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Peter Higgins 00:17
Hello and welcome to this Investing Matters podcast. My name is Peter Higgins. I have the huge privilege today to speak with Mike McGeever, serial entrepreneur, charity champion, business advisor, business owner, and professional investor.
Mike, firstly, I want to say it's absolutely fantastic to see you in such rude health with a lovely tan. Given your health scare and operation last year mate, may the force of staying in rude health my friend.
Mike McGeever 00:46
Thanks, Peter. Thanks very much.
Peter Higgins 00:48
Right. So Mike, you're in Australia, hence the additional tan there in Perth, Australia, and a temporary base.
Have you been blessed with the arrival of your sixth grandchild or not yet?
Mike McGeever 00:46
No. Still waiting, Peter. It's this week or next? Whenever she's ready. But, you know, we're all on standby. So we're lined up for the babysitting.
Peter Higgins 01:07
Cool. Okay, right. We're going to start this interview if I may, by asking you to speak as a professional investor. We have institutional investors that listen to this podcast, high net worth individuals and private investors as well, Mike. So I want to ask you what's been the main learnings and principles you attained from your first career in the Navy, what's been your learnings that you've still attained to yourself at the moment?
Mike McGeever 01:11
Well, I try and apply building a brick wall behind me Peter. That's the key thing, if I can make sure if I'm going to fall back at all, I don't want to fall too far.
There are exceptions to that sometimes. And one can prefix that probably with the word greedy.
However, there are situations where one can over expose in a particular share, or genre that does happen to the best of us, who basically trying to build a brick wall behind so we don't fall back too far.
Peter Higgins 02:00
Brilliant reply. Thank you. Now, obviously, if you had a period of time in the Navy, what investment advice or savings advice were you given? If any, you went in there as a very young boy.
Mike McGeever 02:11
None, to be honest with you.
I mean, the pay packets we used to get on a fortnightly basis, we used to queue up for salute for and then receive. And I can tell you 90% went to my mother.
So there was no investment advice or savings advice at all. Hey, I'm a better person for that, I think.
Peter Higgins 02:29
Thank you for that. Now, like after the Navy, we spent a time looking and do various other bits and pieces. But the main thing I want to speak about after the Navy was the time you spent a little bit of time about Dubai business got into after the Navy.
Its growth of that business scale and global reach and the eventual exit of that business, If you can share a little bit about that with me, please?
Mike McGeever 02:52
Yeah, absolutely. UK was very interesting. But it became obvious to me that Dubai and UAE where I had visited in the Navy was an up and coming place sponsorship of Chelsea of by Emirates originally, it was a great market for this country wanted to take a position and be something so I flew over to Dubai beginning of the 2000s had a look at it and it just felt right to be honest, everybody's mind was in the right place.
Everybody's focus was in the right direction.
So I adopting a principle which IBM had had previously, when in 91. Lou Gerstner broke it up, I just took the view that I could talk to Emirates and see whether or not they would be interested in having their brand, which was clearly valuable, used or utilised by operators that would come in and provide non-core services to them.
This was accepted, which I'm delighted to say. And we created a security business, airport services business and very much cash in transit, cash management centres, etc, etc.
Business, which came on paper under the umbrella of Emirates, and it was operated by myself and a super team.
So that business started with zero employees. When I sold it, which was in 2015. I sold it with just over 55,000 staff highlights apart from the sunshine highlights, to be honest with you was having so many employees of different nationalities and just making a huge positive difference with a lot of the CSR stuff that we were doing particularly with our Indian employees, Bangladeshis, etc.
It was great and lots of visits to India, lots of visits worldwide, moving $2 billion a day is no small activity, and making sure that every note is legal, not a counterfeit, etc.
That really gave us a lot of focus, but wonderful business 13 years, best 13 years of my life workwise for sure.
You know, I left behind a very, very happy ship.
Peter Higgins 04:53
Brilliant. That's a fantastic example of nurturing something from you know, from the startup sort of stage, isn't it to make it global?
Mike McGeever 05:00
It is because you shape it in your own fashion, you have it as you would want it to. So I would use, for instance, PwC. I'd set it up as a corporate PLC mentality. It wasn't necessary to have audited accounts, it wasn't necessary to do the things I did.
But I think it's important that you set up your store day one. And if you can get the infrastructure right at the beginning, building upon that is a much easier thing to do.
Peter Higgins 05:23
Brilliant. That touches on to my next question, which is what to do to expand on. Please can you tell us about the leadership and business lessons you've gained during that 13 year period of building that business from zero to those number of employees globally?
Mike McGeever 05:36
I think is very important, and many people will say is employ people who are better qualified than yourself to do what they're specialising in, my adages used to be if they couldn't do it better than me, I'd take the salary and do it myself, which was always a popular line at the recruitment process.
And now I had some fabulous people around me. And it's very important when you're trying to adopt British or historic British corporate policies into a brand new country, where English is widely used, but not extensively amongst all of the employees.
It was very important to bring people together to understand what it is and why we were doing the things we were doing, and of course, why the difference they were making was so important.
So leadership wise, I think, probably I would say that it was very much a an all-inclusive on board right direction. And I think that the remuneration strategy probably reflected that quite well. I think they missed me when I left.
Peter Higgins 06:36
Brilliant. Thank you for that reply.
Now, after what I'm assuming here is your financial freedom in 2015, aged young 53.
I'm guessing around that age, you returned from Dubai to England, given you enjoy cricket, golf, holidaying around the world, and socialising, not forgetting rugby, what were you missing?
Why was retirement not for you? What was it like now, got to get up and do some more?
Mike McGeever 07:00
It's not very demanding, just simply setting your alarm clock and getting up at x o'clock in the morning, simply because you don't want to sleep in and miss the day.
And what was happening was my family had expanded, son had moved to Australia, we were spending a lot of time in the States.
My daughter's still in the UK.
The reality was, though, that the grey matter has to keep on working.
You can't give it up. And it's not easy to substitute things that make a difference with hobbies and, and, and the like.
So I had to think about doing other things. And those other things. Of course, were a nice salvo of everything from charity work to creating new businesses and invest in and backing into small enterprises where people didn't have the cash but certainly have the know-how.
Peter Higgins 07:47
Brilliant we're going to talk about some of those small enterprises and businesses a bit later on. And I firstly want to go straight to the business how I met you initially. Can you briefly tell me about your love affair with Gosport and your current business the Powder Monkey Brewery please Mike?
Mike McGeever 08:02
Yeah, sure, well, I just guess it’s the love of the area, Portsmouth originally of course, being in the Navy, having moved down from Manchester.
So having my base there, which I had done for 35 years plus, it was important that the developments that were happening in Portsmouth should be expanded.
On the other side of Portsmouth Harbour is a beautiful little place called Gosport. And when I was looking, I couldn't work out the marks difference between, you know, the east and the west. So I started to make inquiries about the west, it became obvious that the intention was there.
There's an awful lot going on within Gosport and I lent my two penn'orth worth in cash and in time to be able to help things develop, one of which, of course, was the renovation of the Royal Navy's armaments depo, which we converted into a brewery, eight foot thick walls, perfect for brewing and it's a constant temperature, whether it's hot or cold, raining, whatever it may be outside, it's perfect inside.
And then of course, baker's bar and kitchen, which I purchased the virtual freehold off, that's been turned into a sports bar.
That used to be the bakery for Nelson, where the ship’s biscuits were cooked.
So that's how that building is so fabulous area.
Peter Higgins 9:19
So tell me about the connection with a chap that I met Thomo, Steve Thompson, what was the connection there because you love the rugby but you got him involved with that business as well. And then obviously we met later on we're going to talk about so what's the connection there? The rugby connection and getting Steve involved, Thomo?
Mike McGeever 09:34
Well, when I was in Dubai, I used to host an awful lot of functions, and they would be mostly southern hemisphere, particularly the All Blacks, a lot of people would come over and we would have some pretty good evenings or charity driven black and white ball in particular. But then I used to employ Ben Cohen's brother, Justin and Justin said that Ben had said that Steve was going out to Dubai, could we sort of say hello to him, so I met him, Steve, we had a good chat, Steve came to work with us for a period of time. He’s just the greatest guy. The reality is, is that we kept in touch throughout the years. And of course, when I opened the brewery, the first thing I was thinking about was the branding.
The Navy branding is easy. That's fine. But the rugby branding, I said to Steve, would you be interested in being a brand ambassador? And of course, we created Hop & Hooker, which was our first two ales.
So very, very pleased. And, of course, we came to Leicester, we met with you. And Steve was there.
Peter Higgins 10:34
Absolutely. That tasted it. So I can recommend it to anyone else was listening to this as well.
Fantastic brand. But thank you for sharing that with me. And it was brilliant to meet Thomo as well.
Now, Mike, I want to move on a little bit.
We'll come back and talk about some a bit later on as well.
Can you talk about your current investing strategies for me, please, and how your portfolio is allocated across global investments, including stocks and unlisted stocks as well, with attention please to the thinking behind some of the ones that you've picked, I would prefer if you wouldn't talk about one stock, which we mutually hold, as well. Thank you very much.
Mike McGeever 11:07
Okay, to be honest with you, you're gone to have to prompt me on which one that may be but where we are right now, I'm a fine balance Peter really between private stock and public stock.
The private stocks are everything from probably the most exciting is a groundbreaking cancer recognition situation that I'm involved with. Can't say too much about it.
Sadly, we've got big pharma all over us. And it's wrought with NDAs. So this, I say about that, the better.
I'm also an adviser to Hughes Energy, which is a conversion recycling conversion to biofuels that's coming across to Europe.
And we've also got sites set up in North America. So I'm very excited about that Powder Monkey you know about, but I'm also talking to several breweries here in Australia.
And I would suspect quite quickly that there will be an acquisition by Powder Monkey of a brewery down here.
That gives us access to Southeast Asian markets where the licences are fairly difficult to get hold of.
We have interest in a wine business in New Zealand we have on the main stock exchange with the stock exchanges.
Of course, I'm a non-exec director of an ASX listed company, which is Ava Risk Group, where I was bought in originally to chair the cash services business.
We disposed of that three years later for a significant uplift on all expectations.
And the business is now in fabulous hands with Mal Maginnis having joined us having been a presidents of both Rapiscan and Smith Detection.
We have other businesses, other stocks in the UK, I'm very excited about quite a few of them. But I would probably highlight Zephyr Energy (ZPHR), which I would think that Colin Harrington is just a super manager, he will do things and I suspect there'll be news this week, just simply on the basis of whether he keeps his promises on the timing of things. And he's not been inaccurate so far in the mean, I like that very much. I'm also very interested in the medical side of things. I like SkinBioTherapeutics (SBTX).
Again, I like the management that's very strong. And I know cases where psoriasis and eczema, etc, etc, have literally disappeared in front of us. So that's very exciting.
So as huge expectations for that business.
Peter Higgins 13:29
So as huge expectations for that business. Tell me about Zephyr, you said that was the largest investment that you've got, what was the keen interest there?
You said about the fantastic management, about the technology that they're involved in Mike because you I know you're technologists really at heart.
Mike McGeever 13:44
What I like about Zephyr is that they've pronounced themselves to be ESG active. So everything that they're doing on the drilling side, and bringing it out, they're dealing with considerations to the environment. And to the people that live in those areas, they've made some smart acquisitions about in Utah, and some very smart, they've got some collective weight with Dominion, and one or two other organisations over there.
It's going to be a very exciting time. And of course, Biden is giving the thumbs up or has given a thumbs up for America to be self-sufficient and fuel, which he pretty much could be anyway.
And I suspect that this is going to be a very short investment, because by the time some of the bigger chaps are going to have a look at it, they're going to think that this is something well worth investing in. I don't know any more than that at this stage, other than if Colin Harrington tells me something, I'm pretty much likely to believe it.
Peter Higgins 14:38
Cool. Thank you very much. And then you mentioned SkinBioTherapeutics….
Mike McGeever 14:47
I’m involved in other things as well….. So back to the private side. I'm involved in things in Sweden, which is not yet listed, but it's significant and that's having a huge impact on IBS, potentially Multiple Sclerosis. Certainly ME.
So these things are all under the radar at the moment. And not until they come into the telescope of the city, and so on and so forth. Have most people heard of them? Very excited, very excited. There's a lot going on at the moment in Europe.
Peter Higgins 15:14
Very busy man. And then you've got the connection, which we met in Leicester to raise money for charity and the Poolbeg connection and HVIVO.
Mike McGeever 15:26
Yes, I mean, again, Cathal and Jeremy, two very fine leaders, you've only got to look at Amryt recently to see exactly the seeds that Cathal laid, and you'll see where Poolbeg is going to go, and HVIVO of course, it's just a fabulous idea.
And it's very, very well activated. Poolbeg new, very small entity, I think it came in at give or take eight or 10 Pence, I can't remember, it's still about 10 Pence at the moment, it's a long way from two years ago, when it had nothing. And now all of a sudden it has what it has. It's clearly undervalued, it's clearly an entity which has legs, and no advice intended, but it's one that I'll be staying with for quite some time.
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Peter Higgins 16:24
Now Mike this might mean to us as a strategist, and people looking into investing into things long-term.
When you make an investment in a listed entity, I get the impression you're buying for the long-term.
What are you seeing in a company that enables you to have that level of conviction?
You mentioned leadership qualities already…..
Mike McGeever 16:42
I think leadership, I think an unlisted company, everything's in the public domain. So you have to take a different perspective or a different stance as to where you're looking at it from as to why it's important to you. Cash is clearly important, because who knows when the next downturn will come, businesses that have cash that don't need to borrow are generally sounder my experience.
So entities that have plenty of cash, I would look at the management, number one, but I would also look at the nature of the business that they're in. And whilst everybody's chasing the lithium, etc, etc.
At the moment, I'm sure that that's the next marketplace, I just feel that there may be a little bit too excitement, potentially this moment in time. And I think things might level down.
But as a good friend said to me, you know, when demand increases, the price doesn't go down. So maybe I'll rethink that fairly shortly.
Peter Higgins 17:35
Thank you. I love that you threw in that analogy with lithium as well.
Thank you for that. Now, please do share with us an example of one of your greatest winning investment returns period of holding that its ups and downs. And eventually your successful exit, please, for other lessons learned from that investment, please, Mike?
Mike McGeever 17:53
Well, I have to say investing in myself. The problem is, it's commercially sensitive.
So I can't give you the details. But I can tell you, it was a significant six figure outcome.
So I was very happy. So investing in myself is probably where I would take the biggest risk generally in life. But the upside ones, if I go on the listed stock exchanges, that type of stuff. I did very well out of a company called Excite Energy, I think it was called if I remember rightly, consolidated gold fields back probably almost in the 90s, late 80s 90s.
Would you believe it, Gulf Keystone at one stage.
Although it looks like it might be getting back on track off Keystone was very, very exciting. I was in the Middle East at the time and people were supplied to look after those guys.
So I could see how busy and how active it was fun, but they didn't get paid for some time was probably a bit of a downer, which then goes back to the cash loan.
Peter Higgins 18:46
Brilliant. Thank you for that.
Now, obviously, we have to touch on the downside of it. And you've mentioned to me previously about an example where you lost a significant amount of money.
So I want to talk about the learnings from that regarding you can name the company and the lessons you learned from that particular investment. What went wrong? What was your level of conviction? What didn't you see for that to happen when you took that particular loss on that particular company?
Mike McGeever 19:10
Yeah, well, look, I mean, it still may not be history. Stephen Holgate is one of the founding three or four people at Synairgen. Synairgen was very exciting. Obviously, it was driven by historically respiratory viruses, etc, etc.
But COVID came in accentuated both the focus and accelerated the speed. It was obvious to me that if it worked, it was going to be a macro solution. And the first of the second phase results were significant.
I think it was something like 78% improved chance of recovery with a significant number of days less in hospital. And I was so confident about this.
Then I decided to switch from shareholding exclusive shareholding, to shareholding and spread betting I was that confidence.
So of course, when you move your shares and transfer them into a spread betting situation, you're making the casino take yet one more spin of the wheel.
And what happened was it sort of capitulated simply because the experiments and the testings and the phase testings that they were doing, were not given enough time and probably not managed as well as perhaps it could have been this spook to the market.
I was on a flight on the way back from the Bahamas, getting what I saw was ready to come back to the UK and be fairly excited.
Unfortunately, as I say it would drop down to about 14 or 15 pence from a couple of pounds.
I wiped off 1.2 million pound in one, literally hour.
So yeah, I mean, I'm a lucky guy because it didn't affect my life significantly.
But what it did was it made me think about the risk taking which I had previously not engaged with.
But in this particular occasion, like I said at the outset, I suspect it was probably a bit of greed.
Or it was just simple over reliance on what I thought were the facts without taking into account the externalities that it impacted. So the reality was 1.2 million there or there abouts down a Pound, gone wiped out in seconds.
And when that happens, you need a bit of resilience. Of course, what happened at the same time was I got diagnosed with bowel cancer.
So I came straight from the Bahamas into hospital, had to deal with a bowel cancer suddenly just dealt with the death of my sister, one of my sisters.
And of course, the Synairgen issue.
So all three conspired to make it a fairly unpleasant couple of months.
But we are where we are. And that's life.
Peter Higgins 19:10
Yeah, I just love that the way that you've just circled that, that's lessons learned, you know, you're here, you're in good health, you've dealt with the loss of your sister, or dealing with the loss of your sister.
I think the reason why you and I resonate, I resonate with you so much I've met you is that you just speak from the heart all the time Mike you know, and you're very, very good at getting the best out of everybody, including yourself, and drag everyone else up to aspire to be at your level.
That's why I'm speaking to today, because just admire you so much. So thank you for sharing that.
Mike McGeever 22:22
That’s very kind, Peter. That's very kind.
But you're absolutely right. I guess at the end of the day, I'm just a northerner, there's no point beating around the bush, you're trying to be something you're not. Let's just get down with it.
Mike McGeever 22:33
Absolutely. Now, like I want to, I want to expand on this a little bit.
You're a leader, an owner of businesses, you're speaking to all of these professional business people as well, and you're leading them and you're advising them.
But I want you to speak as a professional private investor, what are the leadership qualities and characteristics that you're looking for in the C-Suite of a company that aligns with your own characteristics, traits, and encourage us to back that listed company, Mike?
Mike McGeever 23:02
Overwhelmingly, the idea the activities of the companies in overwhelmingly, and then I need to see the broad skill set of the individuals who are leading that company, to be really honest.
If I can say it's no good having a super CEO, but so you for the weakest link in the chain, which is the you know, the number two, number three, whatever it may be.
So I do like to get out and about and meet people. I do like to meet CEOs as you know, I make them reasonably regularly. And if I can meet them and meet the team, it gives me a good impression. I have some pretty good contacts.
So if I don't know somebody, I'll get a view on them from somebody I trust. But that's, that's really what takes me or takes the Pound out of my pocket and puts it into a share.
Because if I'm going to transfer the reliance with my own ability to improve my wealth situation, by giving it to others to do on my behalf, then I have to be pretty sure.
Peter Higgins 23:59
Love that reply. Thank you very much. What aspects of investing matters most to you?
And from an investor's perspective, what would you change regarding the investing landscape? Is there anything that every time you go to invest you're thinking about investing a significant amount of money, you need to roll your eyes at the red tape?
All the due diligence you've got to do is anything that you would change? Mike?
Mike McGeever 24:20
It’s a good question. I think probably more access on a more regular basis or more updates from companies would put us in a better position.
The organisations at the moment, I could probably name you half a dozen, but I'll just stick with two Hurricane Energy (HUR) and of course De La Rue (DLAR) both of which are mind bogglingly confusing as to why opportunities don't seem to have been taken and explanations don't seem to have been given for board actions, historic board actions. It's just I mean Hurricane was just an unbelievable situation. Let's give everything away to the bondholders, you shareholders should be happy. It was outrageous. I think it was only the intervention of Crystal Amber that stopped that and ultimately a high court judge.
De La Rue is the same.
I mean, De La Rue is just is the last or was at one time, a wonderful organisation.
They're very proud of British organisation. Now, it's probably third or fourth in the pecking order worldwide. It really hasn't. It really hasn't impressed me.
Peter Higgins 25:29
Some good examples there. Thank you ever so much. Now, we talked about Thomo earlier on.
And the fact that you came up to both of you came up to Leicestershire to support me with the Menphys Charity Fundraiser in 2021 and we raised nearly 24 grand that particular time.
Please share with us what you're looking at the moment regarding homelessness and UK Armed Forces Veterans Mike because I know it's something very important to you, I want you to get the opportunity to talk a little about that. But try not to get too spicy with the political aspects of it, please.
Mike McGeever 25:59
No, absolutely not. One thing you don't know, by the way, is that on that very night in Leicester, there were there was my best friend died that night.
Peter Higgins 26:06
Oh, my gosh.
That’s right. But the show had to go on. And that's the first time you've heard that.
So what am I doing now, just taking the view that there's an awful lot of overlooking of veterans, veterans situations, the problem with veterans is that they've pretty often don't ask for help. And because of that, they'll make do they'll get on with it, they'll shrug their shoulders, I'm all right, Jack, whatever it may be.
And that's not really having been there. That's not really the best situation because it may do well in the services. So I'm trying to set up at this moment in time working very closely with Portsmouth Naval Base Property Trust, overseeing the assets of the former Royal Navy side, I'm trying to set up down there a situation whereby we have a basically an incubator, whereby homeless veterans can come in, they can work on a 20 hours a week, or whatever it may be, that we agree with on a voluntary basis.
They stay there until they get settled, they get bank accounts, they get rid of bonuses, benefits, and other established stabilising issues that people seek. Once they get themselves a full time job, then that's a we've feel that we've done our job.
And they're comfortable that they can move on to make plays for the next guys and the next girls that may need that exact same service.
So no politics involved at all, I'm very pleased to say that Johnny Mercer seems to have put it on the agenda.
The appointment of him in the first instance was, was a wonderful thing. So I'm hopeful that we are going to be moving forward quite quickly on that. And if we do, it's a contribution to society, which I think because most service people in the main have got the right intentions, but unfortunate circumstances. And they're very unlikely generally, to know how to deal with it outside of what was a service life.
Peter Higgins 27:59
Brilliant, that's fantastic. I'm so sorry about your friend going back to 2021, as well. But yeah, please keep me posted on that. And I'd love to help and support you with that as well as I've been doing as well trying to pay it forward with supporting Thomo with all his endeavours as well.
Thank you, Mike. Now, I've got a final question for you, Mike regarding this particular interview, you are a high net worth individual and a professional investor. It always intrigues me.
Why as investors that have got so much wealth, so many are gravitated or forced or encouraged, or find the need to have that additional spice by going into the nano caps and small caps.
What is it about you, me and others that we who gravitate towards the smallest spicy end of the market?
Mike McGeever 28:42
Well, some might say we're fools is the short answer. But the reality is, I still think that we feel a sense of accomplishment when something which is not fully formed, becomes formed, and thereafter grows.
So I would say it's probably that it's almost a nurturing within ourselves, projected onto small companies and organisations that may have the idea but generally don't have the support.
So I would suggest it's probably that nothing too exciting. Nothing too technical, but I'm sure that's the answer.
Peter Higgins 29:17
Brilliant Mike.
That was absolutely brilliant speaking with you, I've covered all my questions and any other pearls of wisdom you want to share?
You've been in the market as a business leader, as a long term investor in listed and unlisted entities.
And if you want to share that we've not covered for those that looking to begin the journey of investing.
Mike McGeever 29:35
I think I would probably I mean, the reality feature is you can't invest what you can't afford to lose.
That's rule number one.
So whether it's Maslow or any other hygiene factor, recognition outlooks situation, you have to take care of the basics and the fundamentals. That's the reality. So if I was a just beginning investor, and I probably didn't have a lot than I could afford to put at risk, I'd go big, and I'd probably go dividend driven.
And if I was going to do that, then I could see that it could form a small part of my portfolio of income, which in time will grow. And thereafter, you know, to reinvest the dividends or to take those dividends and to put them into smaller entities with more capital growth outlook would be a best way of doing, I would say that, probably pretty much what I did, the largest share the largest company I have shares in is Whitbread. And it's still a pretty good dividend payer.
It still kicks on, it's dealt with the Costa Coffee situation is moving on. And it's a pretty well managed company. So I don't just go for the small ones. No, do I mean that's really I mean, I will be cheeky, throwing another final question.
You've got a grandchild arriving any minute now, any day, now you've got the opportunity to invest a large sum of money for her. But you can only choose between Microsoft or Google. And she has to remain invested until she's 21.
He or she still is 21 years of age might, which one do you choose? And why?
Mike McGeever 31:09
I would choose Google. I would choose Google because I the reason why is because I think Google is more of the future. Microsoft, it's already obvious that Microsoft whatever Microsoft can do or does do can be done by many other entities, Google just does what it does better than most.
Peter Higgins 31:30
Brilliant response. Thank you so much. That was Mike McGeever, serial entrepreneur, charity champion, business advisor, business owner and professional investor.
Mike, thank you so much for joining us on this Investing Matters interview and podcast all the way from Perth in Australia. Stay healthy, my friend. Take care God bless.
Mike McGeever 31:47
Thanks, Peter. Take care.
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