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ICblue, this issue has been raised over the last year or so, suggest you check posting history for me and others. Bowley has the best insights into this country, but as expected he is derided by the ignorant and desperate. There is little point in opening up a debate on this with those who are never willing to listen. If you doubt fine.
Manxkippers,
This is NOT good news! Having to drag the Ambassador to meetings signifies problems.
Good news is when the Ambassador is invited to cut the ribbon on production commencement, not when having to attend meetings to fight MATD’s corner due to ongoing holdups, which are almost certainly due to corruption!
ShortShrift, you present reasoned views and arguments. The bureaucracy here is legendary for its tardiness and I have no doubts this is part of the equation. It is not I believe the full answer and cannot explain the length of delays. If it were I would not worry. Where corruption creeps in ( it is as you know endemic in Mongolia) it needs more than keeping fingers crossed. As I have said before. This project WILL come good but unless the corruption element is swept away the benefit will not be accrued by the PIs but by those who have unlawfully achieved interests in the business and its development.
ShortShrift, companies like MATD cannot deal with this alone. They need the support of the British Government, through the British Embassy. The British Government has a policy of limited support for new O&G development overseas, but this has exceptions, including where a British company is experiencing difficulties of this type. The problem however seems that the Foreign Office may not be interpreting and applying the legislation this way and are not therefore giving their total/full support to dealing with the matter. If they did I am sure (I am aware of similar cases in the past) that it could be resolved in reasonable time. There have been multiple Ministerial visits, Trade envoy visits, Regional trade and investment visits etc where this issue could have been raised at the highest levels (Prime Minister President etc included). I have seen no discussion or evidence of this). The 60th Anniversary of Diplomatic Relations was just celebrated. This would have provided a perfect opportunity to press the case for Petro Matad. I heard no mention. I am told that the Embassy has said it will no longer answer enquiries as to what support it is providing. I would suggest that all investors press the case with Petro Matad, the Embassy and even their MPs who have an interest and responsibility in ensuring that British Companies are not disadvantaged. I have made representations, but an odd voice in the wind has very little impact.
RG27, This is the reality. Corruption is at the root of these delays. Until this is addressed (either by acquiescing or dealing effectively with this challenge) the project will not progress. In either case PIs stand to lose out the longer that this drags on. The management are aware of this but appear incapable of rising to the challenge.
Not idiots Manro but experts in exaction. This is common practice in Mongolia for a very good reason; it fill pockets! Corruption and extortion tend to dominate many business deals/enterprises in Mongolia. MATD is a case in point. The difference here however is that unlike many they have been incapable of dealing with these issues effectively and in reasonable time. The question is when will an accommodation be reached.
Thornogson, identification of corruption by the general public in such cases as the Tavan Tolgoi and public procurement projects is an essential element in getting the issues into the open, getting them resolved and preventing them from continuing to blight the projects. Wittingly or ignorantly ridiculing or denying the presence of corruption simply helps to cover it up and helps it to flourish and remain unresolved. This is the case with MATD. I am sure that WOS and his followers truly believe that their rejection of the presence of corruption is benefiting MATD, in which case I cannot criticise their motivations. In reality however it is preventing the issue from being broadly exposed and therefore being dealt with. Efforts to broadcast the corruption besetting MATD can only be beneficial in a culture where corruption flourishes if not exposed.
Nice try WOS I have given you the source, now it’s up to you and your naysayer cohort. I am not in the game of spoon feeding. If you don’t wish to follow up so be it. I couldn’t give a fig for your investment here. It is mine I am trying to protect and it will not be achieved through pretending all is well when clearly it is not!
WOS, It is your failure to engage with the source of the information that is exposed. Why not do so? What do you fear? Maybe hearing the truth? As I have said, if she proves me wrong I am more than happy to accept it. The problem seems to be your hiding from the truth. Readers of this bb will make their own minds up. If they are content to blindly soak up your diatribes and pass up an opportunity to confirm the true position here then so be it. One can lead a horse to water …..
WOS I have given you the source. If you are afraid to engage because of what you might learn so be it. If you engage and are told that I am wrong then I will eat humble pie. It seems to me that you want to avoid asking the question. If so there is little more that I can do. Continue to peddle your “opinions” irrespective of how ignorant they may be. The choice is yours.
WOS it is pointless me trying to answer your questions as you will simply come up with attempts to undermine what I have to say. Therefore I suggest that you address your question to the Vice Minister of Justice. She is the source of the information and NOT Bowley as you keep suggesting. If you want to challenge her then be my guest.
WOS, it is very easy to discredit those whose predictions are wrong (Bowley) . This being the case you should look very closely in the mirror. I don’t recall many of your predictions being borne out and I am sure you wouldn’t wish to be considered a hypocrite by those reading this bb!
WOS. This project WILL come good. There is no dispute over this. The only question is who will be the beneficiaries and will PIs derive benefit. If the corruption against MATD is not addressed (see Dozzawba post) then PIs will be the losers. The Government and country will still derive expected benefits but in place of (mainly non-Mongolian) PIs will be those looking through corruption to gain an interest. This will be a win-win for Mongolia. Your and other investor efforts will be best served highlighting the corruption to a point where the govt must take action (as with the removal of the UB Mayor) in the absence of this we (PIs) will all lose out.
Dozzawba, thanks for the response. This is a difficult market where even the most seasoned and sophisticated can fall victim to corruption, sometimes originating at the most senior levels. To succeed in securing a positive outcome for PIs will require concerted and persistent efforts on the part of the British Embassy. My worry is that the policy of support for British Interests in the O&G sector can easily be interpreted (wrongly in my view given the circumstances) as requiring only minimal engagement by the Embassy. I fear that this may be the line being taken and as such resolution of this matter may not figure as highly in U.K. interests as the development of closer relationships with the Gov of Mongolia and in non O&G sectors. This will leave MATD severely exposed and potentially inadequately supported. I agree with you that ultimately this project will come good and have said so a number of times on this forum. The potential problem I see however is that PIs may well become marginalised if as has happened in many cases before in Mongolia, malevolent forces ( those you mention raised by the Deputy Justice Minister) rest control of the business or at least demand interest in the business as a condition of it moving forward. This may seem fanciful, but is common practice in Mongolia. If this is allowed to happen then PIs will undoubtedly miss out on the bounty that MATD success promises. Persistent pressure needs to be applied on the Embassy to secure a resolution and here in the UK, through contact with politicians and interests who expect the utmost support to be offered to British interests overseas.
Thornogson, there certainly is much more to this than meets the eye. Corrupt practices are at play. If you doubt that this is the case write to Mike Buck and ask him to deny that he has been/is faced with corrupt practices holding up this project. I think you will be surprised by the answer if indeed you get one.
Thornogson: regrettably there is a catalogue of businesses that have been “stolen “ from foreign companies. This has failed to sufficiently dent the investment market. Don’t fall into the trap of thinking MATD is any different. I know that there are others on this board who can give you a representative list of corruptly acquired business interests. With the prize of an interest in the o&g market many will go to any lengths to become involved irrespective of the consequences. You only have to look at how many past Mongolian Presidents have either been incarcerated for alleged corruption or have fled the country to avoid being brought before the courts. This is the tip of the iceberg.