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Yawn
"English, Mandarin and Thai. All this after India." ... reminds me of a good plan for a series of nice meals out.
English, Mandarin and Thai. All this after India. Reminds me of the late, lamented Leonard Cohen.
Just seen this - http://www.businessinsider.com/hsbc-partners-with-fintech-tradeshift-on-financing-product-2017-3?r=UK&IR=T The space is clearly hotting up with the likes of HSBC partnering up now to get their slice of the e-invoice financing pie
Wow; a single big 4.3M share trade yesterday at a mid-point price - presuming an institutional deal
I was once told that a company gets the share holders it deserves... It seems Tungsten attracts traders rather than Investors. I do not expect a running commentary but think it would be reasonable to provide a quarterly update.
RNS worth a glance, just re indian mobile money contexts.
They have also previously announced the opportunities that Brazil and Mexico presented, but to my knowledge have not secured any significant revenue from these markets. Perhaps this is because they have not put their own people on the ground - hopefully lessons learned and they embrace this Indian opportunity more aggressively. Just having a capability does not guarantee success - this needs to be aggressively prosecuted.
It has taken 2 years almost to the day since Tungsten announced it Indian e-invoice capability for it to get off the ground - see announcement of 11 Mar 2015. At one must assume very considerable cost; for which previous management was castigated. The prize is the Mexican situtation where every invoice over $200 has to be submitted electronically. Mexican tax take for the VAT equivalent has doubled. Tempting prize indeed for Mr Modi; and for Tungsten as long as it actually puts people on the ground to do the business rather than hoping business will come to them Perhaps not so stupid an investment after all?
India Demonetization has changed the economy in big way. One Indian company Paytm has got maximum benefit. People can buy vegetable from street side vendor's using mobile payment. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-23/cash-ban-the-best-thing-to-happen-to-indian-digital-payments http://www.businessinsider.in/Thanks-to-demonetization-Paytm-is-making-Rs-120-crore-per-day-achieves-target-before-deadline-crosses-5-billion-GMV/articleshow/55541691.cms btw 120 crore = £15m (rate of GBPINR around 80) Now Modi is after in-direct taxes. From the tungsten article "The introduction of the Goods and Services Tax regulations (GST) in India, expected later in 2017, will help to provide a consistent set of tax rules and open up the possibilities of e-invoicing to businesses in the country." GST change is a massive change- about to happen around June 2017. You can imagine doing business in India now which consists of 29 states where each state has own tax rules for indirect taxes. Moving goods or providing services inter-state is a nightmare. Country wide GST will be a game changing reform for the Indian economy by creating a common Indian market. It's almost similar to free trade across 29 countries. Modi still got two more years to go. Can expect few more surprises :)
India expansion - one of the world's fastest growing economies. http://www.pymnts.com/news/b2b-payments/2017/tungsten-india-expansion-einvoice-invoice-compliance-legal-electronic-signature-tax-fraud-evasion/
Apology accepted. According to the bod, we can go to monthly ebitda any time they choose. Again. I can't prove that they said that. I can imagine the India you recall. Thing is, if someone had suggested back then, that 500 and 1,000 rupee notes would be withdrawn overnight, you would have told them they were crazy, but look what happened! All it takes is for Modi to rule that all invoices submitted to central and state governments must be electronic, by 2020 and TUNG will be in poll position. Modi wants his legacy to be the man who cleaned up India.
OK OK "false pretences" a bit strong granted and my apols. for sounding a tad acerbic but this company is not flavour of the month at present. Having said that no one can "pretend" that this company, admitted to AIM in October 2013, is going places.As far as I can ascertain, and I would value audit of my figures, in the years 2013-2016 inclusive it has posted statutory losses of £76.44 million (capitalisation upon admission £225 million) and for 2017 EBITDA is projected to be a loss of "less than £13 million". All in all not too impressive. As for the fanfare surrounding the spending of millions on the break into the Indian market this is only the beginning believe you me. In India everything takes four times as long as it does here and Tungsten have a long grind in front of them. Having worked in India I can tell you it is a hugely labour intensive society with massive unemployment so jobs, however small, are guarded jealously ( I was not even allowed to carry my own briefcase to the car after work!!). So, anything such as "streamlining" systems to make them more efficient which might put folk out of a job will run into very heavy resistance. (The company which took over mine, with no knowledge of the territory, were full of gung ho ideas as to how they were going to make massive changes come what may. They finished up selling out at a substantial loss.) As for the Government cracking down on the "black economy" I say "bon chance mon brave" I wish Tungsten good luck however-they are going to need it. I rest my case.
Well, I suppose it could all have been just a conspiracy. Maybe they spent the £1.5m budget on something else.
Well it came across as though you were blaming them but apologies if not. Having the ability to operate in India is clearly a good thing. Only time will tell whether the costs were worth it. So they have re-written the technology and deployed it? I've not seen any notices on this. Surely that's something they'd want to tell people, especially their customers. Personally I'd be very surprised if this is the case. Bit of vaporware me thinks.
I wasn't blaming previous management for anything, just saying that they spent the money on India, which looks to have been a great move. The current management is just benefitting from a change in the state of politics in India. I happen to be a great admirer of Mr Truell. He told me, in great detail what was wrong with the technology platforms and to be fair to Mr Proffitt, there is now rewritten, cloud-based platform that solves those problems. As for Mr Williams, he has a handle on the throttle. The company can go ebitda positive at a time of its choosing. Mr Hurwitz has stripped the whole business down and built it back up with end-to-end management responsibilities and clear goals for all involved. Other opinions obviously differ, but I think they are doing a very good job.
K2VMC, Oh I wouldn't be surprised if it is millions. I just hadn't seen anything so was curious if I'd missed any updates. Equally, I'm not necessarily criticising the management. However, I do see the validity and justification in what Warthog4 was saying given the lack of progress. Yes, the previous management weren't great, but blaming failings on them must be wearing thin. After all, Rick has been in place for 18 months and only 1 month after the press release Burnt posted earlier. Also, let's not forget, he worked for Tungsten in a key management role prior to that. Of the rest of the management team, Brian Proffitt has had 18 months but granted, Guy Miller, Connie O'Brien and Prabhat Vira have just the 12. However, David Williams came in during the Tungsten buy out and Patrick Clark, Ruud van Hilten and Alec Holmes are all OB10 lifers. So, I take the blame it on the previous team with a pinch of salt We're not on the inside so we don't know what is going on. Yes, we can praise this team, or we can say they've benefited from previous teams' idea and groundwork. Either way, this is undoubtedly a good opportunity for Tungsten and it's great they've got it over the line. Reality is, we all want are positive results and given we've not seen many of those it's understandable if others start questioning and want to look behind the curtain.
BPSF, ok, you got me there. I don't know that they spent millions getting into India. I was told that at the agm, by one of the bod, but I didn't see the receipts for air fares, hotel bookings, conference facilities, lawyers, or anything like that. Also, it wasn't the current management that spent that money. Plus, now they can operate there, it may turn out to be a decent investment after all. As for news, I have posted many times. We will get news that could have an effect on the share price. Either that or regulatory stuff. I'm sure Mr Hurwitz has already said that in an agm. In the past, the India news might have been in a RNS, or today's conference even. That will not happen now. "Don't tell me, show me". I think this is a well-run company with amazing prospects. I'm sure tradeshift is an excellent company too, but my opinion is that Tung is the gold standard. Have you seen the software working? I have. Very well designed - and I say that as a career-long software designer. Just my opinion. Doesn't count for any more on this bb, that anyone else's, so feel free to criticise the management if you feel that is important to you.
"they spent millions on breaking into the Indian market". How do you know? Plus, isn't that statement kind of at the heart of what Warthog4 was saying? It seems like they spend millions in a lot of areas, often with very little results. I think someone questioning the management team is justified. Those questions are then countered by positive moves/results and hopefully this turns is one of those, rather than the usual press release from the "digital command centre".......still makes me chuckle. But, before we bang the Hurwitz drum, we are still waiting for news about FX, Analytics and Finance.
Burnt, they spent millions on breaking into the Indian market but were thwarted by politics. Now the Indian Government is cracking down on the black economy, they want help to achieve that. Turkey will be next for us. That has been a goal for some time.
Wow; that must have been some hard yards as they started down this track a couple of years ago and announced partial compliance / approval at the beginning of June 2015 https://www.tungsten-network.com/press-releases/2015-tungsten-network-one-step-closer-to-pan-india-launch/?id=1186
Warthog4 ""What I do know is right now we appear to be going nowhere very slowly , we need to see some positive financials and EBITDA +ve announcements this year or this sucker is just never leaving the launch pad . With the patience and goodwill I have shown this prospect and the management a career as a monk surely awaits which is just as well because I will probably be in sackcloth and ashes thanks to Tungsten in any case !" Your comic timing is impeccable.
Great spot, Noise! Tungsten NetworkTungsten Network has become the first e-invoicing provider to offer compliant, paperless invoicing in India. The announcement comes in response to the demand from large buying organisations on the Tungsten Network who see opportunities in the fast-developing market. Effective today, Tungsten customers will now have the ability to send and receive legally-compliant electronic invoices for services and excise across India, as well as to create legal invoices for goods in the following eight states: Chandigarh, Delhi, Himachal Pradesh, Karnataka, Maharashtra, Punjab, Rajasthan and West Bengal. The expansion is a direct result of Tungsten’s tireless efforts to obtain clarification from the Indian government around whether digital signatures are legally permitted to prove the authenticity of invoices. Tungsten received this clarification directly from the Indian government, at both national and state levels, and was supported in its endeavours by partners Price**********Coopers and TrustWeaver. Rick Hurwitz, Tungsten Network CEO, said: “India is one of the fastest growing economies in the world and the move from a cumbersome paper-based approach to a frictionless digital model is great news for any business looking to trade with Indian vendors. Our expansion into the country was driven by customers who are looking to conduct more business in this increasingly important region. Now, they will have access to fast, efficient processing while simultaneously reducing the risk of fraud. “Tungsten’s entry into India also supports the government’s commitment to digitisation as it seeks to tackle corruption and mitigate its vast black economy. Several countries around the world have already embraced e-invoicing to fight fraud and tax evasion, and Tungsten is uniquely positioned to support Indian business and government in its digital development.” Huge news!