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I think most regret investing in CNEL after what has happened, not just from the perspective of the share price, but also that we have money tied up with a board who, as you say takes part in culturally dubious activities. The jump to .16 was out of the blue and we still to this day have no idea why. Shares normally need to explain why the shares double in a day but not in Hong Kong. We are valued less than £9m so for me that seems low and i hope better times are ahead as we were led to believe that from start of year things have started to improve and company has plenty of patents and some decent R&D projects. i think i will hold as i cant believe the next results will not show some positive momentum and there is talk that there is a big project with Sunbird that might come to fruition. however the suffering of no news every 6 month and then reading a report that has almost no news in is depressing.
Above all strctly IMO of course. Scenicview.
Same situation. Bought in early based on the technology, the business opportunity and the hype on AIM. Lived through all the shenanigans with move to HK, locked out for many months, owners found to be fraudulent and more. Somewhere in the company background there is a person with an english name and there is a secretary with a chinese name. From time to time we get scraps of info from them. For the rest its pretty much full opaquicity. No notion of running a publicly quoted company whatsoever. With the background of China slowdown and un-verifiable business case, layered with suspicions of culturally driven business practises I'm finally getting out. And that is proving to be a challenge also.
Hi, I'm following this thread for a while, some years ago I bought CNEL shares (30,000); at the moment it looked like a good investment (no idea what I was thinking back then); must have been the companies range of business and growth I saw in it, or some tip I read somewhere. Anyhow, since then it all went weird, the stock changed from London to HongKong, stock was 'frozen' and when it went back on it seems it kind of lost all of its value. In my case I even am not able anymore to trade the share, as it is stuck in some kind of Limbo with my online stock broker, making me I am in in the long term anyway since I can trade the stock again. Last months I saw the stock rise from 0,8 HKD to 0,16 HKD. I wonder how you see the future for this stock, could this prove to be a good (lol) investment in +10 years, or are chanches bigger the company will go broke?
Https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2023/0829/2023082901535.pdf
generally speaking the results do not really tell us much about future prospects only that the 6 months up to 31st June were lacklustre but they signed 16 contracts. They are still owed quite a lot of money so they need to be working hard to collect that but we have net assets of £18m or so and that is double market cap today. obviously without sharing news on value of any future contracts signed and any indication of future revenue it is hard to know whether they have turned the corner. When they release the final results PDF to investors this sometimes has more information but is a shame they are not divulging anything for investors to have more confidence in the business going forward, although i sense things are improving but key really is that company has reasonable cash and assets and working capital and really they need to secure some decent contracts and promote heavily their test projects to build their investor footprint. Sadly we know the score and they appear unable to do that but at least there is no delay to the accounts and hope that we get some uplift as locals find out new contracts that we do not. i am still unsure why we doubled earlier in the year so if we get another day like that sometime over the next few months that would help put me back to breakeven.
I think the market has taken the profit warning almost positively as today volume was mostly buys but the current market cap is so low that really any positive news they might want to share would have a bug upward impact. Certainly CNEL need to give a forward guidance as obviously things need to turn around but we accumulated high levels of profits in the past and as long we we continue to get payment for past work we should keep the cashflow looking positive. Just disappointing this is probably going back in the bottom draw for another 6 months and hope in the meantime the board can focus on communicating with shareholders and customers.
What is so frustrating is the lack of update on anything. How on earth they plan to grow operating as a hermit company is hard to fathom. Looks a £1.6m loss so not terrible but not good given i think Richard B said business was good since New Year. Key is in detail and whether the bod are playing with a straight bat as they are not trustworthy but hopefully NEDs are keeping a close eye but they have good tech but sadly not sharing or capitalising on that. I think market cap is so low that this will not have any impact but could be another 6 months before we learn anything.
Looks like Fat Heron's stuck in the trough again and Mei Ling's undercharging her clients.
All eyes will be on interims due 29th August as last 6 months really nothing had been shared but anecdotal that business was busy and so forth. Really quite bad given plenty must be going on that could and should be shared. Shareprice has jumped a little today so it might bode well in leadup to results next week as i am sure locals know a lot more than anyone else. Lets hope contracts and progress achieved and market cap today is bonkers at £9m or so if cnel have steadied the ship and made a profit we should see a decent re-rate.
Does anyone have any news on this lot at the moment? as its very quiet in here
While very little news has been released i am still unsure of the news that led to the doubling in the share price a month back. There has been no news i am aware of. surely when a share price doubles the company should be available to provide some news as it did not happen by mistake. The key at the moment is that the trend is positive and we are about to hit the recent high of .189. Would like to see us back to .45. We just need some have decent news as we stand at sub £10m valuation and that is still very low and to my knowledge CNEL were booming from the end of 2022 so 2023 should be a good year and back to profitability.
I have always been suspicious of the business model of CNEL as they differ considerably to business in the UK and elsewhere that when a company signs a contract they pay in advance for materials and fabrication and therefore protect the company should the client subsequently not pay their bills or cancel the contract. This is standard business practice but it appears CNEL effectively gets paid for materials in arrears meaning that we can only support deals relative to the amount of cash we have. if you read the 2022 results we had about 50m RMB / £5.5m of impairment losses that roughly translates to products shipped to clients that were subsequently not needed or shipped back and then independently valued at fair value and written off. That is crazy how CNEL operate as it opens us to massive financial risk. clearly any kit sent back from the client has almost no value as it will be bespoke. It maddens we have big impairment of £5m when the company is not willing to even buy back $500k of shares, worth less than 10% of their incompetent management? However it has also got me sadly thinking, based on slippery deals the bod got up to, that if you were up to no good a great strategy to get money out via the side door is a cosy deal with an end user to agree simply credit certain invoices and call them "impairment" and have a nice split of proceeds on the side? i hope not but sadly the board were caught red handed, albeit they fudged a way out, but someone explain how they can have £5m impairment charge in one year? Our retained profits have been hit hard and i worry the board are up to their tricks using a different strategy away from the auditors arms.
Ivy responded regarding the share buy back they agreed in December. it appears that even though the board were fully aware of the business profit in December when they voted for a share buy back it now appears they are rowing back on this as Ivy said they are not planning to do it now. What has changed or did they ever plan to do it? You might question where has the last 7 years of accumulated profits gone and why cant they find even $500k to but back up to 10% of the company at a 60% discount to NAV? Surely it is no brainer unless the company has done something else with our profits? I am starting to think the auditors need to check on profits and find out the whererabouts as currently we have less projects that at any point so theoretically we should have the most cash?
I recommend anyone to write to Ivy and request why the board made a decision to buy back 20% of shares but 5 months later have not done anything. We trade way below nav so its considerably improves shareholder value. Even a $1m buy back at current levels will make a considerable improvement to earnings per share. they said they would so why have they not done it yet?
i have sent several emails over the years to Ivy with limited response. I did see this so apparently we might need to write to their place of business in HK. I am tempted to try that as while my questions are very valid i have rarely had a response.
"Putting Enquiries by Shareholders to the Board
Shareholders may at any time send written enquiries to the Company for
the attention of the joint company secretary at the Company’s principal
place of business in Hong Kong. The Company will not normally deal with
verbal or anonymous enquiries.
the 223 best seller is out for anyone who can wade through it. http://iis.aastocks.com/20230428/10715383-0.PDF
I skimmed the first 40 pages and copied a few bits that do differ slightly to the earlier version. They do not really give much away about the future but i hope the next update is more substantial and they do start the share buy back as they agreed to do recently but nothing has happened so far :
"It is expected that China’s economy will experience a steady trend of recovery in 2023. The “14th Five Year Plan” Biobased Economy Development Plan was issued by the National Development and Reform Department which will ushered in new opportunities for development of green and low-carbon technologies such as new biomass
energy and biochemistry. The current development prospects of the Company’s industry should be more optimistic than that in 2022.
It is expected that China’s economy will experiencea steady trend of recovery in 2023. The “14th Five Year Plan” Biobased
Economy Development Plan was issued by the National Development and Reform Department which will ushered in new opportunities for development of green and low-carbon technologies such as new biomass
energy and biochemistry. The current development prospects of the Company’s industry should be more optimistic than that in 2022.
The Company has been deeply engaged in the bioenergy industry for many years and has developed certain cellulosic ethanol production technical solutions which can provide the technology and equipment required for industrialisation. The Company will continue to optimise its cellulosic ethanol technology and
build demonstrative projects under the mature administrative policies and
market conditions.
. One of them is a major project of the Ministry of Science and Technology concerning the vehicle and jet fuel synthesized by hydrothermal depolymerization and carburizing of biomass (RD064). In 2022, the manufacture
of pilot plant was basically completed, and it is expected that all trials will be finished in this year. In turn, we will obtain important technical data and equipment manufacturing experience, laying a solid foundation for us to achieve vertical and in-depth development of ethanol intensive processing industry chain. Another one is a major science and technology project (RD061) in Guangdong Province, which is carried out by our project team in close collaboration with a project team organised by various universities. The design and manufacture for the equipment have been finished. Currently, the construction of plant is carried out according to the processing plan, and the entire trial is expected
to be completed within this year. This will help the Company to prepare for meeting the technological requirements of national carbon peak and carbon neutrality strategy for bioenergy and green chemical production."
I think this paragraph is about we will get on future strategy and the talk on Hydrogen is all in the right direction but dissapointed there has not been more talk on actual new projects won post 31st December as the shares doubling was due to something? Little guidance on return to profitability. If the annual report aimed to damp enthusiasm and now company will buy back 20% of shares now is their chance as they really have not made much effort. I really hope they seize it as the company cant be worth any less than they are today.
“Business development strategy
In the next few years, with the world’s attention and commitment to carbon emission reduction and carbon neutrality and China’s dual carbon goals, application and development of new energy production technologies will enter into a new era. The Company will seize this historic opportunity and actively develop new technologies and new business given its leading position in the industry.
The Company aims to maintain technical advantages in the fuel ethanol market. Through our R&D efforts in the cutting-edge 1.5th and 2nd generation cellulose ethanol production technologies, hydrogen energy production technology, as well as high- carbon ethanol production technology through ethanol intensive processing and related equipment manufacturing, we shall be able to increase project income from cellulose ethanol, hydrogen energy industry and high-carbon ethanol equipment manufacturing in the future.
Looking forward, the Company will further strengthen the building of our marketing team, continuously improve the depth and breadth of sales network, maintain good relationships with the existing customers and actively acquire new customers. The Company will also proactively explore investment opportunities in related industries and increase production equipment manufacturing and technical service income from other chemicals in order to expand the current revenue mix.
Our R&D activities will focus on fuel ethanol technology, super grade alcohol, hydrogen production and equipment manufacturing technology and related chemical production processes. So long as our technology is ahead of the curve, the self-owned intellectual property will eventually convert into income from businesses of the Group.“
Yes. Not exactly talking strongly about the order book post December 31st or projects landed as we are told they are going guns by RB and Ivy so given we were almost 1/3 of the revenue in 2022 compared to 2021 that means something. Also no talk of the share buyback at all and you wonder why the share price doubled if the company did not buy back any shares. Presumably CNEL landed something big about a month ago to warrant that rise as the volume was unusually high? Why do some people have information to trade on and we do not have that in the public domain. At least we are not suspended again and it looks the changes in the way impairments are applied accounts for some of that loss. there was news on their R&D that obviously puts the company in the great place in the future and they have finalised some testing but it felt like it was years away before commercial orders. I hope the talk of Hydrogen and storage gives the company some growth as it is a massive but they seem to play down growth of Ethanol, which is odd as the rest of the world of Ethanol is booming so they feel a little to PRC focused and not looking at countries pushing E10 as standard. this may be going in the bottom drawer again sadly unless the board trigger the buy back or share news on project wins then pis have little to go on as today only insiders have the trading advantage. still today we have no idea what triggered large volumes of buys last month and that is incredibly frustrating.
Finally issued, 22.05 local time. An unexciting read!
Am I right that results have not been issued today after all?
15%up today, strange with a profit warning? Be interesting what we wake up 2 In the morning
Our trusty duo who were going to release results on the 29th have now decided it will be the 31st? Can this duo ever reliability do something except hand out cash to mates. Hopefully not how it ended last time and RB and all the rest are looking over their shoulder to make sure mates rates, mates contracts and mates buyouts are not involved in this delay.
https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2023/0328/2023032801449.pdf
I also hope impairment charges are not just a different word for back handers to the duo who were caught handing out excessive made up contracts to their mates. Lets hope the new auditors and risk team closely look at those “impairments” as its a blind spot. if the company CNEL are dealing with are solvent how can any of these companies somehow have a haircut on what is owed. Lets see how the future looks, if we are allowed to know anything.
While not exactly unexpected i am not sure why CNEL today issued a profit warning. We knew 1st half of 2022 was bad and most of 2nd half so its not exactly unexpected. For me what is annoying is that they do it to maximise fear around the stock when we are told it has bee stellar since Covid restrictions ended towards end of 2022 but nothing mentioned in thr profit warning. Sometimes you think the duo are doing this on purpose. https://www1.hkexnews.hk/listedco/listconews/sehk/2023/0327/2023032701660.pdf i only hope reports goes into more details on its future and not dwell on 2022 that was a one off event. It looks around a £4m loss which in many ways looks pretty good all things considered if 2023 takes us back to serious profit again. We will see but i hope they go all in on a 20% share buy back but they must open up on order book in 2023 and more details on their tech as for me they are almost hiding details from shareholders. I still feel the duo are up to something. Hopefully results will give a more robust update on the future as Ivy and RB have openly reported.
Soon find out as results due out 29th March. I dont know how the loss making period will factor into our result as its final results to 31st December 2022 and stellar order book might not be showing fully until 2023 year but i am most interested in forward looking statements, state of share buy back and even a dividend but that seems unlikely but if they want to grow the market cap they need to start doing basics. Certainly feel we are due another double to get back to net assets. if they have cracked hydrogen storage, zeolite membrane and all other technical developments we are sitting on a rocketship if the duo care to climb aboard than get up to tricks with their mates again.