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You are listening to Investing Matters brought to you in association with London South East. This is the show that provides informative educational and entertaining content from the world of investing. We do not give advice so please do your own research.
Peter Higgins 00:17
Hello and welcome to the Investing Matters podcast. My name is Peter Higgins and today I have the huge privilege of speaking to James Deal, the co-founder and head of UK of the award winning FCA regulated online platform PrimaryBid. Hello, James.
James Deal 00:32
Good morning. How are you?
Peter Higgins 00:33
I'm very well. Nice to meet you, James. Now, James, I want to start this interview, if I may, with asking you to share with us what shaped your first interests in business investing or economics please?
James Deal 00:44
I'd say my first direction was during my time at Durham University where I studied Business Economics with an Honours degree.
I had a placement with a bank based in Hong Kong, Hoare Govett and that was a hugely interesting time working on a trading floor surrounded by very capable, talented people, bright people who work hard day and night.
And that really spurred my interest to come back, and then apply for a role in the banking industry, which began with my time at Dresdner Kleinwort Benson in 1996.
Peter Higgins 01:13
Okay, let's share a little bit about your time at Dresdner and what your learnings were from that please?
James Deal 01:18
So Kleinwort Benson at the time recently acquired Dresner the German bank was a leading franchise in UK equities, broking and advisory.
So a great place to start my career. And I worked for a number of years in what was termed the equity smaller mid-cap sales team. So broking, the smaller end of the market to institutional investors across the UK.
Peter Higgins 01:40
Thank you for that. And then after that, you went to Numis Securities where you spent a significant period of time tracking and you've worked on leading the mining franchise of the UK focus business, you tell us a little bit about that period as well? That's another sort of piece of the puzzle that makes you the person that you are today.
James Deal 01:56
Sure. So around 2002, I moved across to join Numis, again focused on the small and mid-cap end of the market that was very much Numis’s franchise having been founded on the insurance sector, it was expanding into other areas, and very quickly spotted the fact that at the time, Numis had a preeminent mining analyst, that's the resources or mining sector was covered by them, but was very nascent in that franchise. And at the same time was latching on to the fact that there was something happening this is 2003 we were yet to see the full wrath of China really impact the demand and supply of core commodities on a global basis.
And so I was early into understanding that which was great fun because in public markets, having an information edge is in danger of making a quasi-specialist I would not refer to myself as a specialist other than I worked hard to try and understand what was really driving commodity prices.
And again, looking at how that transferred into the value of equities, existing listed companies and in bringing exciting new companies through to the listed market.
Peter Higgins 02:54
Fantastic. Thank you for that reply. 2006 You moved over to JP Cazenove, JP Morgan Cazenove and you spent 14 years there as head of UK small-cap sales and built a fantastic reputation James.
And you were the forefront of UK and European mid-cap equities, please share the greatest lessons from that period please?
James Deal 03:12
So it was great fun moving from a very fast moving smaller business like Numis into a very well established franchise like JP Morgan Cazenove, which at the time was preeminent in having the JP Morgan balance sheet combined with the trusted franchise long standing franchise and leading franchise of Cazenove.
So that was a really happy partnership and amazing combination because there's not many examples of where you've seen that combination of say a US Bank buying into a UK franchise and making it work. And this really did work.
So again, I moved across with half of focus very much on the mining sector because at Numis the only time I'd ever lost business really was to the JP Morgan cazenove machine. So if you can't beat them join them was part of my logic at the time.
And apart from that it was a delight to be working with a really strong team of people again broking the mid to small end of the markets to an institutional client base.
Peter Higgins 04:04
Fantastic. Thank you. Now 2019, you joined PrimaryBid as their Chief Operating Officer James, what attracted you to their goals and ambitions regarding I mean, essentially, it was a startup. A lot of people describe it as a startup at that stage?
James Deal 04:18
Well if I take a step back, actually from within my time at JP Morgan Cazenove, what I've really enjoyed about public equity markets, especially at the small cap end, is you are privileged to meet with management teams of companies on a very regular basis to see the whites of their eyes and truly understand their intention, their ambition and their talents to grow and develop their businesses.
And as a broker, either on the trading and public market side or on the private side as an adviser to the companies. It's really really exciting to know you can make a difference in 2000, going back a bit in 2016, I moved off the trading floor at JPMorgan to run a corporate broking on the corporate side of the business and during that time I discovered that there were far too many companies listed in the markets who were not seeing enough liquidity in their shares day to day.
And it occurred to me that what we are seeing is a shift in the level of index and quants driven flows. So index tracking flows and electronic trading at the expense of the human element, if you like the level of trading activity that was actually pushing through the markets on a day to day basis from human decision and individual investors. And that occurred to me to be a growing problem. It's quite interesting, if you take a step back, and you look at the way the market has evolved over a long period of time.
Ironically, in in the 1950s, the entire stock market was people there were no institutions, by about 1985, that percentage has dropped to about a third of the market was individuals, as the pension funds and equivalent had grown to become the majority, it reached a low just prior to 2010 of less than 10% of the market was people, individual investors. And that's now rising. Again, it's rising quite steadily.
Today, we're about 15% of the market owned by individuals, there was a chance meeting for me PrimaryBid was in very nascent form in 2019 and it occurred to me very clearly here is a business that is pushing with regulated form to be able to put individuals back into the stock market, something that's happening anyway, being driven by matters, we'll come on and talk about such as the use of technology.
And this is a really interesting purpose. And so for any listed company, trying to maintain the right level of liquidity and price discovery and the heartbeat of how share price should operate. It's very, very clear today, that nurturing and maintaining that human retail element is a really important part of the equation.
Peter Higgins 06:39
Absolutely. Thank you for that. Now, please do share with us, we've touched on some of it already there an overview of the PrimaryBid global offerings as some people think it's UK, which is a global offering that you offer there.
James Deal 06:50
Sure. So a little word on PrimaryBid, I hope most people are familiar with our business.
Ironically, as I've sort of mentioned, we are using technology to help put human beings put people back into the markets.
And we're doing that here in the UK where we were founded and what's exciting. And what drew me to PrimaryBid in the first place was the ability to export our best practice to other places geographically.
So we are live today in France, soon to launch in the Netherlands and Belgium and other parts of Europe because we are partnered with London Stock Exchange in the UK, and Euronext for nine countries in Europe.
But we're also looking at other geographies. And the next big opportunity for us really is the US and taking our technology and our solution and our partnership ethos in the way that we work with the banks with all distribution partners, with law firms, PR firms and of course, companies directly to help them connect to the broadest audience possible, especially when they are raising capital because that's when it matters.
So from a global point of view, the big market for us to conquer is very much the US and that's what we're doing in support from our shareholders and intent from the team that we've built.
Peter Higgins 07:52
Indeed, I've noted here you've attracted some stellar investors yourself in the form of as you've said a few there already Softbank, One Stock Exchange, Fidelity, Draper, ABN AMRO, Pentech, Outward Ventures and how are these accelerating the process here? How have they been enabling you to get into these capital markets invariably which they are?
James Deal 08:12
So beyond the team internally, if you look at our shareholder letter base today, it's got a great strategic element to it. So all of our shareholders are incredibly helpful with advice on how we grow the business and grow the headcount how we improve our technology as a technology lead enterprise.
But also, strategically, if you take the likes of SoftBank and a number of other investors, they have under Outward Ventures and Fidelity ventures, they have positions in private companies that will seek to list in public markets and their investments in PrimaryBid is in part because they see the benefit of using us as a worthy channel to build out that ownership beyond the institutional game, and to give a broader base of people the chance to own a piece of companies from within their portfolios.
And of course, it's not just about the retail investor per se, it's what we term stakeholder inclusion. So it's giving a company the chance to reach its community of customers, employees, franchise partners, and a much broader base of dare I say the public also in inclusion in what is of course, a public market.
Peter Higgins 09:11
Thank you. You touch seamlessly answered my next question here, which I'll ask you anyway. There's a fear that there's still some misconception of PrimaryBid as a business to consumer platform, please could you share what percentage of B2C trades PrimaryBid works on what the larger aspects of the businesses is?
James Deal 09:27
Well, if you look at our history, our B2C solution, our ability to give the individual the chance to transact in a fundraising for a public company directly via our websites or our app was really, really important to give us the chance to get onto the pitch.
Today, what's interesting is actually more and more of the flow and the demand that we generate comes from third parties.
So it comes through distribution channels such as the big platform so Hargreaves Lansdown, AJ Bell, interactive investor, and so on.
But really what we stand for is the ability to give multi-channel will access to give the investor complete choice of where they want to invest from whether it's their ISA, or SIPP, through the platform or wealth management they're connected to, or indeed on their debit card directly through PrimaryBid, which in some cases, and we've canvassed our customer base, that's a really welcomed channel, people like to be able to invest and add to their investment funds through their current account.
I think it's also worth just mentioning that with that, it's about awareness. So as we're seeing regulatory change come through, something we are very focused on, is to tick that box of best practices about getting the awareness of the transaction to the broadest audience as quickly and efficiently as one can, with a message that people understand.
So we take the transaction information, and we curate it into a form that is easy to understand. We don't provide advice or any recommendation, but we give full information on the transaction in a time efficient manner. And then we give the investor the chance to be able to transact from whichever channel they see as most appropriate.
Peter Higgins 10:57
Indeed, I must touch on this because it's quite important as well, and noted in the past the speed of some of these fundraisers, absolutely phenomenal, and some of them have closed within less than 24 hours. So there's clearly some real pent up demand.
How do you deal with all of that business in the sense of flow, as you've called it?
James Deal 11:16
That's the beauty of our technology platform, the fact that we are able to process demand and allocate shares in some time as a matter of hours.
And I think what we're waking up to as an industry is that it's only right to give all investors the right and appropriate amount of time to be able to consider their investment decision, and then be able to participate in a given transaction.
But at the end of the day, as PrimaryBid, really think of us as a partner to the existing system, giving the small investor an equal place at the table the chance to participate on the same terms.
Unfortunately, we don't dictate those terms. So if the transaction is limited to a matter of hours, we are providing that equal access, we can't dictate whether it's a matter of hours or days or weeks, where we have a voice, we will always advocate for the longest timeframe possible.
Because the more time someone has, the more informed they may become. And I would say that, you know, this is all about the fact that today, it's the source of information through technology, right through the web, and so on.
That means that the investor can become aware of the deal, and be fully informed from information that is free to use in an open basis, and then be able to transact as effectively as possible, all lead from technology advances were making and indeed, integrating with our partners to do so.
Peter Higgins 12:31
Excellent. Thank you. Now you've worked with over or around 300 FTSE and AIM companies, could you share some of the high calibre companies that you've worked with across the FTSE and the AIM, please, James?
James Deal 12:42
Yes, so we've raised for near 300 companies we've done pretty much every FTSE 100 placing and most FTSE 250 placings for the last few years, and we take great pride in that. And that includes companies such as Severn Trent, Taylor Wimpey, Hickel, which is an infrastructure company and Investment Trust, and I'll talk about investment trusts momentarily.
But I get just as excited about raising capital for the smallest of AIM companies, where we're helping create that capital formation, as I do about working with the largest FTSE 100 companies where we're giving that governance take that equal access for the small shareholder to be on this level playing field.
And so we celebrate the fact that it's our technology that allows for both ends of the spectrum and everything in between to work efficiently.
Peter Higgins 13:25
Excellent. Now, as a leader of the business as a technology company, what's the biggest challenge to the business that you're facing today? You know, speed, data, diligence, what is it, that's a challenge for you at PrimaryBid?
James Deal 13:39
One of the ongoing challenges we have is that we operate in a regulated market, and we take it very, very seriously.
So we have an incredibly talented compliance team, legal team, broad capital markets team.
And they operate hand in glove with our marketing and design, and our technology team, which is sizeable, and our product team who are helping us take our technology forwards and improve how we can provide a service to the issuers that we work with.
That's the companies that are listed, but also, of course, to the end investor, whether it's directly through our own subscriber base, or just as importantly, through our partners, we're helping them reach their underlying customers, we're helping the platform customer to be able to connect with the transaction as efficiently as possible.
Now, the point I'm making in an answer to your question is bringing the realms of technology and finance together is not easy.
Fintech is a wonderful agenda. It's a wonderful source of growth here in the UK, we are a beacon and a centre of excellence for fintech. But mark my words when I say it's not an easy thing to bring technology and finance together in its regulated form.
But I'm pleased to say that we are funded and incredibly well adept at doing so not least, but having been operating for four years plus in this worthy challenge.
Peter Higgins 14:53
Indeed and then that goes to my next question, James really. What has surprised you the most about PrimaryBid’s growth and adaption of its platform?
James Deal 15:01
Look, we are a business. That's careful what one wishes for. But we thrive in periods of adversity, that is to say, when listed companies need to raise capital for growth purposes or to strengthen the balance sheet, that's where we step in.
And we can really help as well as giving that connectivity to a broader base of existing and new investors. And I think it's interesting, it was, of course, a surprise, no one knew that a health crisis would represent such a catalyst for bringing this whole agenda forward.
So put PrimaryBid to one side, what's truly wonderful is the way capital markets, not just in the UK, but of course, globally have woken up to the fact that the individual investor has a place at the table and can make a difference.
So when you look at post COVID, post the initial shock, it's fascinating how markets globally rallied because of the engagement and inputs from individuals.
And that's fascinating, I think we've seen the pendulum swing almost too far with a lot of noise around meme stocks and areas where we don't need to discuss today, I think what we stand for is a really simple ethos of ownership.
So it's giving the stakeholder the community around the company, or the broad public the chance to own a listed company. After all listed equities are by far and away the best performing asset class through any time period.
But going back decades, and as PrimaryBid, we celebrate the fact that we are giving individuals the chance to be able to participate in listed equities, at that special moment when you get discounted share issuance and true understanding of the growth profile of a company that's tends to be around a transaction. And that's the ethos of PrimaryBid.
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Peter Higgins 16:56
We're fortunate at the moment to see the FTSE almost at all-time highs. So I'm fully expect that it's going to be even more accelerated fundraising going forward. So I suspect that the PrimaryBid’s are going to be really busy going forward. What's your hopes and aspirations for that?
James Deal 17:13
Look, it's ironic, you mentioned the FTSE I mean, it did hit an all-time high last week, and has since dropped back a little bit.
I think that masks a much more fragile market. Actually, I think the fact the FTSE has been so strong performing reflects two things It reflects as everyone understands the fact there's quite a lot of foreign income, whether it be oil companies or otherwise that feed into the value of the FTSE 100.
But it's also because it's always been seen as the top companies here in our markets, as a flight to safety or flight to quality.
And I think in a world where it's difficult to know what happens next, there's a very natural defensive move to owning the safety of the largest companies in the marketplace.
Behind that though, on one hand, I'm we all have concerns about where we're going next as a nation and looking every day at what's happening from point of view, inflation, and all factors and recessionary pressures.
That said, it's really exciting time for public markets. Because, as I mentioned earlier, I think public markets really do tend to shine through periods of adversity.
Because as a public company, you've got the chance to turn quickly and go to your shareholders existing are new, and achieve the support, raise the capital that you need to develop your business and take it forward and continue to innovate, especially at that small-cap end, which is where I've spent most of my days. And as primary bid, we're playing a small part in that exact agenda.
So it's a really exciting time in terms of, you know, with every element of adversity, of course, we see opportunity.
Peter Higgins 18:40
Indeed you speak of adversity, and it's usually the time when great leaders and great companies actually come to the fore. You're fortunate enough James to work alongside one of the smartest and through this UK Tech pioneers Anand Sambasivan, and he's the co-founder of PrimaryBid please can you share the qualities that he possesses that enables PrimaryBid and yourself to go on democratising investing for all please?
James Deal 19:04
Well, the first thing to say is Anand by a combination of I would say, a little bit of luck, because it's always good, did come up with the concept of PrimaryBid.
And without going into his history and his career. There are reasons that led him there. But what a brilliant, brilliant moment and idea and we all celebrate that.
Anand I are partners indeed and form in every way. And he's a delight to work with. He has an incredible mind, great vision. And as we look beyond the UK to other geographies and so on, it's really exciting to look at what Anand and our broader team are capable of delivering in taking our mission or purpose to a much broader audience beyond UK shores.
Peter Higgins 19:42
Indeed, you touched on earlier, please, could you expand on obviously the market, the other market that you're looking really to break into and to expand and is the U.S.
Please can you expand on that and tell us about that market and why that's so important because it's a huge market and you've got a fantastic number of people who want to access the market but can't in the way that we're fortunate to have at the moment in the UK.
James Deal 20:02
So obviously is the largest market in the world. That's the first point to make. I think it's very interesting that everyone we're partnering with here, particularly banks, see the potential and the benefits of what we can do. And that can apply to other markets, the U.S. is, is in some ways, easy for us in terms of language, but obviously has different rules of law and governance and so on.
But that's surmountable, and we're guessing that. I mean, I think at the end of the day, this, it's really interesting to look at the purpose we have here is exactly the same in the U.S.
And there really is a wakeup call around the fact that the small investor, the individual, can make a difference with use of technology and the right platform support and so on.
This is a really, really interesting cohort of public equity ownership, that will continue to grow. And so as we look to progress, our position in the UK and Europe and elsewhere, too, it's only natural that the U.S. is the obvious market that we can work in.
And we've been welcomed with open arms in terms of playing a part in helping the existing system and partners deliver what they can for either existing listed companies or for new companies coming to market.
Peter Higgins 21:10
Excellent. Thank you for that. I'm going to change things up slightly for a moment, James, if I may. And I want to ask you about your own investing strategy.
You've got a vast, I think decades of experience in the market in the small-caps, mid-cap space.
So how do you invest as James Deals’ own money? You know, you've earned some money in the past?
Are you still earning money?
Now, how do you invest yourself in the small cap space? And you elsewhere shows a little bit of that?
James Deal 21:34
Yeah, well, as I said, I would not refer to myself as a specialist in any way. Increasingly, though, I found myself turning more towards the smaller end of the market, I really enjoy getting to know businesses that are a small, perhaps more nascent phase of development, and therefore have real scope to grow, and real scope for a management team to have impact over the direction of the business.
I think it's interesting to understand a couple of points the stock market is a living breathing organism in many ways, and at different points in a cycle or for a period of time, is driven by levels in simplicity, as is understood in stock market terms, by fear, and greed.
And it's very, very interesting to keep some elements of understanding of where we are on that spectrum of fear through to greed at the other end. But cutting through it all, I would say that there's every merit in seeking out businesses that have strong asset backing, and indeed a really healthy dividend or income profile.
Because through time, irrespective of where we might be in a fearful market or a greedy market, you will know that you will always get paid your dues. If you are accumulating dividend returns year in year out.
And you can sleep at night knowing that a company is is well backed in terms of asset value. And interestingly, I find myself turning more and more away from single stock equities towards Investment Trusts, which is a wonderful sector in the UK, we have 3-400 Investment Trusts listed, all publishing, and NAV on a regular basis, a lot of them delivering a really good income profile.
And they represent investment portfolios that you otherwise cannot touch in public markets, or indeed, therefore private markets. And so for the individual, it's very, very applicable, that you've got very high levels of diligence, as I say, strong reporting on asset value in the NAV of the trust, they're highly liquid, and a really clever way of being able to squirrel away returns and grow ones pension pots or savings pools for the future.
Peter Higgins 23:30
Indeed, I've interviewed two of the individuals from the Association of Investment Companies and we've talked about dividend heroes, and I'm sure you've got some of those in your portfolio.
Can you just touch on and expand on it please, James regarding the compounding of the dividends and why that's so important for investors to invest long-term, essentially as well, when they're accessing some of these offerings for PrimaryBid to look at the companies do they offer a dividend etc?
James Deal 23:56
Well, we don't select which companies we raised capital for.
We are open access. As I mentioned earlier, we provide no advice or guidance on recommendation.
But it is it is a testament to just good practice on investing that the compounding element of a dividend profile is about the most powerful thing one can understand and the sooner people save and invest for themselves, the better.
And it's very interesting to see how pension reform is coming through with a very firm eye on the fact that there is an enormous pool of capital available today, circa 400 billion, some say up to a trillion pounds of capital sitting in cash in savings vehicles ISAs, SIPPs, or otherwise, that is applicable to investing in public equities. And, again, as PrimaryBid our purpose really is to help individuals seek out the best opportunities to be able to invest that pool of capital.
Peter Higgins 24:46
Thank you. Now, James, what's been your greatest investing lesson to date? And how have they shaped your investing philosophy?
James Deal 24:52
I think it's really important to understand moments of exuberance when you've got that sort of greed element feeding into market practice to remember that no one is an expert, and to keep sight on a few home truths, such as sticking to the discipline of whether it be a dividend profile or asset backing or whatever is a preferred investment strategy.
I mean, in terms of my own experience of such, I think it's fair to say like most people, there's a growing awareness of what it means to invest in what we believe in, whether it's, you know, a sustainable future for the world around us, or companies or brands, or businesses that we respect and are closely affiliated to.
And I think that makes a lot of sense, especially if one understands the products that we are using every day, I think everyone would wish that they'd really latched on to owning Apple shares, once they understood the brilliance of the product.
And that is an amazing story in its own right. For my own part, I do enjoy investing in companies through PrimaryBid belief in fact that we raised for FTSE 100 and downwards, where we have a strong affinity to the brand.
So for us a triumph, for instance, was Ocado.
Ocado is a service I have watched and seen develop and grow over many years, I helped float the company in my past life.
And I do enjoy the fact that as PrimaryBid, we are giving the Ocado customer who has that smiley face deliver their groceries on a regular basis, we're giving that customer the chance to be an owner of the business to be part of the growth story and the further development of the company.
Peter Higgins 26:15
Right, James, we've got a couple more questions. So I'm just going to go ahead and ask you these questions, now, James, if you could recommend one business book, and one investing book, which would they be and why, Please?
James Deal 26:27
Okay, good question. I like the fact that has been no preparation on this.
Look, I'll give one simple answer because I think it answers on both counts. And that is a book called 4,000 weeks, which is really assessing the fact that the average lifespan of a human being is around 4,000 weeks, which when you look at it and think about it is not a long time. And it does focus the mind on making sure we not waste a single moment, whether it be in the working day or indeed a life outside of the office and understanding how one prioritises time between the two is all too important to be efficient in and out of the workplace.
So I recommend that as a read for anybody, both for business purposes and in general life.
Peter Higgins 27:03
Brilliant, now on that note, then how do you maintain your business and your physical well-being regarding all of the demands upon you throughout the days and the weeks and the years of your life?
What's your tip regarding maintaining that balance?
James Deal 27:17
So what immediately springs to mind is the fact that we built PrimaryBid, our greatest period of growth was during the pandemic, and working from home was very much the norm.
And whilst very efficient, I think it's interesting that for most people, it had elements of being very unhealthy to have no distance between the workplace and the home environment.
And so what I've discovered is that whilst I am in the office, most days now, probably four days and the average week, I find that time to get to the office is crucial to be able to settle the mind in terms of transitioning from a work environment, to a home environment.
And increasingly, what we're finding at PrimaryBid is that our people really benefit and enjoy spending time together under one roof. That's how we move forwards. That's how we bring finance and technology together to the greatest effect.
So I think time in an office is all too important, especially less. So perhaps for someone like me who's been around too long for young people who are keen to learn and want to move forwards, you can't put a price you can't value enough.
The benefits of being physically present together, and working with people that are there to help you help you move forward to help you solve problems and help you develop the business that you're working in. And it really means that the working day can be a lot more fun than perhaps the loneliness of seeming efficiency, but you know, lonely environments of one's own home.
Peter Higgins 28:37
Fantastic. I love that you answered it that way. Thank you very much. Now, despite being very busy and balancing life out, you actually find time zones to support some charities, can you just share details of the two recent charities that you've worked with? Please?
James Deal 28:50
Yes, the Winchester Shelter is a charity that's close to home for me physically and in terms of location, and is really effective voluntary attendance from its support base to help lift people off the streets and into shelter and very effective in follow up with those people.
And dealing with mental issues as well as the physicality of not having somewhere to live.
So I'm really enjoying that. And that is often an overnight agenda, but a fantastic charity. And the second is a charity called A Chance to Shine, which is amazing.
It's using cricket, taking cricket as a medium, to help young particularly young people in troubled communities, to use the game to help build social skills and help them open their minds to the support of what sports and camaraderie and community can do to bring people forwards.
So as I say, I think I think a chance to shine is interesting. Cricket is a wonderful game. It has a global footing. And so both in the UK and beyond, A Chance to Shine is a really effective and celebrated charity for that.
Peter Higgins 29:50
Brilliant, love the fact that you still find the time support charities, I think it's very important that we all do as much as we can to help those in difficult communities.
Now, James, I've got one final question for you. I'm always going to be cheeky with my final question.
So bear with me on this one, PrimaryBid are helping 300 plus companies raise money globally. Now, obviously there's going to be talk about PrimaryBid raising their own money for an IPO.
Could you share anything? Can I get a scoop here, regarding future plans for an IPO of PrimaryBid please?
James Deal 30:20
We've raised capital several times, we are fortunate to have a very strong balance sheet having raised circa $250 million for our own purposes to date, on one hand, it would be a really natural, a really wonderful thing for PrimaryBid to be listed in the public market to give our subscribers and the broader audience that we serve the chance to own a piece of our business, there is a time and a place for that.
And I would say to any company, you only go public, you only list when at the appropriate moment. And so without the need for funding. And as we seek to grow a broader base and platform of stability for our business, now is not the time to be going public.
But never say never, there could absolutely be a point in the future, where we see every merit of that democratic agenda of giving, giving the people that support us the people we stand for the chance to become participants and owners in our business. That's a fantastic longer-term agenda.
Peter Higgins 31:11
Thank you. Oh, you can ask one more question they'll be checking out regarding AI machine learning, how are you going to advance and keep up with the speed of all of the technologies out there to enhance and grow and expedite the growth of PrimaryBid, because everything's technology like these days, new guys are at the forefront of that?
James Deal 31:29
It's good question. And we were really excited about what we are doing today. From the point of view of AI. As we grow our database, and therefore our sources of data.
It's becoming really, really interesting to look at how we can use that data to help the businesses and customers we serve and the industry around us.
So you know, our predictive ability to look at the demand we will generate on a deal is very accurate, and that will only get better with every transaction that we do.
And that means we can play a very valuable hand in helping the investment bank or the company that we're raising for achieve the right outcome in terms of best possible and most efficient outcome on a fundraising and more broadly, using technology.
Using data to deliver information into the hands of the individual investor in an appropriate way, is a really apparent opportunity.
It's not easy, but we are working hard to make that happen to make it happen with efficiency as best we can. At the end of the day, we're here to help bring down the cost of equity, giving people the chance to buy into this asset class in the most efficient way they can.
Peter Higgins 32:31
James, thank you so much. That was James Deal, Co-Founder of UK or the award winning FCA regulated online platform Primary Bid.
Thank you, James.
James Deal 32:41
Thanks, Peter.
LSE 32:50
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