The London South East, Investing Matters Podcast, Episode 23, John Salako, Business Development Director at SME Business Finance

LSE 00:01

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Peter Higgins 00:17

Hello, and welcome to the Investing Matters podcast. My name is Peter Higgins and today I have the huge privilege of speaking with John Salako. The Crystal Palace legend former England international, he’s graced a few clubs actually including Coventry, Brentford, Fulham to name others. And also at one stage you were the manager of Crystal Palace yourself, John.

John Salako 00:42

Coach, first team coach as team coach.

Peter Higgins 00:43

First team coach. Yeah, exactly. So John, I'm speaking with you today, because you've made a huge transition from being a professional football player, elite athlete to working in the finance sector working in the media as a Sky pundit, which we'll get onto a bit later on. And not many people make that transition to you've done it almost seamlessly. So I wanted to speak to you today about that. So thank you for coming on this podcast with me.

John Salako 01:06

Pleasure.

Peter Higgins 01:07

John, want to start this Investing Matters interview, if I may, by asking you for the benefit of our listeners, who are all private and institutional investors. What are the main things you took from your professional sporting career into the investing career you have now?

John Salako 01:23

You know, it's really weird. I think the sort of rugby players, the cricketers, they go on to higher education and they get better education, maybe possibly go to college, a lot of them go to university. So they come out what I call in the real world, and they sort of understand business, and they understand how businesses work. But one thing I did, I think that we can do it a lot better for footballers is to have better education, I think we will follow the American system.

When you watch the draft, you know, they have to go to uni, they need to get a degree they need to keep in with a and they come out like 21/22 years of age. And they're what I call adults. And they're grownups and they understand how the real world works. And they've got an education. And they've got some qualifications, which I think so important. And probably where football really misses out is footballers as they're just in this sort of closeted, and they sort of live in this real in a world that is sort of closed from the real world. And they're locked away.

So I don't know how we're going to address that. But I think for myself, I think you're lost in this world of just playing football, and they just want you to concentrate purely on football.

And I can remember Steve Coppell promising my mum that I would continue my education when I signed as a 16 year old, you know, as an apprentice, so they were like, yeah, yeah, we'll get him to do his A-Levels. And, you know, we're getting further education, of course, no one bothers.

But a lot of players when you're an apprentice, you perhaps go to college, one day, a week, one afternoon, a week, and you go and spend sort of a couple of hours in a classroom where you learn how to write a cheque how to open a bank account, how to write a CV, and just basic things that you would think kids would know, but they don't and players don't know, let alone about commerce about logistics about IT, you know, marketing and, and how the world really works and where you might fit in, let alone the professions.

So, you know, there's this massive conversation for football as you retire between sort of 34/36 and Stevie Coppell always used to say, so importantly, so you know, football is just a stepping stone to the rest of your life. And for 90% of football as it is, even if you have a career, you're going to need to go and do something else financially, but you're going to want to do something else because you've got so much life left to go and explore and do so it shouldn't be wonderful grounded, you know, as you take it as a positive. So I was very lucky. What I say lucky, I was unfortunate, in a sense, where when it was really my time I was playing for England, I was gonna move to Italy, I started learning Italian, Serie A was the place to play. And I injured my knee. I ruptured my cruciate very badly, and I ended up in West Hollywood having an operation came back was out for 10 months.

And, you know, unfortunately, I was back played for six months back in the England team, and it went again, and I was back to West Hollywood, had it done again, and I was out for 10 months again, and really just kind of missed out on my time.

That was the time to go to the European Championships in Sweden to go to the World Cup in USA ‘94.

So as far as in a lot of ways, that was really, really so hard to take. But what I did do was you know, I sort of got a phone call, started doing television and started working for Sky and I sort of said to Sky, if you need anyone on the training ground, call me and I used to laugh with Andy Gray and Richard Keys because I became Bogner. I was the last resort. If a footballer didn't turn up with Vinnie Jones or George Best was pissed or in the pub.

John, can you get down there literally I'd fly down there and I'd be on the show to a stage where the head of Sky Sports David Whiten, Andy Melvin and the guys literally said to me, look, if the knee doesn't work out, you've got a job here at Sky so started transitioning in.

That's the stark reality that you think if I get injured, if my knee doesn't come through this, then what am I going to do?

You start getting Plan B and Plan C, what are you going to do? So I started doing my coaching badges and started doing television. And so but luckily, you know, I went back and I was playing and I sort of came back and it was a transition for me at Palace at that time so I sort of come through them, Ian Wright, Mark Bright, Nigel Martyn, Andy Thorn.

There was that team that got to the we finished third in the top flight, which is incredible. And we won the Zenith Data Systems a year after we've got to the Cup final where we beat Liverpool in the semi final. I mean, Liverpool in the 80s and won the league title seven or eight times, they would like Invincibles with John Barnes and McMahon and Rush and how and then Hanson and Lawrenson and Grobbelaar, you knows that we were really the change of the guard really where we beat Liverpool in that semi final then played Man United in the final.

And we were three two up with about six minutes left. If they'd lost that game, Alex Ferguson would have got the sack. And Mark Hughes scores with six minutes to go. And I often, you know, talk about that with Sir Alex Ferguson, who said, you know, there's that bond, there's that thing where he, you know, he understands that he's such a brilliant man, because he still remembers me, he still remembers my wife's name. You know, he's sort of like, he has that respect. I mean, he did try and buy me as well, which should have been great. But he did have Giggs and Sharpe coming through.

Peter Higgins 06:15

On the wings, yeah.

John Salako 06:16

They wouldn't have had a chance if he'd signed me. But that's amazing. Really, you talk about sort of sliding doors in a sense where they went on to win the replay one nil. And, you know, surreal experience never looked back. And is that, you know, the greatest manager as you know, along with Brian Clough, arguably, but then I got in the England squad then I had the injury.

So that was the beginning of me of sort of getting out in real life and thinking about, well, if this doesn't work out, because it doesn't for a lot of people. And for one reason or another, you know, you don't get a contract to get injured. And I see so many guys in the City. And I think it's so important. And one of the things I'd love to do and do more of is do that mentoring for the players. Because, look, the Premier League is our biggest exports, the biggest thing, and at the top end, the money is incredible.

But you're talking about one person, you know, max, again to make it so you get all these kids coming through the academy, you know, I'm going to be a footballer, where's Plan B was the educational where's the track to be something else, you can be a lawyer, you can be an accountant, you can be a broker you can be you can be a physiotherapist, you can be a chemist, you can work in oil, you can work in marketing, you can work in television, you can there's this whole world out there that you can be and you can do.

And this is time now to start reading and start doing that educational piece of training. Because, you know, hate that when people say that footballers are stupid. Well, they're not. They're not really they're just not educated.

Peter Higgins 07:35

They've not been prepared John. And that's the essence of it. So I wanted to ask you that. Because you as a role model now in the sense of your transition, how you've done it and how smooth you've done it. Who were your role models and who inspired you as a teenager to be calm or want to become a professional football player?

John Salako 07:52

Yes. So I mean, it's really weird. My mum was my Headmistress. My mum was a teacher headmistress, and she was actually my Headmistress. Unfortunately, yeah, my dad worked for BP, and he was a footballer. He played he's not good left foot, but he's played at uni played for a local side. But he died in a car crash, you know, when I was five years old. So unfortunately, I didn't have much of a you know, it's one of those things I always grew up with.

Everyone else had a dad and I didn't but that was really weird. But that's just one of those things you live with. So really, I suppose my mum brought us up. She wanted discipline. I just I was always out playing when I was a kid. I just played us play cricket and football. I was playing one or the other, you know jumpers down as goalposts and you know, jumpers on the fence.

You know, you had someone on a bat someone on a ball. I played at break time, played at lunchtime, played after school. You went out to youth club you played just ran around. So I mean, my first idol was Daley Thompson. So you know, back then there wasn't really a lot of football, there was Match of the Day, but you'd watch the Olympics, you'd watch the Commonwealth Games and you know, some inspired by your Steve Crams,you know, but Daley Thompson was the man he was the athlete. He was the gladiator that was my first role model.

And of course, you know you love to Kevin Keegans, your Trevor Brookings, I can remember having my Patricks you know, you want to wear the boots that your idols wear and Kevin was the man I love that Liverpool side. And then Dalglish and people like that and postgame on Wednesday was Arsenal Highbury with Liam Brady and the guys, do you know what it was? It was really weird. I mean, I played Kent schools cricket. I never funnily enough, Kent never picked me for football. I played for Surrey, but I just I just always had a determination. I mean, it's brought up in a council house. We had five kids, I had three brothers and a sister and I’m the second youngest, so you know, severely bullied and battered.

And it was just, I think there was a realisation because we poor we didn't have enough money and there was never enough we didn't we didn't go out for meals. We didn't go on holidays. We didn't really have very much and I think just from a very early age, you know, I had a paper round when I was 14, I cleaned up in a chip shop to earn money.

So you know, started earning money and it was nice to have some money to buy yourself some nice stuff get that Pringle jumper or that Gabicci.

So you get to 14/15 you discover girls and you know, you start sort of getting a life but there was just this massive determination there was there was just this ambition to say, listen, and I can remember doing it. I can remember saying to myself, you know, it's like getting out of that little village, that little town, you're gonna I'm better than this. I'm gonna go to the big city and I'm gonna make something myself and I'm going to come back in my Range Rover and my Rolex.

Peter Higgins 10:29

Absolutely. Now you've already touched on it slightly. John, you went from being an apprentice to being you were part of the rise of Crystal Palace. If I may add that your club captain at the time was none other than Gareth Southgate. And in that squad, you had Alan Pardew, Mark Bright, Ian Wright. Andy Gray, Stan Collymore just to name a handful of stars. What I mean that was staggering for a young guy.

John Salako 10:52

No, it was incredible because what really happened there Stevie Coppel came he obviously finished a very early age but he just he brought a squad together. He got rid of the old squad and Wrighty, Brighty came in Pemberton. I mean, the original Captain Goeff Thomas, you know, and then you had your Andy Grays and Andy Thorns and Eric Youngs and Gareth was I think Eric was a year younger than me as an apprentice and he was coming out.

So I came through Richard Shaw. And then we had that immense success, as I say, the rise of sort of getting into the the big flight top flight and the lads just flew so and then obviously, we had the next team obviously, once Ian, I remember when Ian Wright left, it was almost like when JFK died or Elvis died, you know, just remember where you were. When you heard that news that Ian Wright had moved to Arsenal and we went no!

So but then yeah, then we had the next team was Gareth Southgate. But saying that you touched on, Stan Collymore came and he was arguably the most talented player I've worked with, you know, along with obviously, Ian Wright. But Stan was incredible. But it was fierce. You know, it was it was tough. You came through there. But we all wanted to play you know, you know, Stan came and he had to fight for his place.

Eddie McGoldrick on one side of me on the other side that was Wrighty and Brighty up front. I used to be striker when I was in the youth team. I was a striker and I scored goals for fun and Stevie Coppell came to me and said, listen, I've got a place for you out on the left do you want to do I'll play anywhere gaffer I play anywhere just give me a shirt. And you know, sort of at the sound fortunately, I you know, because they were so good. I ended up sort of staying out there but every now and then Mark Bright would get injured not play up front with Wrighty or, you know, and actually say to Wright, we don't need a big man.

Just need quick, skillful men. We don't need that Brighty and it was awesome. You know, then we're fiercely determined. And they're the best pros because they came in and what you had, they was so hungry. That was so determined. I was so ambitious. Wrighty, he was so effervescent. It was so charismatic. And he just came in every day and he'd be like, did you see Ronaldo? Did you see what he did? Did you see that Barcelona game? Did you see Real Madrid? Did you see and we were practising those tricks. We just lived and breathed football. And we were so hungry.

He was just so determined. And so you know, so fired up for success because he come late, you know, he came to Palace like 21 had been rejected and they just had this fierce ambition to be a footballer and when he had his opportunity he took it and just embracing it with people like Southgate not the most talented player but he took everything on board like all the sports science all the psychology all the nutrition everything the stretching the yoga the he used everything because he's you know he really bright boys we can see now he's gone on to be England manager but as you say when you look back at those squads when you think Alan Pardew went on to be a manager you know successful manager you know Brighty’s had a very successful career, Wrighty, he's at the careers that these guys have had Gareth southgate's England manager you know so many success stories within that Geoff Thomas with these foundation in incredible is he Sir Jeff is knighthoods and stuff and what he's going to do with his foundation and when he you know you look at how good Nigel Martyn was only the best keeper I've worked with just incredible talent it was so much there so yeah and incredible sort of 12 years at Palace that you know capsulated two different teams but yeah so special.

Peter Higgins 14:10

I’d like to go back if I may because you said you know what, when I was growing up my mum was working it wasn't brought up with with a dad because he sadly passed away we didn't have very much do you recall that first professional salary that you got and what you actually went out and bought not obviously the the tag labels and all the rest of it. Or the Rolex What did you buy John?

John Salako 14:29

Yeah, no, it's incredible. Really? I suppose Yeah, because my Mum is actually more famous than I am. She used to teach at Norbury High and in around Croydon, Norbury’Stretham and there's these girls that she taught and remembered her so she'd be like, Oh my God, you're Jenny Salako’s son, you know? Yeah, okay. Yes. How's your mum? You know, she's she's great. But I remember when I said when I signed an apprenticeship, what they used to do is to give you a pay 50 pounds your mum got 50 pounds. And then when you sign a professional contract, I think was something like 200 pounds a week and then that comes to you.

When you're an apprentice, you get this. And I can't you know what, it's amazing really because I lived in Westerham, Kent and so I was like miles away, the training ground was in Mitcham. I had to get a bus from Westerham and an hour and a half to Croydon, so walk across to West Croydon to get a train to Mitcham and then walk down to the training ground is take about two and a half hours each way anyway, but what it was it was 100 pounds from our fare. And you got paid, you have to work a month to get paid. So that first month I actually what I was washing up in a Chinese restaurant on a Friday and a Saturday night, £12.50 a night to make, 25 pound a week and that month. And it's funny that that did actually because on a Friday, Saturday, we had to wash up and was near where the door was. And every time the waiters went in and out, everyone in the restaurant could see you, you'd look out. And it was just I was just so embarrassed.

I was just, you know what, I've got to do this. But you know, I was like, oh, look at you know, look at our poor lad washing up, I was like, You know what, I'm not going to be washing up for long. I'm not washing up, this isn't me, I’m destined for better things. And this and that, that gave me you know, sort of little things like that. But yeah, I did that for a month, which I love. The food was great. But again, you know, in your head, you just had to you have to do what you needed to do. Mum couldn't say here's that 100 pound. And in a way, you know, I can't look at that. And we had a team of that you had a team of fighters, you scrap and you come off the street, you've got a toughness, you've got that ruggedness, you know as to cycle to score to seven from Westerham six miles, seven miles, you can't get fit, you kind of get tough, you kind of have a mentality that is going to get you through. And that's a weird thing that kids don't really have now, you know, the South Americans have it, the Africans have it. The Eastern Europeans have it, they have that rugged, better, real tough life. Whereas our kids have got the ability.

Maybe things are just too easy for him. It's on you know, you're on big money before you even know you're born. And it's easy to get into a comfort zone and you're a Didier Drogba and you're sending money back to Ivory Coast if you're you know, even Zinedin Zidane, who, you know, off the streets of Paris, you know, if you look how successful France have been, and, you know, because they've come off the back streets of Paris. And, you know, from Morocco, and they think in about Tevez and those South Americans they did, in the favelas in Brazil and Argentina and Chile. And you know, when the South Americans know, they're brought up on the streets, and they're tough, you know, so that, you know, the Eastern Europeans, they, you know, they know what, it's tough. And, you know, even the workforce, you know, you see there's just a different kind of work ethic, where there's apathy, and really want to put a good shift in and a good grasp. And we have to bring these people to do the jobs that we don't here which it's all kind of that societal issue. So anyway, sorry, I'm digressing.

Peter Higgins 17:43

No, no, no, it's absolutely fine. I want to say because you've touched on a really important point there, because of the lack of guidance, and sometimes education as well. During your football career. John, what if any guidance were given regarding saving, or investing? You know, outside of your mum being some guidance regarding that?

John Salako 17:59

Yeah, you know what, nothing. So it's really quite disappointing. And it's one of those elephants in the room for the lads, in a sense, where you are very reliant on your family, you are very reliant on the who's around you to give you that so no, I mean, I you know, sort of obviously, I remember my brother saying, you know, he said to me, the funny thing is, is, the more you earn the more in debt you'll be. No you won't. And it's so true. It is true. The more you earn, the more you spend, the more you get your credit cards and you get your that I can remember my sister had a job in the city. So we said right, we'll buy a flat in East Croydon.. And I was only I was about 18 at the time. And I think my first contract was about 200 pounds a week then I think I went up to 1500 pounds a week, I think something like that, which I thought oh my god, this is great. And I remember buying my first flat and I was gonna buy it my sister and then my sister then said she didn't want to work in the city anymore. She gave that job up, so she didn't.

So I had to make this decision whether to buy this flat on my own. So I did. And I can remember the interest rates were 7%, 7% at the time and within six months, they'd gone to 15% and they were all screaming at the moment. It's gone from nothing to like 2% to 3% then it was seven it went to 15 my mortgage doubled and I can remember going to Steve Coppell going I can't you know I'm struggling here and he's like well do you want to sign a new contract?

I was like, What are we thinking and then I was you know, spoke to my agent he was like, No, we're not signing that and it's like, so I said, you know, just wait, just wait you know, just see the season out and I was like, but luckily we had the cup run. So it's getting some bonuses from the cup run and you know, but it was a real struggle.

It was it was a nightmare. It was like for that six months are struggling to cover everything you know because I think the one thing that I always say to people which is really weird but you know you pay 40 50% tax, so you know your PAYE so you know you sort of you know the way it would work is if you're on 1500 pounds a week it'd be like you get a grand a week in your wages and then 500 would be like you get that once a year or twice a year as a signing on fee or whatever you call it. So you know if you’re on four grand a month, and then you pay 4% tax, you know leaves you with two 1400 If your mortgage is 1800 pounds and you know your bills, and like everyone's doing at the moment bills through the roof, you got your mortgage, you got your car, you're not thinking about holidays or Rolexes or, you know, you just said what did I buy? You know, and he's like, Well, but flat, and when they got into more debt, funny thing was, I think I bought it for 65,000. A year later, it was worth about 55.

That was a crazy time. But so no one gave you that advice. You know, even I can remember there was no PFA there, I remember, when I had a flat you know, I remember someone came in sold me an AVC or something, you know, because when you sign up, and I remember Allan Smith saying, well, you need to join the PFA. And then I spoke to the PFA. And they said, Well, no, you have to have your PFA pension first you can't have an AVC.

So it was really funny that so I had to get my money back. So it was really weird. So it was kind of like someone to come along, say, No, you should have this and then I'll go I'll have that but it was the wrong thing. But no one really, it's one of my pet real things is the PFA should be sitting down with you. Soon as you should. 16, 17, 18, this is how it works your PFA pension, right where are you? What's your contract? What you're doing your insurance your career ending?

You need a little bit of this you need what what are you looking at the moment you looking to buy a car? Okay, well, we'll see what do you want we can we can advise you here's a good accountant is you know, maybe you should start talking some legals you start, maybe start doing some savings, you know, to some basics, to start you off. And then just to give you that grant, but we didn't have anything.

Peter Higgins 21:31

I need to ask you then, you know, you spent a lot of time at the Eagles, right. And throughout your career, you were under Ron Atkinson, Kevin Keegan, Alan curbishley, Alan Pardew and Martin Allen, as you've mentioned, I think you've worked on those many leaders, right? What were their main leadership skills and traits that you valued from them, to enable you to take some of the stuff that they no one else was sharing with you regarding investing or looking after yourself for the long term?

John Salako 22:00

I think Steve was the most Stevie Coppell was the most what do you call it? I think impressive. He was an idol of mine. You know, when he came, he was Man United England. And when he came, he was seen as a very bright guy, he was very down to earth. And he you know, he didn't say much when he did say things, they would be very important.

Like, he would say things like football was only a stepping stone to the rest of your life. And I remember saying things like you know, just be nice to people on the way up because you'll meet those same people on the way down and little nuggets to go like he was a wide player in turn me into a wide player and he talked to me about my positioning and the way I should think and they got Steve Harrison was another fantastic coach. But you know, Steve was very strong, he put the right round pegs in round holes and square pegs it was very important he understood people and their role and and what he had was a group of players that he worked with.

So his man management was fantastic. And he taught him with the players like Wrighty and Brighty and creating relationships and keeping things very simple. And then the tactics were always spot on to where we were in who we were playing up against. And he was very good like that. So I mean Ron Atkinson was completely different it was a big flamboyant character didn't coach but was very good man management and made you feel really great. He'd be like, you're a great player. You know, we play you know, if we play Man United, Giggsy, I'd have you all day long you know that.

You know, I remember him doing a team talk at Coventry once and he you know, we were playing against you know, sort of Liverpool Jamie Redknapp, Fowler and McManaman, all those kind of players and he just looked us all in the eyes and I wouldn't swap one of you for any of them.

You guys are better than them. And we went out to beat Liverpool 2-1at Highfield Road, but we had Darren Huckerby. We had Noel Wheelan and we had Richard Shaw, you know, we had Kevin Richardson and Gary McAllister, we had good players. You know, just believe in yourself. Peter Ndlovu.

And, you know, that was a great side. And it's really weird. And I came down and I signed for Kevin Keegan, I nearly signed for Kevin Keegan at Newcastle. But they ended up signing Ginola instead which I was gutted, they should have signed both of us, I loved David Ginola, one of my favourite players of all time just and then finally signed for Kevin at Fulham. And that was really weird again another idol and other you know, but he was another guiding coach. He was a man manager. And he was very strong he just made people feel on top of the world you know, it made you feel like you were the best player and again, another great side you know, Pesky Salido and Paul Bracewell played with Peter Beardsley, just awesome, you know, he had big players and it was really funny, but it's amazing.

I remember we're having a meeting once with Kevin and we heard this helicopter come and it must have been Al-Fayed, had landed on the training ground and he was coming round and Kevin was gone. And of course, what we realised is Kevin was was saying to us, look, lads, it's been great working with you, but you know, I've been offered the England job and I'm going to take the England job, then unfortunately, you know, I'd love to stay and work with you, but I can't turn it down and he's gone.

Al-Fayed is walking through the front door and Kevin. Kevin was gone out the back door so I don't think he wanted to have that conversation face to face but yeah, that was interesting.

And then it moves on, obviously Curbishley at Charlton. And again, you know, great coaches very, you know, work with Mervyn Day and Keith Peacock, you know, they're very organised attention to detail. I suppose Pardew so a lot of the good managers attention to detail.

They know their players, you know, they're very, very a lot of pattern of play a lot of repetition. Not, you know, not interesting, not exciting. But for player, you've all got to know where you are set plays, where you are on a pitch, how you're going to play how you you know, how you set up against different teams, how you combat different styles of playing different playing philosophies that you will be playing up against, because a lot of these teams like, you know, Charlton, and Palace, Coventry, we're always the underdogs, you know, nine times out of 10.

You know, if you're playing against the Liverpool's, Man United’s you’ve, you know, you stop them playing, and then somehow you hope one of your top players are going to produce something.

So that was I think that's what my takeaway was, you know, I'd love to have played one of the big teams, I remember when Wrighty went to Arsenal, I said, they just said to me was running all over the place and tracking back and you know, sort of working like he had to do when he's at Palace. And they said, What are you doing? With no, no, no, don't do that. You get up there and score goals? And we'll do. And of course, he didn't have to do any of that, because they were better. And they were, but they were like, yeah, right, you just stay up there and score goals. And he was like, This is fabulous.

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Peter Higgins 26:46

So let me ask you this John with regards to all those strategies, and all those skill sets that you learned from all those managers and all those different teams? How did you transfer those because you've got involved with property, and involved in the media and the finance sector, you took all those together. And without even going on to higher education, like you said, those these rugby players go on to, you've used all of that. And you've built this portfolio of opportunities for yourself, to ensure that you're not one of the fewer individuals that sit in there, you know, in the 40s and 50s, struggling, you're doing quite well make investing wise.

John Salako 27:21

Do you know what, it's just being streetwise is just having a good sense of what life's about, and the way the world works. And I think, you know, there's so many principles within that, as you just said, what you have to do, you have to be disciplined, you have to be hard working, you have to eat right, you have to think about what you're doing the opposition, your role within a team. And the communication aspect of it is where you need to talk to teammates, you need to understand, you know, it's like, you have to understand what your position is within that team.

So and as I said, I think when I got injured, it was a case of looking at the world and thinking well, okay, you know, this might not work. And then you start thinking actually, how does that work and start getting involved with other things and, and I think that obviously gravitated towards some of you, you know, some of the friends I met a friend of mine, Mike Terry had a photocopying business, IT business.

So you kind of spend time around business people, and you meet people, you see how it works very, very early, I met a builder, a guy, and he said, look, you know, I can build, if you want to put some money in we'll buy site and we'll we'll build, we built a couple of houses in Epsom, we were able to do three or four sites together. And it's a shame really, because I really, you know, I think he moved away, and we kind of lost touch and didn't do any more, but I would have loved to have carried on. And you know, I remember looking at some plots on the Crown Estate, jee I wish I'd have bought that one, I remember going home to the wife, you know, sort of saying, Well, I'm gonna buy this plot, and it's like, a million quid.

And for an acre on the Crown Estate, and it was like, wow, okay, you could, you know, put a couple on there with a bit of planning and stuff. And it was just scary numbers. And, you know, it was too scary. But, you know, I always had a little bit more of a, go get, you know, a little bit more of a thicker skin with taking, a little bit of that risk, but I didn't think it was a risk. I just somehow I thought no, this is for an acre on, you know, on there now would be three, 4 million probably or whatever and more, you know, so houses go for six, eight 10 million on there. So there's regrets.

You know, there's things where sometimes you just you could see an opportunity that ah yeah, I should do this. And, and to be honest, I think the bricks and mortar is just, you can't really ever go, you know, you say you can't ever go wrong. But in essence that did get me into trouble in a sense where I put everything into property. So I ended up sort of 20-30 buy-to-lets. And I ended up buying a couple of sites up in Kingswood, which is near Epsom out in that area.

So I was working on planning and I was living in one and working on planning another one. And obviously the worst thing is you talk about lessons learned is that I sort of had to borrow and that's a stretch because I think I remember thinking I was I think it was about 32 and you start I started thinking, do you know what, it's all going to come to an end soon I need to maximise these next 2,3,4 years, while I'm playing, you got that income, and you can do stuff. So I pushed the boat out and did it. And that coincided with 2008.

So that crash was horrific, really, in a sense, where, you know, you sort of have, I don't know, you know, sort of 10 million pounds worth of property, you know, you owe three, four or 5 million, and, you know, 50%, and then all of a sudden, it crashes and only worth seven and the bank going (knocks on table), hey, yeah, and then you're, you're having to fund it, and you're looking for ways out. And that, you know, that really is probably a classic, classic developer construction, property, empire, you know, where you push too much, you buy something too big, you know, the market crashes, you know, it's easy as interest rates go up. And all of a sudden, you have a funding issue, and people are pulling the plug, and, you know, you find yourself in a real issue, but, you know, people do it with stocks and shares, you know, where I remember sat there in the afternoons back in the 90s, buying tech stocks and thinking, oh, I'm gonna have, you know, sort of, and then next minute, you've got your 50 grands portfolio crashes, and it's worth, you know, you're sort of like, oh, my god, yeah, people are doing that with Bitcoin.

So, wherever the market is, it can be volatile, you've got you've got to know what you're doing. And I think you've got to be sensible. You know, what I will say is, there is a certain amount of luck, you make your own luck, of course, you know, you just got to be careful, you have a sensible, but, you know, there's so many people will say, you know, just make so much money.

I mean, I've seen, you know, you see people make so much money on stocks and shares and in property,, even when people were buying, you know, putting a deposit down on flats, even before it was finished. They doubled their money, you know, just selling it on. And it was crazy. And he thought that, yeah, I'm gonna get into this. And of course, you think, yeah, this part, and then it's just when you get in. So it's really like annuities, when you got your pension, and it's payments are 16 20%, you know, and there's all of a sudden, when you come to take yours, it's what's available, what's in the market, but again, for 4-5% is, there's nothing you can do.

It's timing, it's luck, intelligence, you know, that the intelligent people will always make money. And I think the more educated you are, you know, the more sensible, but, you know, it's just really your risk appetite. You know, sometimes you just got to be, you have got to be in the right place, like, just with life, you know, who knows, by the grace of God that we go with, you know, with your health with things. So, you know, life is like that so much. But in all honesty, the more you know, the more educated you are the you know, the more intelligent people will always make money.

Peter Higgins 32:38

Very true. I agree with that. Now, you've got three children, John.Do they all hold ISA accounts? And if so, who sorts out what goes into them? Is that you the man or is it the boss? Your wife? Who could wife?

John Salako 32:49

Yes. So yeah, no, I went through that as well. So divorce 2012, my property crash 2008. Divorce. Let's not talk about it. A lesson. It happens. And yeah, that was a painful, difficult time where everything sort of crashes in and comes down on you, which is just life. So you deal with it. And you crack on and you move on. But yeah, from an early age I just said to the kids, I started up ISAs for them, which then I turned into their, like standard life, or they SIPPs?

So you can put sort of up to three, four grand into those tax free for the year sort of build up a pot. So the two older ones, so Charlotte's 27 this year, Lewis is going to be 26. And Alexei is gonna be 14, damn, she's going to be 14 this December, which is scary. So they've all sort of got little pots, so they just go away. Obviously, the older ones now they've got control of that, whereas I try to keep control of it at least till they're 16-18. And yeah, so there is something there. But, you know, I like the idea of the pension is really starting a pension pot for them, you know, that's building up and they, you know, they don't have to massively worried about contributing too much into that, but whatever they put into that will, will be in there for them just that initial start.

But yeah, as you say, you know, if you can put you know, sort of maybe some ISA as well, you know, that's just tucked away in a sense where you can access that which I suppose is the best thing about the ISAs or the worst thing really because…

Peter Higgins 34:24

Take it when they want and do what they want with it. Exactly. Yeah.

John Salako 34:27

Yeah. So as I say, I think with the shares you know, I say in the 90s used to, you know, the Barclays account I'm sure still do with a few shares in it but you know, sort of getting those those looked after by someone else but really, it locked down I started in eToro account.

Peter Higgins 34:44

You've mentioned Apple and Tesla shares so you've got a little account there.

John Salako 34:49

Yes, just a couple of grand here and there. You know, sort of thought by those but I don't even know how to you know, keep an eye on it. And I did an eToro event at Palace, one of the sponsors, I was hoping they would sort of sit me down and sort of show me how to use it properly. But I need someone like you to show me how it works.

And I can maximise accounts like that. And it's just sort of playing with it and dabbling, which is more more outside, you know, someone will say to me look, obviously, common sense, or you read something, or someone was saying, Apple or bringing out a watch, you know, now's the time to buy or Tesla producing batteries for our manufacturers.

I got market cornered right now. And it's just different, different things. I mean, I have I do work for a couple of companies where, and amazingly sorry, I mean, I'm a bit wary of time of going too much, you know, so people have come to me, so I'm an ambassador for a couple of companies. And one of the companies I work for is a company that basically turns sports stars into a share price. And basically, we're working on footballers and cricketers at the moment, so we only trade in Africa, Asia, South America. We were looking to come into America and Europe, but obviously there's a lot of legislation and a lot of red tape that needs to be jingled at the moment. So I think the token launches in October, amazingly, I've started talking about the metaverse and crypto NFTs. And it's like -

Peter Higgins 36:17

All digital projects I'm talking you talking about now?

John Salako 36:20

It's yeah, it's your platform. And it's incredible. So really, from my point, I basically sort of frontman I do a lot of the pieces to camera.

You know, talking about Ronaldo is $56.44 Pence, you know who to buy and who to sell. So you got all these traders that are so it's a bit like fantasy football, meet share trading. Everyone's got a passion for sport, whether it's cricket or football. Football is the biggest one. So, you know this weekend I'll do like a Coach's Corner so scouting report so I'll highlight a couple of youngsters that you may look at maybe Harvey Elliott at Liverpool, maybe someone at Paris Saint-Germain or Juventus, because we cover the five leagues, Ligue 1, La Liga, Bundesliga, the Premier League so it's brilliant, so my mind is very much football oriented and say and I sort of pick out footballers in my scouting corner and then I might go right yeah Tottenham are playing Nottingham Forest this weekend, it’s gonna be tough game, I could see Harry Kane grabbing a couple, Son’s on fire Moura a couple $100 to you know, sort of a price and it's, you know, what, it's exciting. It's interesting.

And then obviously, this this exciting bit, you know, they sort of tasked me we're hoping to get an ambassador's programme where, you know, we get ex footballers and create NFTS hopefully. And you know, there's that and obviously, there's utility side to it, which makes it very interesting. Funnily enough, I've just done a couple of bits for Socios who do the fan token and they are another sponsor of Palace so really I suppose as an ambassador of Palace not official yet they should sign me up really? I can't believe they haven't snapped me up you know, they just yeah, if you're watching this Brighty Come on, get Steve Parish to sign me I'm there.

I love Palace, Palace is home. So no, it's brilliant. So this is a there's so much that goes on and so much to learn so much new stuff because the one thing I found about I know nothing about crypto six months ago, I knew nothing about crypto I knew nothing about NFT's all I knew there was Bitcoin, Ethereum, people were talking about blockchain and, and you know, it's like, okay.

Peter Higgins 38:18

I can see from your passion about everything we've spoken about so far. John, you've got a passion to learn. And I think there's so many people who get to 21-23, 24-25-45 and they've got a little bit of money and think I'm done with the world I know everything there is to know and I like that and they don't but you're so candid and open you just like I didn't know anything about that six months ago. So you're now going full tilt into it and that's the brilliance of it and that's how you grow and that's how you nurture that's how you get better.

John Salako 38:46

You know, Absolutely I think you know, in a way if I could I was thinking if I could tell people anything is just open mind enthusiasm, passion, hard work, just keep pushing this stuff to learn this stuff obviously depends on how you are you know, I just you know I've got you know passion for life and passion for doing what I love sport you know, golf, tennis cricket.

But business is so exciting. I mean people often say to me, what are you doing with yourself now I say I'm in I mean business finance, bit of property business finance. Really? What are you doing that for? It’s interesting I love meeting in business owners love meeting people in you know, it's fantastic great guys the only annoying thing is I think I get pulled from pillar to post them people you I think there's a lot of very successful people that are very successful because they're good at using people, you know you get can you do this for me can you do that?

You know he's you know in life to be successful. You do need to have friends, you do have people but you need to know how to use the right people for you for your advantage. You got to be a little bit ruthless. You got to be a little bit selfish at times. But I always say to the kids, you know, dare to dream but you can, you know better work but have ambition. Just an open mind and anything worthwhile in life is hard work.

It really is your relationships in life. Business, no one's ever gonna come and go, do you know what your John Salako, you know, come in, I'm gonna give you a million quid. And, you know, when that runs out, I'll give you another million pounds, you know, coming out the house, and in a way, you know, football is they're winning the lottery, now they're winning the jackpot signing these contracts, you know, four or five years of that money you're done. But you know, no one comes in gives them something, you know, it's just if someone gives you 20 million, it means you're worth 60 million to them or less, well, they're worth it. So I was prepared to pay something for you.

Because, you know, they know you're going to bring value. Sadly, I think at the moment, a lot of players not bringing value. But it's far too inflated. It's, it's just gone crazy. I mean, even this, this transfer window now that means I think it's 2 billion being spent and the like, we thought the world was going to change and be a better place because of COVID. And because we have to be more human and are sensible. It's got even worse, it's like we come out of that. And it's like they were walked into a war. You know, everything's skyrocketing. It's more about money and profiteering than it's ever been. So it's quite scary in a way.

But I think just the amazing thing is football is it is a working man's game played by working class lads. And those that yeah, whereas you know, as say, cricket and probably rugby, there's probably a more middle class to upper class and there is a higher education and more that business orientated, which it'd be nice to bring that into football. And I think there is a there's a massive piece to be done where there needs to be more of a roadmap, and more help for these kids that brought in a six, eight now sold a dream, you know, to be a footballer. And sadly, as I said, one 2% are going to make it have a career and the way they'd sold this illusion that they're not going to make it but the one thing I would say is that principals that's been in that dressing room and learning, you know, that ambition, that drive and that training, and that desire, and those principles that you take into your football are the same in life.

So you know, just keep those keep that passion, keep that enthusiasm, you just got to find somebody else. And I say to kids, you know, if you if you go and get paid two 300 quid in the amateur leagues played football are brilliant. But if not just go and play for fun, go and play for fun and enjoy yourself and then get a trade get a profession go and do life is brilliant, is exciting out there. There's lots and lots of good things. But unfortunately, you know, you got to work for for those things. But it is down to everyone and I was you know, obviously you have to be mentally strong.

You know, I'd say you need to be fit, you need to be strong, you need to be for life. And keep that tie in a sense where I think be realistic about what you can achieve and what you can do. But obviously I it's funny saying that be careful what you wish for. You know, because you've got to know what it takes to to be that. So everyone wants to be famous and rich? What does that mean? What does it take to be that? Can you really cope? And if you really add a half a glimpse of what their lives really like, you'd be like, oh, so I'm okay.

I'm alright. Because life isn't easy for everyone thinks it's so easy. But I say you know, it's not, it's not more, you know, the more you take, the more you have to give. And that's just life.

Peter Higgins 43:10

Let me ask you this final question, John, because I'm concerned about the time we've been on here. And I want to ask you this, because it's quite important for me, I know it's important to you, you've been involved with a number of charities over the years, John just wanted you to share the two that's more closer to your heart at this moment that you're actually working with, because I know that you've done loads in the past in your communities as well.

John Salako 43:29

Yeah, just some, charity has always been a big passion.

So there's Children's Trust here at Tadworth, which has always been local to me. And these guys, it's amazing charity, there's because amazingly, if you go through major trauma, whether you've been in a road accident, or I know t had a problem with, you know, the chokes on a grape, and, you know, sort of suffocated and got brain damage. And when you go into hospital, and if you've had a major trauma where, you know, sort of you take a blow to the head, you've been in a car accident or kids have gotten knocked over.

Once you're treated, you just you have to come you have to come out of hospital and there's no way for you to go and rehabilitate, learn to walk, learn to talk, learn to just be a you know, as you know, try and get as much mobility back and sound and vision and life back. And they do an incredible job where, you know, down at Tadworth here and I think they're opening somewhere in the Midlands so that they can access that but for the whole country and it's just such an incredible charity so desperately needed. So I've been a patron of theirs for many years.

You know, Geoff Thomas, bless his heart, you know, obviously contracted leukaemia at a transfusion from his sister. And it's incredible well and I remember being, you know, went to do a presentation that had FA headquarters and Fabio Capello was there and Geoff did this presentation and they looked at me and I was there with Mark Bright and Ian Wright and they were like, Oh, I'm going to London to Paris Do you fancy coming? I'm like what? 350 miles on a bike in three four days. So are you crazy? Anyway, they talked me into it and absolutely loved it. Love cycling.

Loved the event and just raise so much money I think been London Paris within four or five times. Can't I'm not looking at the tour yet. It's just I think he's given up now but it's just what Geoff's done is just incredible, but he's got a proper engine and you know, incredible what he's done and raised so much money for Leukaemia Research and the third one is I grew up in a little village in Westerham Kent, you know, Churchill country. You know, we've got the statue there, you know, and Hever Castle.

But there's only two players, two lads that have come grown up in Westerham have gone on to play for their country. And I'm one footballer and Alan Igglesden, played cricket for England. And he contracted a brain tumour about with about 17/18 years ago, and he's the longest surviving or he was the longest surviving brain tumour patient by you know, I think it was 8-10 years was the last one, but he lasted he saw in about 17-18 years. And incredibly, he sadly passed away early on late last year, which is, you know, just so tragic, but we still have a foundation in his memory. It's called Iggy’s Fund, and we'd sort of do charity games, cricket, golf, and some some some fun sort of dinners and stuff like that to carry on in his memory.

So yeah, brain tumour, leukaemia and the Children's Trust are probably the three that stand out. But there's so much so many other charities. Obviously, I'm now involved in a company called Creating Lifesavers, and that is defibrillators and CPR and First Aid training. But you know, it's amazing in Europe, and some of the rest of the world survival rates are up to 65 70%. Sadly, here, it's less than 10%. So unless we get the devices out unless we have the CPR training and the awareness, sadly, people keep dying. And I don't know why it's hit football so so much, but I'm talking about Ehiogu, thinking about Justin Edinburgh, are you thinking about Glen Hoddle Survived. You know, obviously, Ericsson is a big one, Muamba you know, Ericsson on a football pitch, he’s back playing in the Premier League.

So, you know, far too many people are dying needlessly, because there aren't the devices and the training there. So, yeah, yeah, creating lifesavers is hopefully my partner, David Sullivan lost four friends and he's so passionate about it. You know, it's just very, it really does get to you and makes you very emotional. Yeah. So that's another sort of passionate thing.

Peter Higgins 47:23

No, thank you ever so much for that John. So what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna add all those names to the write-up when I put this together. But I just want to thank you ever so much, John, for coming on this investing matters podcast with me. So tell everybody that was John Salako, Crystal Palace legend, Eagles legend, finance and media consultant, you can find him various different platforms doing commentating on sports still, and they'll be looking into the metaverse and NFT's going forward as well, John, so wish you all the very best with everything, mate.

John Salako 47:52

Incredibly bless you. Thank you very much for having me and God bless your entire take care.

Peter Higgins 47:56

Thank you very much, John. Take care, God bless.

LSE 48:04

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