The next focusIR Investor Webinar takes places on 14th May with guest speakers from WS Blue Whale Growth Fund, Taseko Mines, Kavango Resources and CQS Natural Resources fund. Please register here.
London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
It is if you are trying to make a negative point!
expatbrat - "there are dozens of waste to energy plants in the UK which get no further than planning permission and this is with proven technology"
It looks like you're including all of those that have been granted permission in the past 18 months. So it's not really a very useful comparison, is it?
XPB: One hesitates to ask why you single out VLS as the only one of the eight named that is, in your eyes, doomed to failure? Alternatively, do you think others will succumb to your projected funding crisis?
Would it not be in the government interest to provide some guarantees to the projects. I'm sure if the government is pushing for things to move forward then it's not hard for them to put a guarantee in place for large scale 'green projects'. I personally cannot imagine them standing buy while everything they have been doing and pushing for Goes down to drain because no banks will fund projects of that size
Thurg. You’ve obviously never been exposed to the challenges of project financing. It’s irrelevant which Council you’re on on who you’re snuggling up to. That will only get you so far - in this case, it’s worked to enable VLS to secure free money from the Government.
However, when it comes to the crunch, the banker who is writing the big cheques for building the thing, will asses the risks in far more detail. This is where VLS will hit a wall whereas the aforementioned, with their commercial plant operating in other geographies, will get the construction capital.
As another example, there are dozens of waste to energy plants in the UK which get no further than planning permission and this is with proven technology. The banks asses the risk of the company and its experience, not just the tech.
Very much like arguing McDonald's sell burgers so there's no point opening up a burger shop anymore. It's a huge market and if anyone thinks it's will be exclusive to one or 2 companies is bonkers. Its a long wait til the end and for sure lots will be playing the same game but to assume anyone with a project for saf will be knocking velocys out of the market is a bit nieve in my opinion. I don't like my share price going down as much as the next person but I didn't buy in thinking they will be up and running in time for Christmas
XPB: Twisting the argument to support your negative bent as usual. This is a UK based issue. Of the companies shortlisted, only Velocys and Lanzatech are providing members of Jet Zero, and from the information available, it would seem that the Altalto project is the most advanced, with FEED currently in progress. In truth, nobody is producing SAF anywhere on a scale that will meet predicted demands and everyone agrees that there is plenty of scope for anyone who can produce the goods. This is a project in its infancy which will come to fruition - don't be so fast to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
In the UK alone approx 3 billion gallons of Jet Fuel is consumed each normal, non-Covid, year. Even if all the proposed sites came to fruition it would produce approx only 5% of this demand. which shows the scale of the problem. In the short term and used as a drop in fuel, it will reduce carbon but production would have to be seriously ramped up to meet the total demand by 2050. Obviously by 2050, some short haul and light aircraft will run on other means ie battery and hydrogen however as the demand for air travel increases year on year, the overall equation will, I suggest, remain the same.
£15 million is a drop in the ocean compared to the funding required in all cases and HMG will want to encourage all parties to succeed hence my feeling is that the majority of the companies will receive a portion of the funding. With a degree of public finance backing, private investors might be more encouraged to invest in the various projects. There are some candidates, as XPB mentioned, who are already able to finance and would not require any outside investment but I still believe HMG will give them something by way of encouragement.
As for Velocys, a Company I had supoorted for 18 months until I became utterly sick of the lack of news, particularly since the fund raise last year, I really do hope they suceed. I'm not currently invested, I pulled out the majority of my shares on New years eve....the lack of clarity over the RRB situation was the trigger and when Shell pulled out, I did too. My honest belief is that the Comapany will secure its funding. maybe even from Mr Abramaovich who has been heavily invested from ths start or the Company with it's patented technologies will be bought by one of the larger players.
At the moment there is nothing to suggest that Velocys is a share to hold but to be fair, if HMG backs them in September, it could spark a raise in SP which would be further enhanced with positive newsflow which has been sadly lacking in the past year.
Thoughts?
Thurg.
Lanzatech, Fulcrum, Lanzajet, Nova all have commercial plants elsewhere. Alfanar is a billion dollar Saudi company.
Velocys has a CAD drawing.
I think the road you’re referring to is a dead end.
XPB: From the link given, the VLS position appears to be a lot further "down the road" than most of the opposition, having, as it does, a viable site, planning approval, local government support, and strong links with HMG via Jet Zero. Therefore, whilst I will accept that "ellusive" investor might be appropriate, I feel that your "illusive" investor is somewhat derogatory.
Here's hoping .......
There is some stiff competition in that list. I see BA are mentioned repeatedly. This will make things very hard for VLS to ‘on board’ their illusive investor going forward. Not the only game in town anymore and arguably, the least sexy of all of them.
Immingham, one of eight projects selected
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/green-fuels-green-skies-gfgs-competition/green-fuels-green-skies-gfgs-competition-shortlisted-proposals
Given it’s summer recess as of today, expect more Gov announcements. My expectation is an announcement on mandates and also the GSGF competition outcome.