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bankrupty, below is AJB's corporate action message this morning. I understand this to mean that they can arrange the sale of delisted shares using a broker who does OTC but they will charge me for it, and should they have difficulty valuing them when I crystallise my SIPP they might charge for that too. You hold delisted in your AJB SIPP I understand so nothing unexpected or of particular concern I assume?
"Great Eastern Energy Corp has announced details of a proposed delisting from the London Stock Exchange (LSE). This means that the Global Depositary Receipts (GDRs) will stop trading on the stock exchange.
The company intends to cancel its admission to trading with effect from 21 April 2023. You may continue to buy and sell GDRs up until this date.
To view the announcement in full, please copy the link below and paste into your web browser:
https://www.londonstockexchange.com/news-article/GEEC/notice-of-intention-to-delist/15881354
ISA holders should note that following the delisting, the GDRs will no longer be ISA eligible. Any ISA-holders who have not sold or otherwise moved their GDRs by the delisting date must transfer the holding out of their ISA within 30 days of cancellation.
SIPP holders should note that unlisted shares are not SIPP eligible. Unlisted GDRs will be displayed within your portfolio at cost and will not be revalued except where this is required in relation to their holding within a registered pension scheme, i.e. at benefit crystallisation events, reviews and pension transfers (subject to change). In these circumstances, it may prove difficult to value the unlisted GDRs and, should this be the case, we reserve the right to commission a valuation and charge your SIPP for it.
There may be a limited market or no market at all in the ineligible GDRs following the cancellation, and sales may require the use of specialist market makers. We accept no liability for the illiquidity of the unlisted GDRs and reserve the right to pass on any charges we incur in their sale.
Please copy and paste the below FAQ link into your web browser for more information on corporate actions:
https://www.ajbell.co.uk/sites/ajbell.co.uk/files/AJB_Corporate_action_FAQs.pdf
IMPORTANT NOTE - If you have any questions or queries regarding this event, please send us a secure message and ensure you quote the following in the ?Subject? field: CORPORATE ACTION - Great Eastern Energy Corp - 9771813
Updated: 22/03/23"
My only minor concern with unlisted would be when I will be forced to crystalise at age 75yrs. A few of these will no doubt have gone bust and/or liquidated....but perhaps a few will have to be sold......I hope the sum total to be "chump change" and if it was a concern over extra selling charges at age 75yrs.......then something else "big" will have gone wrong with my balanced portfolio/ wealth....lol...and I'd be consumed with that problem instead....lol!
One of my concerns is valuation charges. The first crystallisation events in my 2 SIPPs are likely to occur next year when I may take tax free lump sums. I guess I'll just have to see what happens. I cannot see it costing more than a couple of hundred quid?
" it may prove difficult to value the unlisted GDRs and, should this be the case, we reserve the right to commission a valuation and charge your SIPP for it."
You don't need to disturb your GEEC holding within the SIPP....If you want to make a withdrawal from your SIPP you can simply take e.g. £10k out of your cash fund (created by selling whatever shares you have in your SIPP)---surely you don't only hold GEEC? (I have about 30 holdings in my portfolio at pres. and a cash fund)....so with the e.g. £10k withdrawal you get £2,500 tax free and your tax code applied against the £7,500 to give you between £5k and £6.5k net on top of your £2.5k (TFC)! So you've taken £10k out but can leave the rest in your SIPP (inc. your GEEC shares).....am I comprehending your dilema/query/concern.....or 'ave I missed someit?
When I take my TFLS, let's say the full 25%, that's a crystalising event. The fund needs to be valued to determine what 25% is and how much I can take. If the desisted value is >0 then it needs to be included so it must be valued. If LTA is still around (Labour say they will bring it back) then when the TFLS is taken the whole fund, including the delisted part is measured against LTA, the first test I think it's called. Second test against LTA is at 75.
Ah... I missed that......LTAs.....I've purposely kept below the LTA.(avoid hassle) so I've got a bit more flex!
AJB says on SIPP Withdrawals:-
" Lump sums are also known as uncrystallised funds pension lump sums or UFPLS.
Am I eligible to take a lump sum/UFPLS from my pension?
You can take an UFPLS from any part of your pension fund that you have not already put into drawdown unless you have no remaining lifetime allowance or hold certain forms of protection. "
That's what I was talking about and what I do...from time to time......to be fair I really only do it as an exercise to check it works and then plow back the £2,880 net to get the £3,600 gross re-investment.
I have paid enough income tax in my life and avoid that today! GLA
I think the point is, regardless of whether you're approaching LTA or not, you need to get a valuation of your fund at any crystalising event. If your platform is incapable of doing so because it's too complicated they will employ another company to do it, and pass on the cost....
I agree with what you say Bismark..........the point I was making I think (in retrospect) is that I'm trying to remain taking uncrystallised funds pension lump sums or UFPLS and not meeting a crystalising event until age 75yrs.
I hope I've read this right........happy to be, indeed need to be corrected if I'm got this wrong!
My understanding is that for every £25 (uncrystallised) TFLS you take, £75 of the remaining fund is crystallised. I would have thought that's a crystallising event, but maybe if the value of listed shares and cash exceeds the value of TFLS plus the part you're crystallising then they don't need to bother to value the delisted stuff. I don't know to be honest. Have you already taken any TFLS while there are delisted shares in your SIPP and if so how was it dealt with?
Withdrawals by Lump sums are also known as "uncrystallised funds pension lump sums" ( UFPLS). "uncrystalised" is the key word here!
I think AJB has a good explanation and the positives and negatives of each option. It is probably best to read up on those explanations which are given in your SIPP a/c.....I think you "Access my Pension" within your portal to get to this page which summarises and then gives you the option to access fuller information on a link for each of the following sections:-
Your options
Tax-free lump sum and drawdown
Receive a tax-free lump sum (usually 25%) from all or some of your SIPP. You also have the choice of taking taxable income either in one-off or regular payments. Read more on drawdown
Withdraw all
Take your entire pension as a lump sum (usually 25% is tax-free, and the rest taxed as income) and close your SIPP. Read more on withdrawing your pension
Pension lump sum (UFPLS)
Take a lump sum from your pension, with 25% tax-free and 75% taxed as income. The rest of your pension remains invested in your SIPP. Read more on pension lump sums
Annuity
Receive a tax-free lump sum, and buy a guaranteed lifetime income (annuity) from an insurance company with the rest of your money. Read more on annuities
I guess I/we could approach a licensed financial adviser if we were willing to pay for advice!