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Pt.2

J1 (contd) By the way, I may b subjective but Scythians had not wiped out the Kingdom of Colchis, we would not have been in such passive situation. In addition to this, the Russians have cut our wings. We are facing too many challenges nowadays. Based on what resources and intellectual potential we have, we live quite poorly. How do you imagine this will change?

ZM -Thank you very much. I am very glad to have the opportunity to talk to you. Of course, it is Georgia and Abkhazia is our part. It's an incurable pain, but we must have the courage to admit that it's because of us that it's so. You mentioned Israel and its Prime Minister. The Prime Minister of Israel called Mr. Burla 17 times. Burla is the director of Astrazeneka. 17 times and on all 17 of these calls Israeli Minister of Health was also presented. In the result, they were the first to vaccinate their citizens in large numbers. This is very interesting statistics. After Israeli tehre were USA, Saudi Arabia and other countries who have more money than they have. But looks like the money is not the issue in this case. You need to have more than just money. When you are struggling, you have problem in economy, thousands of children are starving, you need to do something to make things right and save the country. People have nowhere to look for food and jobs and have no income. In such conditions, why should our compatriot living in Abkhazia want to come and join us? But if all this changes, of course, reunification will not take long. A wonderful example of this is Germany. Therefore, everything depends on us.

J1 - Zaza, let me tell you this. It is good that you recalled the example of Germany. I remember very well that evening when it suddenly opened. People were fleeing from East Berlin. I recalled the case when Kobakhidze was talking about Nika Melia. He was acusing him of bankruption of Kartu Bank. This is a lie becasse by that time Nika Melia was the director of Enforcement Bureau and it was his direct responsibilities. Do you know why I am telling you this? Nika Melia's father, I know, opened the clinic and made a humanitarian gesture to treat patients from Abkhazia on the spot. The doctors do not go there for work and they are right. This is job should be done by the country. Let us speak the truth. Healthcare is deformed and has been so for 20 years. I do not know, you probably know, the average salary in hospitals is 600-700 GEL. We don’t have enough qualified doctors. Because we talk about Abkhazia, if there is emergency situation, we take the doctors from Tbilisi. There are not so many Georgians and Abkhazians living in Gali. Only those people who don’t have enough money come here. Yes, we say that it costs us 5 million to treat the patients from Abkhazia but we don’t have enough qualified doctors to provide the services. We cant operate like this. It`s a serious problem. We should fascinate Abkhazians.

Pt.1 (quite the ramble this one!)

J1 - Frontera's representation in Georgia covers a very long and multi-year period. Their activities and goal were to find, process and sell oil and gas. Anyway, you will probably remember that Mr. Zaza was our guest 1-2 years ago. The only thing I remembered, Mr. Zaza, is that you have an amazing knowledge of geopolitics, the Georgian economy, and most importantly, you have seen the world through the Georgian eye. Finding our place is key in this world. This is the most important thing today: who we are and what we should be like. Thanks for visiting. One thing I want to ask you. I was in the bank now, I was standing in line and I saw by chance this very good illustrated book, it is a masterpiece, many and many pictures are given here. As you probably know, today is March 16, if you remember, a very grand attack was carried out by the North Caucasus separatists and about 100 local Georgians were defending the area. About 100 Georgians and 500 to 600 North Caucasians were killed. It was a truly glorious battle. This was now celebrated on Heroes' Square. The symbol of our attitude and our perseverance is the battle of March. These morons thought that they could take Sokhumi, but they could not take it. Abkhazia is really ours, Zaza. Nobody can take it away from us. The genetic code lies in the locals and in all Georgians that what is ours should be ours. We need to be careful and take care of it. We have useless government. It was piece of cake handling the COVID-19. Here, the Prime Minister took every effort to find the vaccine for his country. By December 25, they have vaccinated more than 1 million citizens. Our government is useless. They could have used the resources of Frontera as well. We have lost many opportunities. We are the same generation, Mr. Zaza, and I remember that there were talks in 1988-1989 that Switzerland will be like Georgia, if they are independent. By the way, this was written by foreigners. We are not moving forward at all. You are the director of an American firm and you know very well the American rules of American business and the local bureaucracy. We need to help the country and talk about these issues. There are no country-loving people in power. Random types sit in different rings in power. Nepotism has divided the country. It should not be like this. It seems that we are very educated nation, because we have up to 450 000 citizens with higher education. This is huge number. Poland would be really jealous. In Poland, higher education was generally discouraged. We have so many educated and professional people and there is stagnation, Zaza. I am glad that you are my guest. I am sorry, I have been talking for 7 minutes. It`s terrifying and stunning what is written here. This country is ours.I was in tears when I saw Likhni Church. I was there in 1989, there were Georgian texts all over the place. This is part of Georgian civilization.

There is a lot of chatter about Green in Georgia. This is from an article posted yesterday -

"First, let’s deal with energy independence. Annual energy consumption in Georgia amounts to around 60 billion kWh, and more than 80% of the country’s energy is imported, mostly from Azerbaijan and Russia. It cannot make up the shortfall between imported electricity and imported fossil fuels and domestic production via hydropower. Which means that even if we completely cement over all of Georgia’s rivers, the country will still not be able to achieve energy independence without our own oil and gas." and the article then goes on to discuss alternatives to the hydro project that is a source for contention. https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/odr/why-hydroelectric-power-not-solution-georgia/

I can't recall who posted the original info (bugsy-b, welloiled?) but I believe ZM has his own Frontera company(s) in Georgia? If so we need to be clear it's 'our' Frontera he is talking about and not his own operation.

Even though the USA-side and even ZM himself have confirmed he is gone he is somehow still around. This is what ZM said around 15th Feb -

"Restructuring is underway now. I am the largest stockholder and largest creditor of Frontera resources, but I am no longer involved in the day-to-day management of Frontera. There are several thousand stockholders in total. All this does not affect the work processes in any way, it happens outside Georgia. Some companies are added, some are reduced, some are liquidated and merged. This group included too many companies. Nothing changes in Georgia, Frontera has an agreement with the state and the processes develop as before. In some parts I am no longer connected with the company but in some parts I have stayed. The work continues on a 24-hour basis where the company has been extracting oil for the past 23 years.
In the future, we are trying to expand and add a new direction in the field of "green energy". It is a project of about 150 million and we will make an application in 2-3 months, ” Zaza Mamulashvili explained."

One month later he is referred to as "director and head of Company "Frontera" in Georgia".

If his timeline is correct (and no guarantee it is) then shortly would now seem to mean 1-2 months

As he seems to be popping up on a more regular basis we should be able to clarify these points soon.

Pt.6 (and final part)

J1 - I do not know what you mean by smart behavior. Few people think sensibly and rationally, but government policy should be like that. I am glad that you talked about these issues. Let`s think about this, people. A truly strategic ally for us is America. A very large resource is spent from them with us. I think it is about 4 to 8 billion and let's spend these funds wisely and make such breakthroughs in the economy that will employ people and most importantly give us income. You were right then. The whole of Japan was then living through Toyota. 7 or 8 million have been sold since the late 70s. This is a colossal number. There should be some brands from Georgia, which can be exported. We need to think about this as well. Tourism is very interesting for us. If we invest in Tourism and we feed them with our own products, it will be a great income for us. We are not even 4 million and if we serve 9-10 million, this can be great profit for us.

ZM - But in order to make these things happen, we need our government to be involved in this process. At first I thought that this was government`s prerogative, then I thougth about opposition in the same way, but finally I came to the opinion that the people should force state and opposition to make everything happen.

J1 - Zaza, this reminded me Bismark. He gave huge salaries to the teachers who raised the great generations for their country. Perhaps this is the thing which should be done by the government. A great deal of funding should be invested in education. Educated people will outweigh these bureaucrats and nepotists. I am really glad that you are our guest but unfortunately we exceeded the time limit. We are geopolitically important country. Especially now, after the Karabakh and other events, we will become highly valued and America will definitely look after us if it has a guarantee that there will be democracy here and maybe this is how our future will go. Thanks for this conversation. I am really glad that you, the Americans, are optimistic about these events. You are literally already an American, right? The existence of your firm should also be an example of the persistent struggle. Thanks for this conversation. Zaza Mamulaishvili was our guest, director and head of Company "Frontera" in Georgia. We ran out of time and were not able to talk about this case. You started very good topic. How did Azerbaijan manage this? Ilham started and finished it. He purchased about 7 or 8 billions dollars worth weapons and finally managed dto retrieve more than half of the territories. Our country needs to be taken care of and we hope that someone will look after it. Good bye.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L48SULxTEZo

Pt.5

ZM - Mr. Davit, last week the United States Congress approved a $ 2 trillion aid package for Covid and is still preparing an aid package. There has never been invested such amount of capital in economy. No one should think that this will only have an impact in America. It will affect us directly. On the one hand, this is reflected in the fact that exchange rate will dramatically change. But against the background of all this, Georgia has the best chance, as a friend and partner of the United States, to attract a large part of this capital to Georgia. Attracting for us means that this money will create jobs here, employ people, raise wages and income, start a better life in the country. So what needs to be done as soon as possible is that part of the politicians should go and work on this issue with those people to ensure that they bring that money into the country. Otherwise, if we do not do it, other countries will do it. Now the prime minister of Israel does not have to bother himself to find the vaccine, but I am sure he will call the people there to earn capital and money. We must do the same.

J1 - Who will do that, Zaza? The government has been sitting and playing dominoes for 9 years. They need to think about it. You make hints and say that this is what you should do in energy sector and so on, but a plan must be made. Garibashvili says that he has 10 yeasr plan but God knows what happens in 10 years from now. Maybe if USA provides us with the funding, they might plan the whole thing for us.

ZM - In this regard, Mr. David, I think the country has no problem, because it has a lot of talented people, very energetic, hardworking. The projects are ready too, you just need to open the doors for these people to be able to attract these funds and then not interfere with doing this business. Besides one fundamental change should take place – this or next year China will overtake the United States and become the first economy in the world. America has never had such a traumatic period before and they suffer so much from it. It will greatly change world geopolitics. In addition, in order to stimulate their economy, they have lowered their interest rates so that they can do nothing to influence the process in any way. So that we can witness, this year and next, fundamental changes in geopolitics. Therefore, we must be very smart to get the maximum benefit for the country.

Pt.4

ZM - And that's why the biggest threat we face is neither Russia nor climate change, it's us. By the way, we had a project in Moldova for years and there we encountered such a phenomenon that young people who had a little bit of some skills and education, the opportunity to leave the country, left the country. And if you need to invite a person to any specialty today, you will not be able to find qualified staff at work. When the talented man will go abroad, will settle somewhere else, will be offered a good job and paid well. He wont have an incentve to return to the home country. So what happens next? We will become an easy hatch not only for Russia and China, but also for others.

J1 - Zaza, I want to show it to the our spectators as well. Listen people, this is Pshapi, small village in Samegrelo. You will be heartbroken. Here if you have a look at the American villages, or even French of English, you will notice that we have advanced, especially in 1960-1970, when Georgia was at the level of Europe. Look here, there is no roads an something like that. Look at the fences. This was Samegrelo at the beginning of 20th century. This is really bad. Nowadays we have many graduated people but unfortunately they are leaving our country. We have problems with agronoms. Everything is problematic in villages. There is lack of development because we don’t have enough specialists.

ZM - is really good example. I would like to add that below Samegrelo – flourished county, with independent and fair court, which was in Guria, I mean in Republic of Guria (Laughing). Frankly, the whole reigon was full of achievements. Where this vanished? It is here, between us, but we need to put ourselves together.

J1 - As the matter of fact, you know what? Roosevelt did a huge favor for USA and he took the central union (Tsekavshiri) system. The same system worked in Germany. Even today, on the harvesting of the tangerines, there were mobilised the baskets in each villages with trucks. It was well organized. This must be done by the state and should help its farmers. Actually, the purchasing system was so well organized that the subsidy was given beforehand to the wheat harvesters. Something must be changed. There are no one in the government who is able to do this. Why there is the wheat problem? By June 15, Russia had raised its selling price of wheat by $ 50 and the price of bread has risen. Why cant we harvest 200-300 thousand tons for ourselves. I don’t know, Zaza, we have so many problems. Perhaps, you are right. If we have some kind of progress in energy sector, it might motivate other sectors as well.

Pt.3

J1 - We have very good generation, Zaza. Let`s send the youth abroad for 3-4 years. They will gain the knowledge in certaing fields and return as the professionals. You are well informed in the field of energy. Nothing will be done in Georgia without energy. This gas is a very important strategic unit. If we have it then we should use it. You have to accelerate the work of your lobbyists from America. I know that your business is being harassed, but the promotion of development must be strengthened by an intergovernmental document. Why should we give the shelf to Russians.

ZM - We should not give it and at the same time it should be put in such a context that every citizen of this country has an income. By the way, we are working on one of the directions now and we will make the statement about it shortly - there is a project of renewable energy and its storage in Georgia, which will be connected with the sun and wind, and the country should move gradually. The next 10, 20, 30 years will be this process. This will improve both the climate and the environment. There will be a healthier generation when these horrible emissions are not inhaled. And especially in the modern world, it no longer matters where this plant will be located. Many do not have a strategic location like Georgia. We can use all these advantages. But what is needed for this? From what I see, no time should be spent on who will respond to his opponent with a more bitter expression. No time should be wasted on this. Time must be spent on who will come up with a better plan and implement it.

J1 - Zaza, I want to comment on this. When you have Partskhaladze and the kinds of him, they will definitely stop you. It does not matter what kind of plan you present them, they will always act in their own interests. This is not that easy. It`s not hard to make a project, it`s hard to keep it. This is theft. This is the same thing which they did to you.

ZM - This is it, Mr. Davit. We do not need to sit down and think of new formulas. Such formulas already exist in Europe and America. There is also historical experience. In the United States, for example, if you start a project and it is successful, the bank will look for you and offer you cheap financing. Cheap money exists in America. 0.25% is the annual interest rate set by the National Bank. In our country if I am not mistaken it is 6%, even more, it may be 7%. Now explain to me how a Georgian entrepreneur, a Georgian businessman can produce a competitive product when they have really cheap money and we have expensive.

J1 - They have a cool promotion in Turkey. The state helps agro-complexes producing tomatoes like this - they give loans for 30-40 years. Their tomatoes are cheaper compared to us. All our agricultural products come from Turkey. Because the state helps them. How should this be planned? There should probably be a national approach to help someone who is doing something.

Pt.2

ZM - This person must be a participant in success. This is really a problem of the government. Unable to communicate with people. They do not talk to people. By the way, the same happens to the opposition. Nobody talks to people. The HPP is a good example. It turned out that they had no communication at all and there was a lot of misunderstanding. As for the contract it has been already signed and no one knew about it. The opposition has the same problem. They go to these meetings and nobody tells people anything.

J1 - I am sorry but I want to tell you my opinion about this. They really do buy the votes, right? Valeri told me very sensational news about this. The initiators of the construction of this Rioni Dam told the villagers that they must not allow the opposition to enter the village, otherwise they will not build anything. This is complete nonsence. Everything will be OK when you wont try to bribe the people and your and your people`s interests will be the same.

ZM - Yes, that's it, Mr. Davit, we should not be like them. Of course, everything has its rules and order. There is experience in the world on how to build such hydropower plants, where to build them, how to operate them. In addition to oil, gas and gold and silver, Georgia has a huge water resource. There is a lot of sun and a lot of windy places. All of this is practically before us and thus we can live luxuriously.

J1 - Zaza, it`s really good that you talked about this issue. This reminded me of the paint factory which was operating in Kutaisi. Even in capitalist countries, the Soviet Union sent Kutaisi paints. Everything was cheap in the Soviet Union and it was so effective that the effect of the paint could last over 20-25 years. This plant is not working nowadays. As for its main material which is used in the production of this paint, is right near Kutaisi. I don’t think that any one knows about this in the government. The paints which are now imported from Turkey is too far from the quality of the product which was produced in Kutaisi. Besided 20 litres of paint costs about 160-180 GEL. 20 litres is nothing. Any kind of building needs too much paint. It is very heartbreaking. How can it be not working? Kutaisi used to be center of Industry. Let`s build Kutaisi. The same goes to Zugdidi, Poti, Senaki where military bases were brought in 1942 and they were operating very effectively. Something needs to be changed. You are saying that we should introduce the bill about the fossils but no one will listen to you. We should consider which sphere is more important for us. It`s not that hard to do.

ZM - It`s not that hard to do when you have very qualified and intellectual country.

Pt.1

J1 - Those who live in Georgia should live by Georgian interests. If such a person appears, breakthroughs can be made. I liked your idea. In Kakheti you and your enterprise are blocked. Can you make any claim from Poti to Anaklia and you start extracting it? Will you be prevented from showing this initiative? There is no gas in western Georgia, SOCAR sells it expensively. When the gas crosses the Red Bridge our government adds too many taxes that in the result the gas becomes expensive. Georgia needs the gas. About 1.5 million people lives in Western Georgia and if you ask me the biggest factories should be built in Western Georgia.

ZM - Well, before I continue talking about this topic - I am very heartbroken and I want to tell the audience. I often hear from some politicians that there is no gas or oil in Georgia, which means that they don’t have insight in the topic and have no idea what they are talking about. When you hear such thing from anyone, just do not believe it. There is a lot of oil and gas in Georgia. There is a lot of gold and too much copper. But for this it is necessary for the state to approach the case rationally. By the way, Mr. Davit, we had a plan to go to Parliament with the initiative that the minerals belong to the person who owns the land. This practice is adapted in USA, not in Europe by the way. In USA, if the peron has a land and there is fossil beneath, it belongs to the land owner. Is someone has a land, he should also have an income from this land, right?

J1 - It`s very good that you mentioned this. At night, when I don’t sleep, I usually watch documentary movies. There was one documentary movie about Alaska. It appears that if someone owns the land he leases his lands to the miners and gets the percentage of extracted income. As for Georgia, what is beneath the land belongs to the state.

ZM - And it turns out that if the owner of this land will be interested in extracting that mineral (as happens in America), you will settle with this owner, and everyone will share the income earned. Here at least more or less bureaucracy prevails in this matter and it is not developed at the desired pace.

J1 - Let`s make a link between the topics. Look how weird it is, I may be exaggerating, but do you know what is capitalism? The land is your and that`s it. As soon as a person fenced a certain area and started sowing there, then the economy started to rise. That was very strange by the way, Mr. Zaza, I want to know your opinion about this. About 50,000 men came out in Kutaisi. There has never been such a large-scale action. They are landowners and they are being told that they have to leave the place once they will receive the compensation. This is nonsense. 5 million is not enough for the compensation.

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