As I have stated previously, INSTEAD of clicking 'reply' type a SIMILAR title into a new post 'subject' box.
That way, IF the whole thread is removed YOURS won't be, and others will know you are responding to them, especially if you use their username at the start.
Bold type for LTI as 'logical advice' oft plunges him into confusion.
… seems to occur, what I 'thought' were decent results, drive to shareprice down.
I understand that 'good' news is 'bad' news for the wider economy as bad news usually means QE or similar is ramped up, or kept going, but not 'getting' the problem here?
Held these for over a decade and not disappointed with such, just bemused.
site planted with Winter crops, likely the only oil coming from it will be Veg oil.
Down to see my Brother, and as the site is in the MAIN veg growing areas of White and the Island is dependant on such and tourists can't see this taking off there easily.
The locals seem uniformed or unwilling to talk about oil in the White Lion.
A plumbing wholesaler built on the sweet spot seemed cagy when questioned, mind I only bought a sink plunger.
Either they have been told to say nothing or are as dim as they appeared.
… 'Profits' have become a dirty word, something to criticise and deride from the lefties and the growing masses who own nothing, and never will in this country, then ALL banks will be kept down a heel, and never again be allowed to make huge profits with HMG (whichever party) after years of deliberate 'bank bashing' NOT finding ways to syphon off a massive proportion of such to aid the great unwashed.
The bank bashing, was done for a reason as I said at the time, to soften up the public to blame the lender, not the squanders, who live well beyond their means, yet now blame the hand that supplied the new kitchen, the new cars, the better home.
The public, due to years of brainwashing that 'somehow' filling a small country with impoverished people, arriving with 'nothing' could enrichen everyone was another Government ploy.
Why, because to lower the wage base for unskilled and semi skilled labour enrichens those who own, or are invested in those businesses, as the lower wages then paid save the business cash. BUT the short fall in workers income is then 'made up' via working tax credits, child tax credits, heavily subsidised rent and council tax, and then we have to fund more child allowance, fund the newcomers childrens educational costs, and pay to treat all.
So this comes from stealth taxes and cut backs making the nation poorer, BUT the MP's and their ilk who do own or are invested in such businesses richer.
Add to the 'issue' the fact that more people, again, by supply and demand rules forces rents higher, and as the MP's familes and ilk own plenty of property and land, and also 'armed' with the inside knowledge of where new towns will be built, the temptation for family members and friends to buy up cheap farmland must be huge.
So whilst ordinary British end up with lower wages and yet higher rents, the well to do gain on both fronts.
Easy to see WHY most MP's and well to do, do not wish this new economic modern slavery to end, hence keeping us firmly in the EU.
An equally easy to see why most ordinary people want out.
Problem is 'they' make the rules as we are seeing.
No wonder Lloyds suffers as now, most cannot afford to buy as with lower wages and higher rents, saving enough is near impossible.
"The share price does not determine a dividend payment amount and dividend policy."
I have NEVER suggested it did.
BUT, the dividend payment amount and dividend policy DOES effect the share price.
As the share price falls, then the yield becomes more attractive to shares then bought.
Similarly, IF the share price was to climb, then, as you correctly say, the share price does NOT effect the dividend paid, then should the s.p double, the dividend if the sum paid remained constant, the yield to all new shares purchased would be HALF.
Thus putting off dividend income investors, hence everyone tries to buy as low as possible to get the best yield.
You KNOW what I am referring too, but just like to argue, to boost your ego, trying to gain some kudos as this share has not measured up as you wrongly assumed.
Few of us imagined that it would be as low as Brenberg so accurately predicted, now PPI is all but over.
The country is kept by in work benefits, with many doing 20hrs just to claim such, and as little chance of many gaining a mortgage, loans and credit card debt gives the young a 'feeling' of achievement as they buy the latest phone or a designer item, as their future is taken from them by a continuing stream of low paid workers ensuring 'time' will only make it worse, never better.
I am fully aware that the dividend is not paid on the 'market' price of the share, but the 'yield' is gauged by the market price of the share.
So, when people go on about the percentage they are getting on their shares, IF the shares were double in price, the yield would be half of what we are now receiving.
Thus, I was making the point, that for Lloyds to be seen as a good dividend yield paying share, then it is in the interests of the CEO that the share market price is low, to be able to 'still' say we are paying 5% plus, for 'IF' he wanted to pay out 5% but the share was over £1, then he would have to pay out DOUBLE of what he does now out of profits. OR Lloyds would be a 2.x % yielding share, then NOT so attractive to new buyers.
Thank you for your polite but mis-understood correction of my perhaps confusing posting.
Two ways of raising dividend yield, pay out more hard won cash and gain the wrath of HMG, or lower your shareprice with ever grim news, bad acquisitions etc and then crow you are paying a 'market leading yield' AND keep your paymaster happy by having the 'saved' cash spent how HMG require.
I think I know what will be most likely.
It hardly takes a genius to see what Questor only 'now' apparently sees.
Interest rates cannot rise for fear of collapsing the whole economy.
Lloyds and most UK banks as I have said, are no longer the powerful bastions they once were, and will never ever be so again. They are now despite all but RBS in private hands, but the puppet master strings still end at N. 10.
Imo, such banks will be used to prop up the British economy with much of any profits that they still can make, as they have with PPI, and as 'bad debt' increases, they will be used to fund the feckless over bad loans, car finance and of course credit card debt.
I am unsure if Lloyds knowingly added more risk by taking on the recently acquired credit card company, persuaded by HMG by either a large carrot or a large stick, or, if they feel the profits would outweigh the losses. But I feel the CEO and HMG are more in one another's pocket than the CEO's interest in enriching the pockets of long suffering share holders.
The CEO knows the 5%+ div, will be 'enough' to keep investors here, and has either allowed or accepted that by having a lowly share price, that, that 5%+ dividend is affordable. So the shareprice imo, won't rise much, as IF it were say one pound, then to pay out 5% would cost Lloyds more than they can afford to pay out, especially with HMG eyeing the 'now defunct' PPI pot of gold, as it no doubt is planning new ways to funnel it into the impoverished plebs hands, at our costs to keep the high street tills ringing a little longer.
Questor never mentioned commercial debt, which I think will be a major worry for Lloyds along with credit cards woes.
Dire outlook for the UK as more impoverished arrive daily, and self reproduce more bodies to house, educate, treat and feed, but without a pot to urinate in, so others who 'have' then have their living standards lowered, or cut backs to raise those of people that most never wanted here in the first place.
Still as the rich gain by lower wages paid, and higher property and rents, both directly effected by supply and demand, don't expect the UK's impoverished population to drop, only get far far worse. God help Lloyds mortgage business, as bad debt the only game in town, but with the Loaner, not the borrower punished when it all goes wrong.
Love you, anyone who travels in far larger land massed countries than the UK must, if like me, have questioned deeply, WHY are our roads in such a terrible condition in the UK, when, for ever few hundred yards travelled there will be a vehicle upon that road in the UK, paying road tax, paying a fortune in fuel duty, and paying tax on car insurance and vat on every tyre, car repairs etc.
I have just come back from Southern Spain, have driven thousand miles plus, and their roads are quiet, yet their motorways and A roads are wonderful, wide, in great condition, many spanning huge ravines and dried river beds, which must cost a fortune to bridge, along with tunnels through mountains etc.
Now, as the country is large, and miles of motorway has to be kept in a good state of repair, but have few people on it compared with our crowded roads, one would think OUR roads would be far far better than thiers
Same applies to our railways, trains stopping every few minutes picking up paying fares, whereas huge countries STILL have to maintain sometimes hundreds of miles of track, between stops, and again with fewer paying passengers.
Same with electricity grid, our small country has a huge population all paying their bills, and the wires feeding a paying customer every few yards, whereas in huge counties again miles of lines to maintain build and service, yet with fewer paying customers.
Same with water pipes, gas,etc.
I know much of road tax is NOT spent on roads, BUT you see my point, that WE, the UK should, with our massive population BUT physically small land mass, have the best roads, trains, cheapest electic, gas, water, sewage fees of anywhere.
Same with council tax, with the huge amount of homes paying in, why should WE have to have libraries, public toilets, and service cut, when more and houses are being built all paying in ever more. Our doctors, hospitals, etc SHOULD be the best in the world.
Where is all this income going?
Much now is being spent on the third worlds ex pats filling our land to ruination, but it still does not explain the simple question of how other lands with more length of rail tracks, roads, grid systems etc, all can afford free parking, better toilets, childrens playgrounds in the most remote locations, with few paying consumers.
Love to know the real honest answer.
Says a lot about people, that they happily accept positive brokers reports, yet dis any negative ones, despite the fact that many brokers have been 'suggesting' higher prices for this share for over a decade.
Yet Brenberg's accurate calls were, like anyone speaking with a little more vision, ridiculed at the time.
Guess that's what keeps the market going, millions of hopefuls funding those who see reality, rather than merely 'what they wish' to be true.
Even a broken clock is right at times, unless it is digital and the display is blank.
Few MP's wish to see the EU gravy train end for them, as YOU wouldn't if you and your family gained immensely from such, just to give the working classes what they want. So can't see a real Brexit occurring. Hope is all we have for Lloyds and Brexit, but both if honest, seem to have little chance of anything great happening.
More debt, more bodies arriving to lower wages, force rents higher an add to overcrowding on roads, doctors, hospitals, jails, schools, maternity wards, all costing the country more, and the 'gain' from low wage employment is cancelled out by in work benefits such as tax credits, child tax credits, family allowance, heavily subsidised rent and council tax, maternity grants and time off, costly education, costly NHS fees.
NOT bad for just suffering on the journey for a lifetime of you and yours being kept and only having to do a few hours (20) to get all the above, so pay in little or nothing on such a low income.
Did you think the 'weather' was THE attraction?
God help LLOYDS and our own IF we don't leave
Just as I suggested. Banks will continue to be 'used' to fund the feckless, who, either through tender age, not understanding the small print, deliberate greed and selfishness, will con banks to pay for their recklessness.
PPI was the start, but sadly not the end.
All such taking of those shareholders in banks, scalping their profits, will be actively, albeit 'quietly' encouraged by HMG, as it feeds directly into the high street tills.
The banks CEO's couldn't care less, as none will come from their huge salaries or bonus.
It as always will be the shareholders, who, as I have also said before, aren't going to get double digit dividend payments, as WHY should the CEO do so, when five or six percent will keep most holding anyway.
As the share price is this low, the return is deemed 'good enough', so there is no reward for the CEO in 'paying' more, YET there is reward in keeping HMG 'sweet'.
So expect Lloyds to take on more debt, and when, as we are already seeing, more bad debt turns sour, the PPI no longer needed cash, will find a new home, in bailing out those who have bought, many with the knowledge they can't pay it back, but they know a lot of shareholders who, again, will do so.
I was correct about the EU vote, always, said the ruling classes would not let the plebs have their way, as like anyone in power, they 'make' the rules.
Our only redress is to vote for more of the same, or riot, but how many on here, or elsewhere will do that?
They know most are too gutless, too afraid, and it will be the 'usual' lot topping up on trainers and iphones who will use 'any' excuse to riot, whereas the small cost of that, for the ruling classes will be peanuts as to what 'they' would lose if coming out of the EU, so in or a leave in name only will be what will happen, as I said the day after the vote.
People will moan, but will have no choice but to put up with the undemocratic rubbish that rules.
As Lloyds is apparently considering taking over challenger bank, then brace yourself for more misery. Unlike a house repo, Lloyds won't be able to resell a used, fag smelling 'designer' frock with baby dribble, from some chav who cannot or refuses to pay.
Banks will never be what they were, now just a social security cash cow, to be used as a buffer by any HMG to ease the burden on them.
…. on the 30th August:
' Always thinking outside the box, and wonder IF Boris has been installed to pretend to the public and watching world that he is fully dedicated to getting out, even without a deal. But, in reality, at the last minute the EU will agree to drop the backstop, already know to both parties, Boris will then accept the deal May struck, in other words, leave in name only, BUT to the public and watching world, he would have 'seemed' to try have carried out the democratic wishes of the majority, and thus keep both the image of the Tory party being fully democratic, and indeed the UK being a democratic nation intact.'
Oh what it is to 'see it how it is likely to be, NOT how you wish it to be so'
Pantherax, thank you for explaining the financial advantages of quarterly dividends if re-investing in such a graphic, easy to understand way. So much more pleasant than the usual sniping when someone disagrees with a differing view.
Makes good sense as many of us do hold rather a lot and to regain any lost wealth due to inflation is welcome.
Asperger. Never realised you were of more advanced years, always assumed you were youngish. Least your posts come over that way. Glad the quarterly payments will help. Hope the plastic is with Lloyds.
….why people on here are excited about receiving the dividends 'more often' for it is ONLY the same 'pot' divided into smaller segments.
Those who do, do dividend reinvestment will then have to pay out even more hard won income on EXTRA dealers fees.
I am sure that some imagine that they will be getting extra cash, not the same amount divided up into smaller portions. If so, God help us.
Likely it will also incur some negligible but real costs for Lloyds to do so, so 'nothing to see here'.
I 'know' it is supposed to stabilise the share price somewhat, but so was consolidations, and it too did no good for RBS when carried out.
Still, if it makes some 'temporarily' happy...
….. to get back to break even. Sure have had a few years div since, but often that was stupidly re-invested at much higher prices than now, so loss on them atm.
Also when those long years of inflation are taken into account seriously the 'worth' of the initial investment, then in the 'real world' still have a long way to go before 'truly' breaking even.
Still two good things we seem to have lost Cathsoames aka jayfax, and also Freya, so some joy to be had.
Remember guys with Lloyds it is highly likely the Brexit deal' will be fully priced in, and then some, come the announcement, with many dull posts asking 'why did we fall on good news for Lloyds' if the past decade of posting is anything to go by.
Perhaps people are more wise now.
Still many 'sold up' at the bottom, so not convinced.
IF we get a deal, then project fear will go into overdrive to highlight ALL the negatives and supress all the positives miffed as they wanted to 'stay'.
Best hope Cathsoames has moved to her beloved Europe or has the Samaritans number on speed dial.
who risked and gave their lives, almost all, imo, did so to protect their loved ones and their own KNOWN way of life.
Those who lived in less fortunate times never wished it to get worse, as they were likely correct in assuming life would become for their loved ones and themselves, should their country be the losers in any war.
And all the hype about the foreign soldiers standing alongside the British etc, they too, for the greatest amount would ALSO have done so for the same reason, knowing or expecting their lives and their loved ones lives to take a huge turn for the worst, if they were to allow the enemy to win, no doubt heavily aided by propaganda.
Same as people know coming here from foreign lands, they rightly do so for 'themselves' and their loved ones better futures, NOT for our sake, as in too many cases it is detrimental to the indigenous people in a variety of ways.
See life how it is on both sides of an argument as one would IF we removed the rose tints, AND were 'honest'.
If your son or daughter were to go off to war, they would not be doing so for 'future, unborn people they never would know' they would do so for their lifestyle and family of today, and maybe their unborn children, but few would risk life and limb for future strangers.
Lloyds has suffered badly over the enforced low wage culture with higher rents, and leaving the EU, hopefully, as freedom of movement ends, or is limited to work visas may help to return the balance of lower rents and higher wages, BOTH seriously challenged by 'supply and demand' rules.
Interesting topic, but sensitive too, but the race card will see any such truthful discussion lost, which cures nothing but caused deep resentment on all sides.
Best be honest but listen to all sides imo.
Don't come much clearer than the CEO and top brass abandoning ship.
Who ever would have thought so, with members of this very bb, telling the world, that 'once' PPI was over, we would fly, even have some of the 'set aside' cash redistributed as a 'special'.
Buybacks cancelled was the first 'direct' warning from Lloyds, now the top brass putting their money where their mouth 'isn't, the coup de grass.
Many of us could see this share never had a hope, as the UK filled it's land with desperate but impoverished people, a charitable act, but charity does not make cash for banks.
So lower wages and higher rents, both caused by supply and demand from extra people killed off the ability for many to save the larger deposit needed, as earning less, but paying out more meant funds were limited.
Add to that the increase in stealth tax to fund low wage earners income, via in work benefit top ups, such as child tax, and working tax credits, along with rent and council tax subsidies for the low paid, was just too much for those who 'once' could have purchased a home of their own, but now stuck in rental properties for life.
Perhaps once out of the EU, and out of the freedom of movement, wages will rise as less people come here, and perhaps if some return then rents will lower a little too.
Sadly I fear the 'wrong sort' of immigrants will return however leaving the tax costly ones, and those who do contribute more than they take will leave.
Should have invested in robots, with no legs, or genitals. Least they can't leave, or produce costly clones if unemployment becomes a huge issue for the world and the UK once again.
Worrying times. I am still holding all mine, as I always get it wrong. Glad I never invested the div fully, as that's gone and then some.
Sauras, at this rate, having few teeth won't matter too much when we all meet up at the local soup kitchens.
Seriously hope all is well, health is more important than money, but with an overburdened NHS we need the latter sometimes to aid the former.
I unsure whether to add, or wait too.
Nice to see you back trick,
Wids agree with you almost entirely, until the last para.
Whilst the 'people' now, even more than in the past, where most 'trusted' the BBC, are certainly not stupid and are more informed than ever, their 'power' has been taken from them, and apart from the 'usual' who will riot, are unafraid of using knives, guns, as coming from areas where such violence and disruption is the norm, will YOU, your neighbour be out on the streets?
I certainly won't, and I suggest most real British will be sat with a 'cuppa' watching those steal huge TV's, whilst watching such on their paid for and licenced apparatus.
Normal people don't wish to break the law, they also know that the comfortable life they have, despite seeing it erode slowly, don't wish it to end totally, as then WHO has won anything.
The MP's the rich, own the police, the army, and whilst a few faces will seemingly be 'shown to be removed' to quell the rioters, should strictly hinting at an 'affair' not be shown, otherwise there won't be many real British on the streets imo.
A placard, a bucket of bricks and the odd bottle of petrol, if the plastic, or fuel isn't grabbed by some green do gooder first, will do little to prevent the rulers, leaders from continuing on their huge successful mission to ensure their lives are always getting better at the expense of the masses.
They used to use religion to do such, then brute force, now much slyer and equally as effective.
Lloyds shares are over the decade plus I have held them dire, no matter what Asperger's interesting yet more 'recent' comparison accurately shows.
May do, if inflation runs at 100%.
Lloyds imo is suffering as Metro has, from low interest rates, AND high risk of unemployment, falling house prices and with the additional problem of holding much commercial debt, along of course with even more personal Credit card debt.
All fine in a growing economy, NOT so good in a likely recession, falling house prices and an impoverished nation, who can no longer 'bail out' the indebted, BUT know of a large bank who can.
Those years of bank bashing have 'softened up' the public into being all too keen to see banks punished by using their profit (which in todays twisted world is seen as wrong) to fund their feckless lifestyles.
Fear not though, it won't come from the CEO's salary or bonus.
Diminishing RETURNS for mortgage lenders is 'the' problem.
Plenty of growing RISK, but with lower returns.
This is why Lloyds is ebbing ever lower.
Taking on more risk, at little profit, is not something many would do, but as I have often said. I wonder how deeply HMG and the CEO's of UK banking are involved, and in a national crisis, thanks to the UK's housing stock being filled with newcomers, there is no way on Earth HMG could house 'defaulters' on mortgages, even IF they wanted to.
But instead, large banks, such as Lloyds, can, via taking ex PPI cash, and OUR dividends, afford to cut, freeze, cap payments on their mortgages, whereas the rest of the small challenger banks haven't the wherewithal to do that, IF as I suspect ANY Government find the country's mortgage holders need help.
So IF I am correct we will have div's cut, or not growing to fund the unfortunate, the alternative is homes ARE repo'd, and house prices drop, causing Lloyds to fall anyway.
A lose lose, so I shouldn't cheer the challenger banks rats jumping off their little ships, for the larger ships, may take longer to go down, but make a bigger splash when they do.
A lose lose situation, no wonder we are where we are.