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Wow - my personal view is that a company engaged in business with Evraz (B2B) is in a different situation to an individual doing business with Evraz (B2C) and again a PI taking the opportunity to participate in a buy out.
I can't see it being in the public interest to prosecute 100s/1000s of UK PIs for distancing themselves from a sanctioned entity. Again, this is not legal or investment advice, just my thoughts on the back of a fag packet. DYOR.
Anyway, I don't think your invested here so is this just a bit of an academic exercise for you...? If you've got no skin in the game, why are you bothering to post, out of interest?
My concerns would be that large multinational brokers might be incapacitated from acting as agent due to the sanctions regime.
Also, I don't know enough about Russian laws to know whether a distinction is made in Russia between a beneficial owner and a nominee appearing on the register. Presumably there may be title issues due to local laws in Russia.
These are vague concerns that I don't have enough to substantiate. One thing I do know is that custody laws in Russia are different to what we are used to in the West.
Here is also something to think about. Roman Abromovich transferred his shares from a corporate nominee to a direct holding. Why do you think he did the very thing Evraz are saying we need to do, long before we were told to do it?Coincidence? Maybe, but I don't believe in coincidences.
Everyone has to think about what they want to do and make their own decisions at the end of the day. It's no good coming on here in X amount of time and complaining that you followed the thinking of a random stranger on a bulletin board. Get advice from as many brokers as possible and test their answers. GLA
I believe that Evraz may delist from the LSE and relist in Russia. I believe that Roman Abromovich moved shares into his own name in preparation for things to come. It's all IMHO though and we should all base our decisions on the advice of the experts we trust.
You don't end up in limbo. You cancel the share certificate that got lost in the post and get a new one. After that you start the process of completing the stock transfer form all over again with the new certificate.
If you think the war will end soon (or relatively soon) and the sanctions will be lifted then it's worth thinking about the value of the tax wrapper.
If you think the war will drag on leaving the company facing difficult choices (such as delisting) then the benefits of a tax wrapper are not in the equation as the shares may not qualify anyway.
Nobody knows what's going to happen so it is really a personal decision based on your own views. But if you do have the paper certificates then, at least, you are on the shareholders register. Should that be a deciding factor later on then you may be relieved you were on the register, even if you became liable to taxation on income/gains.
All IMHO of course.
On a more serious note.
If you have paper certificates, you are the custodian. If you lose them then it's your responsibility to replace them.
Secondly, when you come to transfer you will need to complete a stock transfer form. It's not only additional administration for you, there will be time delays in processing the transfer as it is done by post. And if the documents get lost in the post then you have to replace the share certificate and start all over again.
"If you don't decide to convert, we will continue to reflect your Evraz shares on your portfolio, maintain a record of your holding on our books, and you will still be able to trade your Evraz shares through us if the suspension is lifted and trading of Evraz shares recommences on the London Stock Exchange."
Okay, so a broker is under a regulatory obligation to maintain a record of your holdings. That's not telling us anything new. And, duh, really? They will allow you to trade your shares once the suspension is lifted and trading recommences on the LSE. No s7it, wow!?
The response does not deal with the issues of whether they will process a transfer if the company delists and offers to buy out PIs, or what happens if the company re-lists on a different exchange. But if that's enough for you to take comfort in not following the advice from Evraz on how to secure title, then good luck to you. Personally, I'd rather not risk it and get my name on the register of shareholders. However, I'm with HL who haven't decided what they are able to do yet so can't go down that route yet.
Could we soon be shareholders of a Russian football club...?
https://www.londonworld.com/sport/football/chelsea/ex-chelsea-marina-granovskaia-to-roman-abramovich-eyeing-spartak-moscow-3780748
opulentia - I do share your frustrations. Russia does have Europe over a barrel with energy but most countries (less so countries like Hungary) are taking steps to reduce their dependance on Russia. But there is no quick way out for Europe and Russia knows that.
RA and Evraz is not things the governments of Europe are dependant on in any way so it's an easy one to cut off. Doesn't help the likes of you and I, but there you go. We're just collateral damage at the end of the day.
Paint thinner is flammable, isn't it... ? The article simply states that toluene was supplied for use in explosives. I suspect you'd need to consider how toluene is used in explosives, rather than as a paint thinner.
One of the main takeaways from the article is what Evraz will be doing (or forced to do) going forward due to the new law that compells Russian companies to support "national security and defense". As such precurement work is kept secret, I don't see how Evraz will be able to show that they don't now supply the Russian military, even if they successfully argued that they hadn't in the past
IMHO any hope of sanctions being lifted on Evraz are going to be on ice for a very long time. The only way shares may get back to trading is if Evraz split the Russian and non-Russian activities. The chances of that are about zero squared.
This article sheds a bit more light on issues already raised regarding Evraz's involvement with the Russian military.
https://www.occrp.org/en/37-ccblog/ccblog/16587-despite-denials-abramovich-companies-have-supplied-materials-for-russian-military
Thanks for sharing. I think this is a very sensible way forward and I hope that other brokers do the same thing.
The broker has the share certificate which identifies the legal owner (i.e. the nominee account). By reference to their sub-register, the broker can then identify the beneficial owners and whether they hold the shares within a tax wrapper or outside of a tax wrapper.
There may be a custody charge for holding the share certificate (the broker has to keep it safe and I believe that they also need to reconcile the certificate against their sub-register on a regular basis). This may incur an annual fee but given the circumstances (i.e. this is being forced on us by the resignation of the registrar) I would hope that brokers will waive any custody charges.
I would imagine that there are discussions to be had around that point between Evraz and the brokers that own the nominee accounts.
The brokers maintain their own sub-register which identifies which of the broker's client is the beneficial owner of the shares in their nominee account. If the broker shares that sub-register with Evraz, then Evraz can identify who owns the shares. But understandably brokers will have reservations about handing over all that personal data. They may not be able to do it without the written consent of the beneficial owners. I'm sure it's doable in theory but the clock is ticking and we are in holiday season.
No broker is going to want to undertake on a large scale? I think you're assuming that there will be simultaneous and large scale redemption through a single broker. Me thinks not.
I have accounts with HL and Redmaynes. I have share certificates in my files and if I phone Remaynes and tell them I want to sell 1,000 shares in for example Pru, they will ask me if I have a certificate. As long as I have a certificate for at least 1,000 shares, they process the trade and send me a new certificate for the balance minus 1,000 shares. It just doesn't settle as quickly as shares held in custody by the broker. But if you don't want to pay custody fees, you take the certificate and hold it yourself. There are plenty of people that don't want to pay custody and are in no hurry for settlement.
If Evraz does trade again and shareholders have certificates, they will sell them as and when through whichever broker they choose to execute the trade. It's no biggy.
As for this being a step to going private, it's not IMHO. The registrar has given Evraz notice, not the other way around.
Most stockbrokers will take share certificates. That's how it was dealt with in the past. No settlement is made until after the cert is received but that's the only down side for PI's.
Just need the suspension come to an end...