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Just calculate that at the current Dividend gives you approximately 15p a year. Multiply this by the amount of shares you own. Does it matter a % either way. RDSB roughly gives you 50p per share. Once you work out the total amount received and divide it by the current amount. We are all in here for growth presumably. We all have a sell target. Just enjoy the dividends. Remeber you only get 0.1% in a savings account in a year. At the current share price, the dividend is 4.73%.
I have had a few over the years. Had a paper loss with IQE but regained it with QUIZ. Sold and bought Thomas Cook. Lost 70% overnight. Sold at a heavy loss and then made the mistake of trying to chase my loss. Bought into BUR after they dropped and then my worst mistake of buying NMC again after the shares dropped. Ended up losing over 55K after all my shares were suspended. I was lucky in buying BP and RDSB and my gains have cancelled out my loss. So I am now holding, doing nothing but reinvesting the dividends. Hoping that over the next 24 months to make a good gain and will sell. I have made mistakes but been given a second chance here to claw back my losses. My BP and RDSB average are approx. 228 and 977.
Bananaman - I agree with you on the Dividend return. You just need to look at both BATS and IMB growth. It is tempting to buy into the high DIv, yield but with no growth. Just look at the share price for both over the last 18 months. I bought Bank shares and oil shares last August and I sold the bank shares and bought into BP and RDSB when they were at their low in Oct. I average 223.60 on my BP and 996 on my RDSB. I have kept a watchlist for those shares I bought to compare to what I bought in the OIL sector. When I look at both lists the OIL shares are sitting at the bottom of the gains. NWG, BARC and LLOY have have gained between 69% and 87% over the same time as BP gained 8% and RDSB gain of 12% so from looking at how the recovery has taken place since last August, OIL still has a lot of cathcing up to do but I am not going to sell. I don't need the money at the moment so I am willing to wait. Hopefully in the next 12 - 18 months, I hope to get better gains to catch up with the banking stocks I sold.
I agree with your views. Having had my fingers burnt in the past where I lost heavily owning shares in Thomas Cook - share price dropped 70% overnight after a RNS was issued just before the stock market opened with bad news to having my shares suspended in NMC Health, again the suspension was done after hours on the stock market so I could not do anything. With BP, I am just going to hold. I managed to buy at an average of 223 and if the share price heads into the 400's, I will make a good profit to wipe out my previous losses. This is my aim. I will re-invest the DIV and just wait. At least with BP, you get a trading update every 3 months. I have previously held shares in companies where the trading update is twice yearly so for months there is no news so the share price just stgnates for long periods without any news. I think that if you compare owning shares to having the money in a bank account - you get 0.1% interest in a year.
I was lucky in that I got access to my pension lump sum at a time when the markets had dipped. I initially bought into the UK banks and Big Oil as the sectors both had slumped with the pandemic. I took a note of the prices that I bought the bank shares. Comparing that list with big oil today, the financial sector has recovered quicker but I am of the opinion that we still have to wait the world opens up to people using airlines and other forms of transport. I am looking forward to seeing Q1 results to see ifthe demand has improverd. We can all agree that the POO has improved but has the demand on a global term. I was lucky in the fact that I had a lot of spare time in Oct where I bought Big Oil at low prices. Currently I would have been financially better off holding the bank shares as they have recovered quicker but this is a different sector we are talking about. I think I did catch some at the bottom with some of my BP purchases being 191 and 191 and RDSB was 863 and 867. Having bailed out too quick previously I am just going to sit back and wait. Good luck to all holders and keep the faith in the sector and read all the info on the BB and elsewhere.
I agree with others. Hold onto the shares and take the dividends. I bought BP at the beginning of last August for an average of 284.50. I bought a lot on October for an average of 200. I have held onto the shares during that period. Only thingI have done is to transfer funds between my share account and my ISA and SIPP accounts. So if you were to look at the price last August compared to today, I have held the shares for nearly 9 months and the SP has incresed from 284.5 to 302, approx. 6%. I am not complaining as I managed to get alot during October when the price was below 200. I am going to hold until the shares reach 500 and then I will sell and enjoy the profits for my retirement. I am willing to wait until 2022. I don't need the money at the moment. Better than getting 0.1% interest in a savings account in a bank. That is the way I think.My BP average is 227.8 and my RDSB average is 977.8 so just going to hold, re-invest the dividends each quarter and wait until 2022 or whenever the shares give a better return. I had to wait 30 years to get the funds from my pension so another couple of years won't matter.
Sold both RDSB and BP with it being the end of the tax year. When new tax year starts next week, I am going to transfer the funds from our share account and buy back both RDSB and BP in our ISA accounts. Hoping for a quiet day on the SP tomorrow before the Easter break. I am hopeful that when the LSE opens back on Tuesday, the funds will be cleared in my account to rebuy. A lower price from today would help as I know I need to pay stamp duty and buying costs so hopefully I shall not lose too many shares on the transaction from the sell/buy process. Still going to hold long term.
The other benefit just now I found was that if the prices stay the same into the new tax year, my gain will be less so no CGT to pay. I am quite happy for the price to remain as it is as mentioned you get more shares when the Div is paid on Friday. RDSB pay their Div on Monday so all good for the longs and this will no doubt annoy the doom merchants who are short
Fairy1, I plan to do the same, sell shares in my share account and then transfer over to my ISA. The thing to bear in mind is that it takes 2 days for the funds to clear in your share account. ( This is normal practice for the London Stock Exchange). So if you sell your shares on a Monday, you don't get access to the money to the Wednesday. After taking advice I did this recently for this tax year. ( I should have did it months ago but did not..school boy error on my part). I am with Hargreaves Lansdown and I had to wait 3 days in total, 2 days for the money to become available after selling the shares and another day for the money to become available to trade in the ISA. I phoned the help desk at HL and was told that if I had phoned them, it would have been done over the phone and I would not have had to wait the extra day. It will cost you buy and sell costs and also 0.5% stamp duty. It is very difficult to predict what the share values will be on the day you sell but if you look at the share price on the day you plan to sell and if there is an increase of 1% from the opening price, then you could sell as you have gained on the day. The big decision we will all have to make is when the money gets transferred over into the ISA from the share account do you purchase the shares immediately or do you sit and watch the price for a reduction. In an ideal world, you sell after a 1% gain on the price and you buy when the shares have reduced in price by about 1% to cancel out the costs and then you should have roughly the same amount of shares that you sold. (For me it will cost me £12 to sell and £12 to buy and then you take off the 0.5% for stamp duty so you are effectively having 99.5% of your £20000 limit minus the buy sell costs).
Apologies in relation to the Aug and Sept information as this included other holdings I had. I did sell a lot of other shares during October to buy oil shares but the figures I have given are for my holding, which is a long term holding. I was all in to both oil at the end of Oct, start of Nov onwards. Apologies for this error.
I am a Long Term Holder in both BP and RDSB since the beginning of August last year. I don’t trade but do take note of the daily fluctuations in relation to the value of my holding. I hold approximately 50% of my holding in each of the Oil companies.
Here is a summary of the gain / loss for each month for combined RDSB and BP since then.
Aug 20, +0.34% ( only kept the information from 06/08), Sept 20, -9.25%, Oct 20, +1.54%, Nov 20 +31.67%, Dec 20, -2.60%, Jan 21, +3.26%, Feb 21,+ 8.24%, Mar, ( to 16/03), +4.55%.
I appreciate that there are graphs to view but this confirms that if you are a LTH, your funds will grow if you buy and hold. The worst trading day was 30th Nov but this could be because of profit taking as Nov showed an overall gain of over 31%.
The best daily result gains were on 9th Nov , + 11.99%, 16th Nov, +5.73% and 24th Nov, +6.65% , possibly on the news of the vaccine approvals. I will continue to hold, re-invest the dividends and wait on the recovery.
I can see that the last couple of trading days have seen a loss of 2.21% and 1.73% but I am just going to ignore this but will look on this board for any explanations.
Thanks for this informative post, which I was not aware of. I shall have a look at what you have explained and I am sure other investors will also appreciate your advice, which is a benefit to why logging onto this board also provides great investment advice. Thank you.
Fairy1, I think that will be the case. For your purposes, just focus on this tax year. This iswhere the excel spreadsheet is useful. You could copy over 200 buy / sell transactions onto excel and then you just hightlght the columns and you can then have a list of buys against a list of sells. Just total them up. I did this a few months ago for every single trade I have carried out since 2011 as I wanted to know how much I have lost. I knew that I have lost more than I had gained and I just wanted to see it in front of me. I will never be a millionaire at this. I am hoping that my current gains in BP and RDSB will wipe out my losses experienced over the years. ( I am still well under after my NMC Health shares were suspended and I had lost everything in relation to them...another story.)
Fairy1, you should purchase Microsoft Office for your computer and use Microsoft Excel spreadsheets to help you.
Excel gives you the option to use columns for adding information.
I use Hargreaves Lansdown as a broker. What I did was to copy over from my Hargreaves Lansdown Account every transaction I made in relation to all my holdings onto the spread sheet, you can then use functions on excel to arrange the transactions into buys and sells, dates etc and there is a function key to add all the numbers in the columns to save you doing it.
In August this year, I purchased shares in banks and also BP and RDSB when I received my lump sum pension. At that time, the share prices in both BP and RDSB had not bottomed out. During September last year there was a lot of negativity surrounding the banking stocks and my bank stock value reduced. During the month of October last year I sold my entire holding of banking shares and IMB shares in various amounts and bought various amounts of RDSB and BP shares.
I recently sold the BP and RDSB shares in my share account and transferred the money over to my SIPP and re bought the RDSB and BP shares.
Yesteday afternoon, I spent a few hours and I went into Hargreaves Lansdown account and copied over the trading information.
By arranging the information on the spreadsheet, I was able to list every purchased transaction and every sold transaction for each company. By using the columns you can actually add up each transaction so you get the average price of the shares you bought and the average price of the share you sold.
I was able to calculate that I had made a loss on the bank shares, I knew this at the time, but at the same time the BP and RDSB shares had also reduced by a larger amount compared to when I first bought them.
What I then was able to do was pair up every sale of the shares I sold against the shares I bought of RDSB and BP.
By using the spreadsheet, I was able to see quite clearly that prior to me purchasing the oil shares in October, I had made a trading loss.
I took a note of the sold shares I sold and I paired them against the earliest dated shares bought. To explain this more clearly, for example, I sold 12000 shares in BP at 350.00. I then looked back my account and I then looked at the amount of transactions it took me to purchase 12000 shares and then I took the average cost of those shares. I bought them at different prices so I required to find out my average. For example, my average cost was 300.00 so I made a profit of 12000 x 0.50 = £6000.00
I then added my lost to the CGT for our joint account, my account is held by my wife and I, and I discovered that although I made a gain in both BP and RDSB, it was within the CGT Allowance.
The next tax year, I am again going to transfer funds from my share account to both our ISAs and my SIPP and I know that I will require to pay CGT tax as the shares were the shares I bought in October and I know that I have made gains on both of them.
I recently transferred funds from my joint share account to into my SIPP to take advantage of the unused allowance. The funds were proceeds from BP and RDSB shares I purchased. I then used the funds to buy the shares back within my SIPP account. I ended up with a few more BP shares than I sold and a few shares less with RDSB that I bought due to the market prices and having to wait 2 days for the funds to be cleared and a further day for the funds to be able to be transferred over from my share account to my SIPP Account.
I did make a paper profit on the shares in monetary gain but in relation to the number of shares sold and re-purchased, as mentioned it was a like for like., give or take a few shares.
I looked on the HMRC website in relation to paying tax on the capital gain on the shares.
I have copied over word for word taken from the HMRC website:
"Tax when you sell shares
What you pay it on:
You may have to pay Capital Gains Tax if you make a profit (‘gain’) when you sell (or ‘dispose of’) shares or other investments.
Shares and investments you may need to pay tax on include:
shares that are not in an ISA or PEP
units in a unit trust
certain bonds (not including Premium Bonds and Qualifying Corporate Bonds)
You’ll need to work out your gain to find out whether you need to pay tax. This will depend on if your total gains are above your Capital Gains Tax allowance for the tax year.
When you do not pay it
You do not usually need to pay tax if you give shares as a gift to your husband, wife, civil partner or a charity.
You also do not pay Capital Gains Tax when you dispose of:
shares you’ve put into an ISA or PEP
shares in employer Share Incentive Plans (SIPs)
UK government gilts (including Premium Bonds)
Qualifying Corporate Bonds
employee shareholder shares - depending on when you got them"
As I was only transferring over the shares to hold for future from what I have read is that I do not require to pay the Capital Gains Tax.
Sorry to sound completely daft here - HMRC states that if you dispose shares into an ISA of SIPP, you don't pay tax.
***** Have I read this properly ?? ****
Could this be confirmed by any experienced investor / posters on this board?
I was going to complete a tax return ans explain on it what I have carried out but it appears not to be the case.
Apologies for being off topic here but I just need confirmation. Thanks to any one who responds.
I have never traded before. Today I sold BP and RDSB from my Share account to Bed and Breakfast over to my SIPP account as I am taking advantage of the roll over tax allowance for the previous tax years. I sold a quantity of BP shares at 322 this morning. I was awaiting the 2 day period for the shares to clear before transferring the funds over to my SIPP.
This afternoon I noticed that the share price dropped to 312, (discovered on this site that the drop was caused by sellers in the US selling to buy Tech. stock). I could not resist re-buying the shares at 312 and I then held them for a couple of hours and then sold them on at 315.64. I ended up gaining more shares. I know that I require to pay costs and stamp duty to move the funds over from my Share Account to my SIPP Account so this has given me a some added dry powder to re-purchase in my SIPP account.
Hoping that the share price dips for a few days to allow me to rebuy to cover the buying costs. I am a LTH and just moving funds to take advantage of the allowances. ( I had the time to sit in front of my computer ths afternoon for a couple of hours.) Can see where trading can make you money but I landed lucky with the day's events.
Hoping by nect year to sell a small amount to fund my retirement.
Thanks Matty - I am still a bit unclear, which I hope you can help me with. I want to sell BP shares that currently sit at an average of 226.24 that I previously purchased. The shares are currently sitting at a value of 318.10 so for each share I hold I am in profit. Once the transfer is over, I should hold approximately the same number of shares in the SIPP that I sold from the Share account at approximatley the same profit, minus the transfer costs. As I am holding onto the shares albeit in a different account, do I have to declare this as I ws of the opinion that you only have to declare CGT when you remove the money from your dealing accounts into a bank account to use. I am intending moving the shares over so only making a paper profit in my share dealing account. Would the CGT allowance not help me here. It is my intention to move over other funds in the new tax year to my ISA and my wife's ISA. I am a bit heavy in my share account. It is my long term aim to remove funds on a yearly basis from my share dealing account within the CGT allowance to give myself a yearly income for my pension over the course of my retirement. Thanks in advance.
I have shares in ISA, SIPP and Share account. I should have carried out this process when I recieved my lump sum in August but didn't. I was reading up on the Allowance that can be carried forward in relation to pension allowances. For those investors not aware, you can carry forward your annual pension allowance. There is a load of information in relation to this on the Hargreaves Lansdown website. I have worked out that I can carry over funds from my share account into my SIPP. Frustrating thing is that I will haveto incurr the selling fees and stamp duty. I was going to arrange this next week so that I can acarry forward unused allowances from the current tax year and previous tax years.
I cannot find anything about the 30 day rulefor buying and selling the same share. I am going to sell my BP and RDSB shares, transfer over the money and re-buy them. Hopefully I can sell at a higher rate than I am buying and this will cover the costs.
Does the 30 day rule count for transferring between a share account to a SIPP account. I am aware that it does not count when transferring into an ISa and was just wanting to confirm the same for transferring between the SIPP and share account as I have made a profit on my original investment.