so everyone will make a loss, then you have the 2.5% fee on top of that - it’s not a great look, especially when you look at the price the stamp has to resell for for everyone to profit, and all the possible loopholes there are to buy the stamp for half its current price…
Pearls you are mistaken, 50,131 fractions have not been sold, 10,931 have been sold, and 39,200 are being kept by Stanley Gibbons
Also, mildly worryingly, SG won’t vote at all when it comes to sale, so it’s 60% of the 51% remaining, so only 30% of the owners need to vote
The max you can own is 10%
3 rich friends could buy 10% each for 800k and another friend can put an offer in for £1million
Since those 3 friends are the majority voting power they can accept that offer,
Allowing them to buy the stamp between the 4 of them for 3.4million ??????
If I had the money I would 100% orchestrate that just to mug them off
Is anyone else concerned that they’ve managed to sell a early 50,000 pieces despite it being impossible to make a return on the purchase? I can’t see 50,000 units being sold as a novelty?
Actually as I was typing the above I’ve just noticed the asterisks on the count. If you look at the asterisk next to pieces owned, and the description below, they seem to be counting the pieces that they are retaining for themselves - it turns out they are holding 49% so 39,200 are being kept, therefore only 10,091 have sold, aka £925k (at discount price, and some sold full price) considerably than the £5mil initially thought
Carpe, I doubt anyone bought with the aim to make a quick buck - it’ll be nearly impossible to and most ‘investors’ will lose a lot of money - if people have bought to try and make money they obviously haven’t looked at the maths and numbers in enough detail! ??
Pears you won’t see that £90 again if you buy at discount, bathe stamp will need to sell for 35% on the highest ever price or 50% on the current price to break even - if you want to make 20% the value of the stamp will need to rise 75% on current sale price…
As much as I love stamps, the value of this stamp will never rise 75%
“ Why is there no update on the 1c magenta and the fractional ownership? What about the Nfts?”
There are no NFTs Pearl, there never was going to be NFTs , that was speculation from the start.
“Are you selling NFT’s?
When you purchase pieces of an item on Showpiece you will receive a digital token representing ownership. An immutable digital ledger that uses cryptographic verification will maintain all records of ownership and past transactions. However, unlike NFT’s, our digital tokens are backed by tangible items and have a secure and established legal structure underpinning them.”
Very fluffy way to say ‘No, we’re not selling NFTs’
The magenta is going on display for a limited time with limited hours - presumably due to the insurance costs and what their insurance company will allow - I don’t see the footfall generated being increased compared to their usual traffic, and not in any significant way to boost traffic
SG shares continue to drop, not just because there is mismanagement, but also because they are incredibly expensive to purchase from, yes, you have the safety of a lifetime authenticity guarantee, but for stamps under £500 the buyer should be experienced enough in their field to recognise forgeries and be alert to the signs of fake stamps in general, in which case they will (and should if they don’t already) buy from cheaper dealers, webstores, local auctions and societies, where you can get equally rare and fine stamps for considerably less - Stanley Gibbons is a high end store and should never be the go to store for the average collector - of which numbers are few and far between as is these days…
While I agree with the notions that the current SG (and their owners) business moves are poor, I do not agree that the notion that philately is dying is true.
As a young collector myself I’ve seen an uptake in youth philately in the past 5-10 years, admittedly nowhere near the extent of the 60s,70s, 80s but so far the 2020s have been stronger than 2010,
Also at least in my own personal collection I have seen gains of 10,20,30%+ and profits accordingly,
The hobby isn’t dying, but bad publicity will surely drive people away who may have had an inclination to dabble in collecting from starting
My concern is that it’s an automatic loss of money for any investor looking to buy the fractional shares
SG bought the stamp for £6.1 million including commission
They’ve said the total of all shares equals £8million, giving Stanley gibbons a £1.9 million profit as is,
But if the stamp sells for £6.1million again, the investors lose out by £1.9million
I assume Stanley gibbons won’t charge themselves a sellers premium (but who knows as it would skim off extra money for them when it comes to market)
But the value of the stamp including a modest 15% buyers premium would need to reach £9.415million or $12.81 million for the £8million in sold shares to break even for investors, which is a 50% increase in the price of the stamp, considering when Stanley gibbons bought it the price of the stamp had dropped roughly 12.5% - the sale price needed to break even is still an over 35% increase on the highest price it’s ever sold for, IMO its a loss from day 1 - I have not seen this mentioned or discussed anywhere before but based on the price of the stamp compared to the shares it’s fundamentally a non starter…