Member Info for Looed

Hi DomFok - no you might be right on the talks. Even though there has been lots of recent bashing from both both sides the focus is on wages, the interpretation of the Award etc. Zaza hasn't come out and said the Minister is lying about the 'technical talks', rather they want the Govt to make talks constructive and not focus on these fabrications / side issues. Its the statements in the press he complains about, so it is possible there is behind the scenes stuff going on.

Jonathansxx - yes thats a valid argument. Just strange he came out out and gave such a specific timeline (and he did it more than once) which in theory would be easy for the press to pull him up on. Perhaps knowing how soft the press is meant he knew there would be little chance of follow-up.

Hopefully we get more FRR focused interviews soon.

Hi DomFok / Arsenal221

On 2nd July the Minister seems to call for talks -

"In addition, the Minister of Economy once again called on the company Frontera for the dialogue mentioned in the letter mentioned by Congressman Malin and said that he was convinced that dialogue could solve all problems."

DomFoks quote comes from an article of 6th Aug which also includes the following -

"Natia Turnava once again called on them to fulfil their obligations, as there are no circumstances hindering their activities today."

FRR release a press statement on 10th Aug. On the face of it, it seems pretty damming -

"The American company calls on the Georgian government to stop propaganda of disinformation and to respect the decision of the arbitral tribunal. The company is responding to an August 6 statement by Natia Turnava, the Minister of Economy, according to which 84 former employees of Frontera Resource will receive GEL 1,200 in one-time assistance from the state."

And -

"Instead of having a direct relationship with the company, as befits a constructive partnership, members of the government again chose to make a public statement on a fabricated issue, the obvious reason for which was pre-election advertising. The public should be aware that the government has not even attempted to work with our company to find out or clarify facts about our employees. In return, they again made a false public statement on August 6."

And -

"We once again appeal to the Prime Minister and his government to stop this deliberate, deceptive, damaging and insincere propaganda campaign. Instead, we urge you to sincerely address people and work directly and in good faith with our company to pave the way for a true partnership. We believe that we can create a positive example of American private sector investment in Georgia. We respectfully urge the government to adhere to the arbitral tribunal's decision, to respect the terms of the contract, to meet with us constructively and to guarantee that we will continue to work without threats, intimidation or new terms."

The statement uses the wages saga in a similar way to the Govt - a way to dredge up all the other issues. It might be a stretch but the statement doesn't specify that talks on the other 'technical issues' are not on-going.

By the way, this is what he said regarding the release of the Award on 27/07 -

"It will take us about a couple of weeks to go through these legal nuances with some stakeholders and then we will be able to make it public if there is consent from the other party, which by the way we are ready for today. We say and call now, live, to meet and make a joint statement about the decision, but we are refused."

So the 'deadline' of 10th Aug has well and truly come and gone

Hi Arsenal221 - I don't think he mentions FRR. I think the Russian site has used this attack by Trump on Gov Cuomo to throw in an attack on FRR. Its quite a twist of logic to connect the two, and you have to wonder why they again feel the need to regurgitate these old arguments - is this the best they can do?

The article doesn't post the tweet so its hard to know when (or if!) it was tweeted. I am not on Twitter but maybe others can search and see if they can find it. Would be interesting indeed if my assumption is wrong, and FRR is actually name-checked in the tweet.

US President Donald Trump explained why the United States is forced to buy Russian oil. Speaking to supporters in New Hampshire, the head of the White House complained about Democrats who oppose the construction of pipelines in the United States.

“New England has the highest energy prices in the United States. Do you know why? Because Governor Cuomo is not allowing the pipeline to go through the top of New York so that oil and gas, which we have a lot, can get there. " Andrew Cuomo is the Governor of New York State.

Addressing his supporters, Trump asked if they knew from whom they were buying energy. “Didn't you know? Many ships come to you, most of them from Russia, because Governor Cuomo from New York does not allow the pipeline to be built, ”Donald Trump complained.

Trump posted the full transcript of his speech on his Twitter page.

The American company Frontera Resources began geological exploration in Georgia two decades ago. Experts tried to find oil on the territory of the country for Georgia to gain independence. And veteran Georgian geologists noted that there is no point in looking for oil where it cannot be.

We will remind, Donald Trump has officially agreed to run for president of the United States from the Republican Party.

https://yandex.ru/turbo/s/argumenti.ru/world/2020/08/684531?utm_source=yxnews&utm_medium=desktop

A Russian take-down of US involvement in the upcoming elections. I only post this part as it references FRR -

(As some experts in the Georgian domestic political cuisine note, no previous election campaign was distinguished by such unprecedented involvement of Washington and Brussels as this year's parliamentary campaign. Activists of opposition parties and groups interpret this circumstance as a direct allusion to the “Georgian Dream” and its leader to cede power, and try to convince the public of the inevitability of this scenario, which is fraught with another surge of internal political instability.

As you know, in recent months, the "friends of Georgia" from the Congress have not weakened their pressure on a wide range of issues, issuing instructions to release "political prisoners" up to dissatisfaction with the "persecution" of the Frontera Resources Corporation by the Georgian authorities, as opposed to the decision of the International Arbitration Court. Trying to disavow criticism, Prime Minister Giorgi Gakharia accuses some politicians (obviously, first of all, from the camp of the United National Movement and European Georgia) of striving to involve "Western partners" in internal political processes, which, in his opinion, does not go Good for Georgia. Promising to ensure "fair elections", he swears loyalty to the Euro-Atlantic foreign policy, and nothing in the activities of "dreamers" in this direction does not induce doubts in the sincerity of these assurances"

https://vpoanalytics.com/2020/08/28/kak-ssha-vedut-podgotovku-k-parlamentskim-vyboram-v-gruzii/?utm_source=politobzor.net

This is from the Internet magazine "Military-Political Analytics". I can't find anything about it but the fact its Russian based is likely all we need to know.

Caveman - this is the site I got the documents from which los has more info on monies spent

https://projects.propublica.org/represent/lobbying/r/300927606

Pity MadP - has no qualms in chucking all manner of nonsensical rubbish out there but positively bristles when said nonsense is called out. So, another day another cherry-picked attempt at a smear. I'll bite this time as its too easy

My post, also from 22/08/20, posted - as you well know - soon after the one you cherrypicked :

"Thanks Ivy. Your find is a lot more detailed and I didnt connect PPP with payroll. Combining the info I could with yours this initial loan is for 8 weeks. Providing they keep the staff I assume they continue to receive the bailout. Not sure if the US has put any end date to this type of package. Does anyone know who the 12 are or what they might be doing?"

From my post of 15/08/20 :

I found the official "Income Reports", filed by Cornerstone, that show the income was received this year. US$80K in Q1 and US$80K in Q2 (up from US$50K per Q in 2019).

Q1 - https://disclosurespreview.house.gov/ld/ldxmlrelease/2020/Q1/301173002.xml
Q2 - https://disclosurespreview.house.gov/ld/ldxmlrelease/2020/Q2/301192703.xml

I did contact Cornerstone to ask if the public record was correct. No reply so far - and likely little chance of any sort of reply - but I will keep pushing these groups to try and see if we can find anything out. Thats a lot of cash coming from somewhere."

The client is FRR as clearly stated in the documents, therefore the money is spent on FRR.

Ok let's see what you can twist up today. I actually utilise my time to discover useful info on matters related to FRR.

The Kremlin-funded party has just been disqualified from the election - (video in Georgian)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDLXOuAv83I&list=PLpUZOWMIm4rczABuv8WokMserehYMFgMo

USAID continues to increase its influence itself in the Georgian economy -

Turnava: "USAID support for Georgian economy to increase"

"USAID began operating in Georgia in 1992. For 27 years, the agency has provided over $1.8 billion in assistance to the country. The U.S. Government dedicates approximately $40 million annually to 50 wide-reaching programs that support Georgia’s democratic, free-market, Western orientation. The USAID Country Development Cooperation Strategy 2020-2025 (CDCS) for Georgia emphasizes on establishing a strategic partnership with the country on its Journey to Self-Reliance (J2SR) while advancing Euro-Atlantic integration and strengthening resilience to malign influence. The three main development objectives of the strategy are: 1) to strengthen the resilience to external malign influence, 2) to consolidate fragile democratic gains through citizen responsive governance, and 3) to provide inclusive high-value employment opportunities through increased economic growth."

https://caucasuswatch.de/news/3025.html

I asked the translator about the show that hosted Zaza. He told me the show is a political talk show and the topic of the day was the upcoming election and the US perspective. Zaza was the obvious choice given his role at FRR, the situation with FRR, and his knowledge of Georgia and the US political landscape. The first part of the translation actually lays out everything that follows -

"International context before the election. The government of Georgia has practically got a stopwatch from the West. Bidzina Ivanishvili is already called the Russian oligarch who is trying to destabilize Georgia. He is accused of undermining democracy. There are certain conditions. What is it like to go to the polls for the government when there is too much observation, attention and criticism from the West"

None of the criticisms made by Zaza are new. The difference is that at the start he was a lone voice. He then picked up some senators and congressmen, and now has the support of the Executive branch of the US govt. His political stock has never been higher - the imposition of sanctions might depend in part in how this guy is treated. You could argue that in the short term, Zaza is more of a danger to the actors within the GD than the opposition. That might explain why the US are behind him rather than openly supporting the opposition.

While it does seem weird that he didn't talk about the FRR, he did elevate the issue to talk - briefly - about issues affecting American companies in general.

The translator had already told us these shows are mostly scripted so he would have known the talking points that needed to be delivered. If talks are going on behind the scenes then he might have made it clear that he wouldn't discuss anything specific to FRR.

Quick point on finances - FRR has spent a minimum of US$160K this year on lobbying, so cash is coming from somewhere.

Kookier - agree with you about our translator. We are lucky in terms of price and quality. A great match for us.

Morning all. Yes indeed what to make of this!

On the one hand it's a rinse and repeat of previous talking points.

It's hard to know where Zaza ends and US foreign policy objectives begin it's all so intertwined now.

Pretty amazing to confirm on opposition TV that the GD will likely prevail at the elections. Perhaps the polling shows they win but need to share power (the US ambassador recently called for "greater representation" in parliament).

Our hearts may want an opposition win, but would we care so much is the GD met US / Zaza demands and a deal was done?

So the changes within the current regime policy continues as the best option for US and Zaza. Safer than a 30-party coalition in an already volitile area?

It's like hes saying even if you win, I can still make sure you lose.

Pt.10 (and final part)

J1 - And in what cases can this happen, in your opinion?

Zaza - This can happen in different ways. There is talk of corruption, dishonest relations with American companies, human rights, elections, and so on. All of these issues are listed, which will not take too much thought for a person who reads it to understand that too many paragraphs from there can reach many current and former members of the government today so as to get on the sanctions list.

J1 - And it may happen that Ivanishvili may win the elections, use all means, but in the end it may turn out that all was in vain.

Zaza - Of course. Unfortunately, everything is developing in such a way that there is a great chance of it. That is what we have been saying before, it must be radically changed, and for the better, for democracy. One of the bills mentions that oligarchic rule must end in the country. Oligarchic rule is not an acceptable form for the civilized world. Oligarchic rule means impoverishing the people, leaving them unemployed and destroying the country. Therefore, neither the civilized world nor the United States can tolerate this, and if the Georgian Dream government does not start to rectify this, we will undoubtedly see our compatriots sanctioned by the United States.

J1 - Thank you for participating in the program. Our time has run out. Zaza Mamulaishvili was our guest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb4J3zADSCk

Pt.9

Zaza - Of course. This is the strategy of Georgian Dream. They are telling us the different truth. At the same time, the last high-ranking official visit was when the Speaker of Parliament and Foreign Minister, Zalkanian, were in Washington at the end of the year if I am not mistaken. The only positive agenda they had, which the Georgian government was talking about, is that Georgian soldiers are fighting in Afghanistan in support of the Americans. Georgia has no other positive context on the American agenda. This is a complete collapse in terms of foreign policy towards the United States, which is reflected in a bad investment climate, which is reflected in less capital inflows into the country, less wealth creation for Georgia, and less income for the Georgian people.

J1 - Finally I want to ask you about sanctions. This topic is like a Damocles sword hanging over Ivanishvili`s head. The example of Moldova is very often recalled when Plakhatnyuk suddenly found himself under sanctions. Now the news of Belarus is unfolding before our eyes. In principle, Lukashenko's sanctions are not surprising, and for him it is a natural disaster. Is the EU now working on sanctions against Lukashenko? Regarding Ivanishvili, how realistic is it for him to find himself under sanctions? Is this constantly talked about in the US Senate, in Congress? Is this real either before the election or after the election? In principle, there is already a sanction for Georgia, when 15% of its aid was frozen on some conditions, right?

Zaza - At present, depending on the legislation passed by the Congress and the Senate, and the relationship between the United States and the Georgian Dream government, there are all preconditions for such sanctions to be applied to a member of the current or former government. It is difficult to say when it will be, in what form and on what scale.

J1 - Is it easy for the ruler of a partner country, even for a shadow ruler, to impose sanctions?

Zaza - Doing so is not easy for a non-partner country as well, but it is an extreme measure.

J1 - It is easier to impose for a non-partner rather than for the ruler of a partner country. This is what I mean. So, America should always separate Ivanishvili and Georgia, which is not easy, right?

Zaza - By the way, this was done with the bill that was initiated at the beginning of the year and there is precisely defined.
Yes, they are separated, but it is still difficult, if Ivanishvili stays in power again and his power is extended, will it be easy to separate? Could personal sanctions be such as to have a cooling effect on Ivanishvili?

Zaza - That's what it's all about. The bill that was initiated, and which is bipartisan today, considers not the imposition of sanctions on Georgia, but personally. It says very clearly - it will be members of the current or former government who will be included in the list of these sanctions.

Pt.8

J1 - I do not like to spread rumours, but I have to say what information I have. For example, the Georgian Dream government thinks that if the Democrats win the presidential election, they will have no chance and Ivanishvili may be more reluctant to go, so they are a little disappointed that our election is a little earlier than their presidential election. And, if Trump wins again and the Republicans, they have some chance of survival. I do not know why they have this misconception. Does it matter if the Democrats win this election or the Republicans for the formation of relations with Georgia? In general, the Democrats were more active in dealing with Georgia in the past. They were more aggressive towards Russia with their sharp statements and positions and their attention was more towards us. What does the US election results mean for Ivanishvili's government? Because for Georgia, both administrations are friends.

Zaza - I think that if anyone in the Georgian Dream has such an opinion, it is a very infantile opinion.

J1 - It’s hard not to agree, though that makes sense there.

Zaza - It does not work that way in Washington, nor will it work in the future. By the way, whatever documents we were talking about today were always considered in a bipartisan context in the committees, and in the end even more Democrats voted in favor of this document during the voting than the Republicans. The context here is one.

J1 - In other words, everything that was prepared against Ivanishvili is, in fact, bipartisan.
Zaza - Of course. Let no one think that it started now, 1 month ago or 6 months ago. The phrase "Ivanishvili is destabilizing the country for the good of Russia" first occurred in 2016 in the Congress building. In 2016, before this announcement, several years of very hard work was done by U.S. politicians before they officially announced all of this.

J1 - So, today is everything official and it`s not the statement of just one congressman as we are here often told about.

Pt.7

J1 - Let’s also talk about how the formation takes place in Washington, which is a really good place for lobbyists and they work successfully too often. It is a common story that political groups, government officials have lobbyists and they work, however, as you said, Ivanishvili's lobbyists are working in vain at this stage. How are attitudes formed towards countries or specific governments? By the way, there was a myth that reigned in the elite of the Georgian Dream that "America does not have time for us" and until recently the US did not react sharply to certain issues in Georgia, even against democracy. Didn't it all happen suddenly? This has been happening in recent years. In short, where did the myth that "America does not have time for us" come from? How is opinion formed and then what is the system of actions?

Zaza - This story was created and inspired by the Georgian Dream. America has always had time for, it has time for us now and will definitely have in the future as well. Georgia will always be a priority and Georgia will always be very high on that list.
Although the government of the Georgian Dream has managed and achieved so much that there was an amendment for the first time in the history of relations between the two countries, according to which we, a country that has always been very high on the list of priorities, are now with Colombia, Pakistan and similar countries.

J1 -Can we lose the superior quality of a strategic partner with America that we have had so far and for which we have worked for years?

Zaza - Unfortunately, we have already lost. But the United States is well aware that Georgia has not lost, it has lost the government of the Georgian Dream. Our government has made us lose our positions, but they will regain that position, of course, if they take appropriate steps in different directions - be it elections, investments, human rights, the judiciary, which the whole world knows the Ivanishvili government uses as a weapon. If the Georgian Dream changes all this, of course this relationship will improve.

Pt.6

Zaza - The only way out now is for the Georgian Dream government. I will say why it is important to correct this situation first. Correction is important because in today's ruined economy, when companies go bankrupt every day, people lose their jobs every day, people have no income and we all know what the population is like today. The only way out of this is to bring capital into the country, money has to come in, investment has to come in. When the US addresses the Georgian government with such communication and the Georgian Dream government does nothing to remedy the situation, trust me, no investment will flow, no capital will flow, no new businesses will open and people will have no income. Georgia does not have the means to finance this activity with its own money. Therefore, we need good relations with the US like air to bring as much good as possible to the country. This will not happen now if you have such a relationship with the US Legislature, Executive ...

J1 - Is there a chance to fix this? What should Ivanishvili do? How can he get rid of the reputation of the Russian oligarch, which destabilizes Georgia?

Zaza - There is a chance of that, but every 1000 km distance starts from the first step. Therefore, the first step should be that the elections should be held in a democratic and free environment, so that the informed voter, not bought with onions and potatoes and other funds, can make the right choice for his future. Therefore, the government must ensure the creation of such a free environment.

J1 - Suppose the elections were held perfectly by the Georgian Dream. Absolutely none of the rules were broken and he won. Could a congressman who thinks Ivanishvili is a Russian oligarch and a friend of America's enemies continue to have a normal relationship with him? Is such a thing happening?

Zaza - The first step will be to hold elections democratically, which does not suit Russia well, in a model of destabilizing the country. Because this is not a Russian model. If you take this first positive step, the second positive step should be to create a good environment for American investment, it will lead to the creation of many jobs, many people will be employed ...

J1 - Does this government have the resources to do that? Tell us your opinion directly.

Zaza - I honestly doubt it. They have neither the resources nor the desire to do what is important. Even if you hire 25 expensive lobbyists in the US, if you do not have the truth, this truth can not be delivered anywhere. The Georgian Dream government has no truth today. This is the biggest problem and I think it will be very difficult to do it in 2 months.

Pt.5

J1 - This situation has gone quite deep. For example, in the 2021 Foreign Operations Financing Bill 15% aid has been frozen to Georgia. There is no such precedent for Georgia to temporarily freeze some of the aid. I would like to reiterate that within 180 days, this Defense Act was adopted on August 5, the Secretary of State must submit a report to the congressional committees. Let’s list what should be in this report? Is the Georgian government taking effective steps to strengthen democratic institutions in Georgia? Is the Georgian government implementing electoral reform effectively? Does it respect the independence of the judiciary, including independence from legislative and executive interference? Does it effectively implement the necessary policies to ensure transparency and accountability, including in terms of unhindered access to public information? Does it protect the rights of civil society, opposition parties and the media, as well as any other issues that the Secretary of State deems appropriate? Do we know what this means in the language of international relations and diplomacy? When you have such a case and when you know that in 180 days Pompeo has to submit this report to the congressmen and in the upcoming elections there might be some cases of fraud, like it was on the previous elections. In the previous elections, we had videos on one of the channels where the ballot papers were thrown directly into the ballot box, but somehow all this went well. The presidential election was not such a strategic election. Everyone knew that this would not change the government. Today, when Ivanishvili's government should remain in power for a third term or should be changed, it is the task of all those who support democracy in Georgia to change the government in Georgia after the second term. Will the Georgian government, which is under such surveillance, be able to hold these elections peacefully under these conditions?

Zaza - He will be able to do that if it is his will. Will be able to if he wishes. First of all, all this means, by the way, this bill was passed by 295 votes in the House of Representatives, which is unprecedented and a very large part of the politicians who voted are Democrats. So it wasn’t just Republicans. It`s bipartisan decision with huge support.

J1 - The letters which were sent to Georgia are bipartisan as well.

Pt.4

J1 - Insulting? What do you mean that they are illegally criticizing the Georgian government?

Zaza - Basically, they have chosen the topic that if any congressman or senator is critical towards the Georgian Dream government, in the opinion of Georgian Dream they are either misinformed or lobbyists of “Frontera”.

J1 - And, so it turns out that you are the most powerful person in the world because the whole congress, senate and white house is working for you. (laughing). I am happy that you are our guest. If I need the letter, will you help me to get it from Congress? This was joke of course. Let`s continue our discussion. What are these lobbyist groups trying to achive? To convince Washington that there are no threats to democracy here, no political prisoners, and in what direction are they working according to your information?

Zaza - The Georgian government has chosen an anti-American and anti-Western direction. This political vector is inclined towards Russia, so in order to justify, on the one hand, they are engaged in anti-American and anti-Western actions, but they try to pretend as if this is not the case. To justify this, they need someone to embellish the picture, and that is why they have hired American lobbyists to send messages to the US government and lawmakers, to the executive branch, to reassure American politicians that Georgia is in favor of strategic cooperation with them and has nothing to do with Russia. In fact it is completely different and as time goes by ...

J1 - What is the reality?

Zaza - The reality is that…

J1 - Ivanishvili and perhaps no one in the government does not want to sever ties with the United States, at least because America is helping Georgia financially among them and I think it is be very important for the country with our economy. It seems that the Georgian government does not want to cut ties with the United States. At least, because he can not oppose the choice of the Georgian people so openly.

Zaza - That's what it's all about. Any poll ...

J1 - Do they know this in America?

Zaza - They know it in America and Georgia as well. That’s why they can’t do it so directly. They do it secretly. You need this America because there is so much help coming from there. And, the aid received from the United States to date exceeds 5 billion. Therefore, they need it. On the other hand, how do you imagine this is a strategic relationship when American NGOs are publicly cursed and fought. When American politicians publish insulting articles in the Georgian or foreign press. It is a very bad investment environment for American companies and they are being persecuted and harassed from the country. And all letters received from the United States were left unanswered. With only 1-2 exceptions, to which they answered with another lie. So it does not fit into a strategic relationship. Everyone sees this well, both in Washington and in the rest of the world.

Pt.3

J1 - Anyway, since December, there has been one-way communication with letters sent by congressmen to Gakharia.

Zaza - Very actively. Quite actively and in the history of modern Georgia, Giorgi Gakharia will be the second Prime Minister who did not go to the United States to deepen relations. Against this background, we have witnessed numerous letters sent to the Georgian Dream government from the Congress, the House of Representatives, the Senate. As you mentioned, for the first time in the history of Georgia, even Pompeo was sent a very critical letter by congressmen and senators in relation to Georgia, stating that Ivanishvili's government is cooperating with rivals and enemies of the United States and doing so at the expense of US political and commercial interests. Such a thing has never happened before and it is very disturbing.

J1 - These words and phrases sound like a judgment. Is it possible for the US to continue its relations with the Georgian leader? Ivanishvili is the informal leader of Georgia today. Georgia is very precious to America. He is our friend and we always stand by him, but because Ivanishvili is the de facto ruler of Georgia, can he continue to have a relationship with him after these phrases, which is really like a sentence? Ivanishvili is cooperating with America's enemies.

Zaza - After these phrases and letters, a very interesting thing happened. The Georgian government has intensified its lobbying activities. New lobbyists were added to his lobbyists. It is worth noting here that only Georgia and Saudi Arabia pay the highest price to lobbyists in Washington.

J1 - What price do they pay for it? It`s public information, as I know. Could you please give as the data?

Zaza - This is public information. $ 75,000 is a monthly fee, plus additional costs. These are the expenses of only 1 company.

J1 - How many companies does the Georgian government have today, Ivanishvili personally, hired in Washington?

Zaza - They use up to 5 companies. They work in different directions. Kay Street is in Washington, where all these lobbying companies are located and they talk about Georgia with a smile because you have to be very bad at something, in order to hire so many lobbyists and pay so much money. That does not happen in practice, no one else does that.

J1 - Roughly speaking, they spend about $ 300,000 a month on these lobbyists.

Zaza - Roughly speaking there will definitely be so much money. Plus, it's very important, for example, that several political leaders of the Georgian Dream government had previously published insulting articles in the Hills newspaper towards congressmen and various people, and in such a short period of time that it cost more than $ 100,000 to publish just one commissioned article.