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New
“Always open to shorting attacks…..”
Looks as though there’s been a concerted bear raid on DT today - with lots of pile on trades.
They timed their raid for today because it’s the bank holiday weekend. If memory serves they attacked DT on the Friday, on the last bank holiday. Todays fall has textbook bear raid written all over it.
Pity we don’t have US style regulation to protect our companies - determining a shareprice by mass-collective-shorting is gross manipulation, pure and simple.
Does Truss really think she can convince ARM to list in London, where it will get trashed by hyena hedge funds and boiler room operations; and trade at a fraction of the value it will in the US. It would be suicide for any tech firm to list in London because of the huge intelligence deficit. Wise & DT must rue not listing in New York.
Nid
“East and West as bad as each other”
I’ve heard lots of dumb statements on these boards but your’s gets the gold medal.
CR
Wise is a dead cert for a takeover, it’s not a question of if, it’s a question of when.
There’s been very little M&A activity in the financial sector since the financial crisis, but all that could change. Valuations for UK banks are paltry. Once again you’ve got this issue with an intellectually challenged market, incapable of valuing shares fairly. Add to that factor the weakness of the pound and you have virtual bargains for overseas buyers. That’s why all our decent British companies get taken over.
Morgan Stanley & Goldman Sachs must be running the rule over Barclays. Barclays shareprice trades on the cheapest book value of any ftse100 stock.
As for Wise, I believe it will get swallowed by a big bank. HSBC would be a front runner. £8.50 a share would be enough to close the deal.
CR
You can add Rolls Royce to that list
About £7.8 debt
One of the ftse100’s most indebted companies.
Not a great choice of investment.
CR
“We are told Dark has cash
No real debts “
————————-
From reading your posts, it seems as though you have no access to DT’s financial data.
Don’t you read balance sheets before investing - as part of your due diligence?
Darktrace has £60 million registered as debt in the form of capital lease obligations. (quasi-debt)
Cash & equivalents show a healthy £391 million on the balance sheet.
Heavily indebted companies are best avoided in my experience. Ones to watch out for are
Wetherspoons - £1.425 billion debt
Aston Martin - £1.3 billion debt
Vodafone - €40 billion++ debt
BT - £22 billion
Carrying excessive debt weighs on a stock’s shareprice - that’s why telecoms have underperformed so badly in recent years.
And it’s a red flag for insolvency.
Cineworld is a textbook example of a company that drowned in debt - $8.9 billion including their lease obligations.
I wouldn’t bet against Wetherspoons going bust in the current economic environment.
Stump
“So if they are shorting, it's below 0.5% of the shares.”
If you read the link to one of my previous posts today you’ll know that the V shape in a shareprice’s movement frequently signifies short-term shorting activity.
I don’t doubt for a moment the continuous volatility in DT is down to Shadowfall and their accomplices shorting the company when it reaches to a certain point, and short closing when it falls to a certain number - hence the V shape.
As you know volatility is great for making money. When a share fluctuates as wildly as DT it will attract legions of short-term traders (like myself)
And when good news is announced the SP can rise precipitously as shorters rush for the exit.
Below is an exert from the article.
“That’s evidence that the stocks continue to fall, not just pop back up in a V shape, which critics have noted can happen if a short-seller covers on the day of the report.
But the existence of the V-shaped pattern elsewhere has led to calls for more disclosure from several places — including, interestingly, from inside the world of short-selling.“
Ocado may be a laggard in its sector, but it’s the king of cashburn. Only Rolls Royce can compete.
Still trading on a massive price/earnings valuation. Realistically it should trade for pennies.
Investors ought to expect yet another hefty cash call while the shareprice still trades in pounds.
If the Business model can’t turn a profit after all these years, you have to question whether Ocado will still exist in the not too distant future.
Farmer
You made a number of personal attacks on me in previous posts, then when I finally responded to your provocations, you contacted LSE and got my post removed.
Well that shows what kind of a man you are!
If you’re going to pick a fight, don’t pick it with someone infinitely more intelligent than yourself.
I very rarely filter anyone but I can’t stand rats.
You’re history.
Very informative article explaining the dynamics of the murky (under)world of shorting.
The content will be beyond the comprehension of some of this board, but some will find it extremely insightful.
Bullet points to look for are…
1) Activist short sellers - paid by murky hedgefunds to spread lies and misinformation about companies
2) Big hedge funds bankrolling boiler room operations to spread misinformation on short
targets
3) hyena hedge funds collaborating to attack their short targets - by actioning “pile on trades” through voluminous algorithmic trading.
4) publication of fabricated, negative news to determine a favorable outcome.
5) how big short funds avoid litigation, through using individuals to spread mendacious news on social media platforms.
And numerous other crimes, hyena hedge funds commit to manipulate stock prices
For those of you that don’t know.
Muddy Waters (an infamous short scalper) is in league with Shadowfall.
https://www.institutionalinvestor.com/article/b1pgz6k9kjs50v/The-Dark-Money-Secretly-Bankrolling-Activist-Short-Sellers-and-the-Insiders-Trying-to-Expose-It
Pussy
That link is jclick bait - a series of assumptions leading up to a slimy American sales pitch.
I’m positive on DT but that source is totally disreputable.
CR
“All shorts should be gone or going very soon …”
What is it with these unenlightened boards that make the practice of shorting so hard to understand?
Shorting is just the same as buying
Except you sell first and buy later
And you allude to short positions being permanently open when most of the time shorts are taken out by day/short term traders. The same as traders do when they go long.
Shadowfall are short-term short traders.
Below is a short history of shadowfall/Darktrace association.
Shadowfall are boiler room operators who know considerably less about stocks than I do.
They jumped on the short bandwagon when Peel Hunt raised a flag stating DT was overvalued.
And our boiler room boys (like hyenas who always return to the same watering hole) have been plaguing DT ever since. And then…
TB announce a potential bid
The coked-up boiler room boys in their London cellar soil their pants. Their short term shorts are suddenly showing eye-watering losses.
So what do they do?
They try to drive the shareprice down by issuing negative comments (that cannot be proven to be true or false) BEFORE TB have even come to a decision to bid, in an attempt to drive the shareprice down.
Got nothing against shorting, I short stocks myself sometimes. But being short and trash-talking a company you have large losing short position on is manipulation. Instead of betting on an outcome you are attempting to determine that outcome.
Illegal in the USA - Regulators would never tolerate it Shadowfall would have had their cellar raided, shut down and all boiler room employees arrested (most of whom are out on bail anyway)
So their you have it.
Shorting by stealth
Keeping positions small enough to go under the radar.
And short term shorting.
And I know this because I’m
ToffAppleton
The King of the Game
Clueless
“don't forget about all the competition that DARK faces and DARK's products aren't cheap.”
These uninformed boards never cease to amaze me.
You’ve been wiped out on your Cineworld investment tragedy, and here you are on another board offering people unwanted advice. You must know you’re in no position to give anyone investment advice.
You talking about warning flags pertaining to Darktrace. Well let me ask you this…
Didn’t you spot any warning flags when you piled in, repeatedly averaged down, and went all in with Cineworld?
Such as the $8.9 billion debt.
The lousy asset stripping management.
The sale and leaseback of their entire property portfolio.
And a hundred other red flags.
You couldn’t spot a red flag if you were wrapped up in one.
It defies belief that someone with your track record should dare to offer others advice.
My advice to posters on these boards is to learn to separate the wheat from the chaff, because if you listen to posters life clueless you’re going to end up broke. Stone broke.
And that’s coming from ToffAppleton…
The King of the Game
“It’s hardly been the best week for Darktrace”
On the contrary, I think it’s been an exceptionally good week for Darktrace. They’ve retained their independence, staved off predatory vulture funds and kept their investors inside.
Do we feel compelled to sell because some American vulture fund makes an offer - I think not.
Darktrace is a futuristic goldmine.
£25 a share wouldn’t be out of the question once the dust has settled.
“Darktrace only floated on the London Stock Exchange last year but already it has become a takeover target.”
Absolutely, it only floated in May 21. It seems the management have got far more confidence in the company than the investors. I put that down to investor illiteracy in the UK
That Darktrace attracted predatory suitors so soon after floating is a testament to its incredible product.
And on a final note - Britain has lost too many valuable tech companies to the US so I’m hoping Darktrace remain British.
How are we ever going to build up our economy in the era of Charles 3 if all our best companies get bought out for peanuts.
£20 a share in 2025?
Highly likely in my very experienced opinion
And ToffAppleton…
Is the King Of The Game
Old Troll
“Some on here actually like to have sensible discussions bringing factual content to the table.”
I’ve already discredited and exposed you as a pathological liar. You claimed I had millions of Cineworld shares when in reality I don’t own a single share and never have. Anyone who doubts me and believes you need only refer to my posting history.
As for sensible discussion - you?
You’ve got to be kidding - you’ve got all the elegance and finesse as the boiler room boys you adore at Shadowfall :-))
Feel privileged that I took the time to reply, but don’t expect anymore - I usually ignore attention seeking Trolls.
Old gold
Anyone can read my posting history and see from my multiple posts on cineworld that I’ve been consistently negative. In fact I’m probably Cineworld’s biggest assassin.
You’re following Shadowfall’s example by making things up - but that’s what I’d expect from an old troll like you. Perhaps you can’t read?
Regarding Darktrace - outside miners it’s been my biggest money maker since December last year. Been buying in repeatedly @400 and selling at a profit (short term trader) I can’t be bothered adding up my profits on Darktrace but it’s a five figure number.
All I have in Darktrace now are 700 shares.
Bacchu
Get your facts straight before you start barking at me.
In Darktrace’s financial results posted on Thursday, “the firm said that the cash offer has now been “terminated.” Thoma Bravo said it had not made an offer but reserved the option to make a bid in the next six months”
From this article.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/darktrace-stock-collapses-30-after-takeover-talks-end-11662627607
Although TB walked away, they reserved the right to make another bid after six months. Make of that what you will - but to me, it alludes to TB retaining an interest in a takeover.
The boiler room boys from Shadowfall may be rejoicing for now, but Darktrace is likely to get taken over eventually.
What I can’t understand is why the toothless fairy which is the FCA allows a boiler room outfit to disseminate false narratives about Darktrace. They’re obviously fabricating fake news and shorting the company at the same time. There’s no way regulators would allow that in the USA so why do they allow boiler room operations to do it here.
Shadowfall’s erroneous opinions have no foundation- they are imaginary scenarios plucked out of thin air to support their short position. Tech products are more difficult to value than most other businesses - and Shadowfall are using that void to attack the company for all its worth. They are preying on the ignorance of investors, using fabricated scare stories.
The onus is on Darktrace to confront misinformation, otherwise markets are going to believe it. Hopefully Darktrace will issue a statement soon, explaining why TB walked away (for now)
Lots of speculative comments about the nature of the business/product but the litmus test is whether it works or not.
And like any bodyguard in the physical world it is only called into play when faced with a threat.
Darktrace’s big mistake was listing on the UK market rather than in the US. British investors are woefully inadequate at understanding/valuing technology company; evident in the paucity of tech companies in the indexes. In my opinion this anomaly is down to a huge intelligence deficit inherent in the nation.
One certain outcome from the absence of a bid will be that the shorting hedge fund hyenas who have been plaguing this stock since it floated will wade in with thousands of small sell trades to drive the SP down. I expect it to test £3 before the week’s out.
These hyena funds, more than anyone, misunderstand Darktrace’s product. In true Neanderthal fashion they can’t comprehend that something intangible can be worth anything. (as all tach companies products are) But you’d expect that from boiler room operations staffed out with coke snorters.
Clueless
“I am very aware of the 0.50% requirement to report shorts thresholds,”
So why post the link to a website that only exposes declared shorts of 0.5 percent or higher???
Knowing the game as I do, I was merely explaining how hyena hedge funds keep their short position below this threshold to evade detection.
The game isn’t black and white as your posts suggest, it’s made up of numerous shades of grey.