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Sounds like I will not have to talk to my self on two chat rooms. Pin and pinr. Good for the company, good for shareholders in pin or pinr. Many like i are in both with expectation this would happen. Picking up the pinr at larger discount. The overall discount in pin is likely to narrow significantly. For those who look for the short term there's a clear opportunity but the big gainers in this company are those who buy and hold.
After the AGM, and following some discussions with other PIs, some very knowledgable; I believe the company needs to do something with PINR. In theory the PINR are redeemable at NAV, but doing that would not really be in the interest of the voting shares, certainly so long as they sit at a discount. But there are probably a couple of things the company could do. 1. make an share swap offer 98 PIN shares for 100 PINR. This would dilute the voting power of PIN holders, but the conversion would enhance the nav of the PIN, so I suspect the PIN share holders would be happy. The PINR shareholders would see a their share price increase, as the discount is less on the PIN than the PINR. They would lose 2% of their NAV, but a bird in the hand..., and also the PIN are more tradable with a smaller spread. The valuation of PIN is based on the PIN shares valuation. The conversion of PINR to PIN would therefore increase the valuation of the company and it could then move into the FTSE250. In the FTSE250 and with a simpler share structure the discount would likely narrow. 2. The PINR are tightly held but there is a risk that conversion may result in the sale of shares that would have negative impact on discount. The market is very keen to value income highly at the present time. I suspect that the market maybe very receptive to the marketing of a Guaranteed Income share, or a Bond. Maybe 15% of total NAV. 5% 5year, 5% 10year, 5% 15 year. This would reduce risk at redemption. This would add a degree of gearing, but I don't believe that investors in a company like PIN would be totally averse to this modicum of extra risk/return. The moneys raised would be used to buy any PIN shares, either from the market or as part of a tendering associated this the conversion of PIN to PINR. Maybe at 5% of NAV. Any tendered would therefore increase NAV. If Guaranteed Income shares where offered I would suggest offering warrants at the same time. This would give opportunities for capital growth of the GIS holders as well as income, and I believe could help catch the imagination of potential PI as they read the financial pages of their Sunday Papers. Advertising on the cheap. New Years resolution to see if I can get these ideas as resolutions at the next AGM.
looking at my last post I should probably mention the AGM with reference to PINR. The company has bought up some of the pinr shares but there was no hint of anything more than the same, pinr to continue with some buy backs. I hold pinr as they are at a discount to pin and represent the same nav in a company that has and continues to do well in a sector that I want to invest in, and part of the world that I want exposure ie outside the UK). I still consider that holding the pinr rather than the pin represent a sensible choice when they are at a significant discount to the pin providing you have a long time horizon. The wide spread only reinforces this. But as my time horizon in 5-10years minimum, then this isn't an issue for me.
NAV on morning star is 2009.5, share price 1492.5 on a wide spread 1460-1525p still at a discount of 25% and a discount to PIN. the spread is obviously a disincentive for all but the long term share holder, but with still a wide discount for a company with such pedigree this is still going to be a the majority of my portfolio. Will see if the AGM next week (with a few new faces) points to any changes in direction.
rns nav 31/7 1888, up again driven by currency changes post Brexit. morning star nav today 1908 pin spread on pin 1451-1443 pinr spread on pinr 1200-1230
The discount is getting wider because the NAV is going up and the share price isn't. Bet that doesn't help either. Though they are still called redeemable shares there hasn't been any redemptions for a number of years, though they where in the past. The company has been buying shares back, but the market does this and areas or companies just fall out of favour. I blame the journalists. But that's just me. I like the company, I like the discount, I buy the shares. And mainly the redeemable. The discount isn't as wide as 2009 or 20011. Hopeful they will narrow, but if discounts widen I will buy more.
Why is the redeemable share discount getting wider? "Redeemable shares are shares which can be �redeemed� (in other words, the ownership of the shares can be retrieved from the shareholder at the option of either the company or the shareholder on pre-determined terms and conditions and payment of a specified sum). A company may wish to issue redeemable shares so that it has an alternative way to return surplus capital to shareholders without having to carry out a buyback of its shares. One of the key reasons why a company may prefer to carry out a redemption rather than a buyback is that, in contrast to a buyback, stamp duty is not payable on redemption." That didn't help :-)
Note 1200p is the Buy, 1050p to sell
Reply to myself. NAV 1730p, SP1200 even a better buy than 6mths ago. Admittedly SP is down but NAV is what really matters in the long run and that's up 5%. Hopefully a property sale this week will give me some spare cash to increase my holding.
est nav on morningstar 1,644, price 1,232.5, just bought some more at 1,240. Nice discount, 25% and holding over £152 million in cash means than the discount on shares is probably 33%, or £3 in shares for every £2 at risk.
a note to my self. pinr 1237.5 today, and nav to 1629p
Well a year on and the discount has narrowed, with share price on the redeemable up from 1070p to 1285p Still at a slight discount to pin. I dont really see why they dont convert the pinr to pin. underlying nav has increased 1385 to 1534 over the year, so still a reasonable discount, and PIN continues to do a good job of finding good investments.
The discount is still wider than it should be for such a great investment company, but the discount between PINR and PIN has narrowed to nil, though the spread on PINR is still wide. Surely the obvious thing with no difference in the discount is to convert PINR to PIN. The market capitation would be seen as being bigger, and the shares more tradeable.
have usually held PIN, but the discount is so wide I am sure something will have to happen in November AGM to address it, but especially for the PINR. 25% discount, and that is when it has £80+million in cash. The stock it holds is essentially £3 of stock for £2. No brainer, I will continue to hold, and hold.
23/03/09
one of my better investments...in @250
sensitive to downturn if 2007-9 any guide ...no advice intended
bought at 150 4 yrs ago...sweet
catch pin.. ..both av made me richer ta
Roger good buddy......................