Roundtable Discussion; The Future of Mineral Sands. Watch the video here.
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If only it was straight forward as that.It clearly isn't and that is why the co is having a strategic review.not into the doomsday scenario here.Weatherly see these threads so are aware of the chatter.What would happen here if a jv appeared for Kitumba? Fat lady isnt singing here
Bill, I'd mentioned that payments due in the near term can't be met? The problem as i see it and why the share price is now so low, is that a significantly shorter mine life for Tschudi will likely mean that it never actually pays for itself of the life of the mine. That will make it problematic in terms of rescheduling debt - as previously the asset had enough intrinsic value to cover the outstanding debt. There is also the issue that there is no way that it can really use equity to help it, given the size of the debt compared to the market cap of the company. In the event of an asset sale, Orion would have to be happy with what they get out of that, as the asset would probably need to be clean for there to be any interest (rather than coming with the debt liability attached to it).
Yes BTB - can’t make all, but can make some. This is probably what they have been negotiating!
Working together is the only way Orion will get a decent proportion of their loan back. Here's an idea, why don't they sue Rod Webster for being such a twat.
Garyn the company has said that not ALL payments can be met.It is also in discussions with Orion rescheduling borrowing to a longer term structure.The downside here is the water ingress solution if there is one and if so the impact on C1 costs. I am sure that Orion and Weatherly are working together on this.Why wouldn't they?
Certainly hasn't helped that they have been re-scheduled several times, and even without the problems meeting the payments due wouldn't have happened. Originally payments of facility B were due at the end of December and end of March i believe. The company has continued to warn that payments due in the near term can't be met. Just seems like Orion might be starting to run out of patience and things are coming to a head, hence the strategic review which should be completed prior to the next loan due dates.
Humping.....lol Read it tooooo quickly myself...and thought wtf is he humping now....lol...my mistake....
garyn: the repayments issue is that 3 payments are due at once which is quite a bite. They are generating cash and could afford at least one payment but I understood once WTI made the first payment then there are no further changes allowed so its sink or swim which is why they've never made a payment.
Jenny from memory there wasn't any copper available for Orion as the copper was already hedged.Another plus point is that the US dollar has gained some mileage and I think the rate is rising.When I last looked was 12.7 to the dollar.I still think the POCwill rise again due to economic demand exceeding supply. Next quarters update should be more positive. Not iver till the day lady sings.At least the sp has levelled off now. 0.22/0.25 Garyn thanks for your input.
That same crew do it all over the place - generally just moronic one liners about it going to the moon, and anything actually factual tends to be a cut-and-paste job! They also have the temerity to bang on about being investors/invested when all they are looking to do is sell into a spike and rarely hold for more than a day or two at the most! Strangely they also always claim to have made loads of money when often they are posting that they've just topped up at close to the top of the spike...
Thanks garyn, much appreciated.
Seen degsy on another bb pumping the stock like crazy whilst the sp is bombing same sort of thing that was going on here a few days ago mmmm
Jenny, it's not all over yet, but not a good situation for a company of this size to find itself in. With regards to the hedging, the only thing that i can really think is that Orion may have engaged in a bit of goodwill there to allow Weatherly to sell the copper at the best possible price. Had it exercised that hedge then for Q1 2018 it would have resulted in just 2,000 tonnes of copper being available to WTI to sell at full market price (total production of circa 4,100t and 700t per month as part of the hedging deal with Orion). It is also quite likely that there wasn't sufficient unhedged copper available (not sure without looking back at the hedges in place) for them to do so, given the lower levels of cathode production - although they could still have exercised part of their option. Good luck - I know a few people who had a lot of money in this.
Fair play Gary. Some decent posting by you.
Yes would urge people to look back at my history - Since I am making a mint from my investment decisions! But remember you can’t win them all!
That last post was meant for Garyn.
I am heavily underwater on this but have accepted I may have to write it off. I welcome your balanced views on this - do you have any view on why Orion didn’t exercise their hedges, even when the LOM issue would have become apparent to them?
The thing that sets me aside from the trolls is that I’m fully invested in the stocks - cos I believe in my research! So I have a vested interest. For those of you not invested - what’s the interest - are you all shorting this, which would then make all sense!
Noted, just don’t get how people not invested, spent this amount of time and posts to keep repeating their message. Surely you’ve got better things to do like invest, also they are many other stocks on AIM that could do with your insight..! Guess each to their own GLA
I would also suggest that people have a read back over Latino's history - around 50 posts on this company in the last few days and no actual information whatsoever posted. Just loads of one liners about how high it will go that day, MMs wanting shares, shorters burning, etc etc. Not really sure what that adds to a discussion forum in terms of useful info...
Latino. It isn't in the T's and C's here that you have to be invested to voice an opinion. Get over yourself if I were you mate.
Latino, feel free to filter me, then you won't have to read my posts, but anyone else who wants to still can!
It was 24.6% back in March, so hasn't changed. I think the situation with Orion has escalated due to the fact that the mine may never generate enough profit to pay back the loan to get it into production. Plus the company has continued to be in a situation where it is unable to meet its repayments, plus the amount of ore being stripped has been dropping quickly. It also became apparent that most of the remaining ore that was economic even at current higher prices is from pit 5, which is where the reduced life of mine came into play - the last operational update doesn't suggest much of an extension being likely, as currently that would end around mid-2020, but could possibly be extended until the end of 2020. The currently known negatives should already be reflected in the share price though anyway given that the information has now been out there for a while. I think it largely comes down to how good people think that any deal is going to be for existing shareholders - given that it will have to favour Orion in order for them to accept it (they could otherwise just put Weatherly in default and call in the asset that the loan is secured against - as happened with various other companies such as Afren, Xcite etc when they were in somewhat similar situations, albeit in the oil sector and with the latter not being in production). Just my opinion though.
Apologies - was not for you but for our most decorated poster Garyn!
Laino I am invested Not sure why you thought I wasn't but perhaps you are right I will put all this in a balloon and let it go as will know soon enough No itent from me to upset you Good luck. Lastly I have tried to contact the company but no joy.