Member Info for Hounddog10

It is my understanding that the vegetable (starch) based product does not degrade quickly in the open environment. It behaves much in the same way as conventional plastic. It needs industrial compost facilities to degrade - and then degrades quickly.

This is why starch based products do not solve the litter problem. Unfortunately this is poorly understood. People just see biodegradable and assume it biodegrades in any conditions.

The plastic problem is fundamentally one of litter. Recycling is an important but secondary issue.

There is an article today in The Times about Morrisons’ new approach to plastic film on cucumbers. For U.K. sourced cucumbers they are getting rid of the film wrapping but acknowledging it will materially reduce shelf life. Out of the U.K. growing season they import cucumbers from abroad and to keep the cucumbers in decent condition the film stays. It also stays for half cucumbers.

Morrisons have been at the forefront of trying to eliminate plastic. But the cucumbers show how difficult it is to do so.

Luke. If you are reading this you need to do something to get paid out. At the date of the first closing of the offer they had 86% acceptances. If they had got to 90% or above they would, as they are entitled to, have compulsorily purchased the remaining 10%. The date of the second closing of the offer was 29th May. It is not known what % they have got but it cannot be at 90% or above because they have now extended the offer to 3 June. As a general point it is not automatic that you will be bought out. If an acquirer does not get to 90% generally it cannot do it. You may wish to keep holding but you will be a minority shareholder in an unlisted company with no trading facility. Minority rights are very limited for Guernsey companies - for example no need to file accounts. I have learnt my own lesson on this - which is that I was quite content to wait for the second closing date only to find my PEP provider did not support sending in acceptances for that date (only the first one). Bizarrely they now support giving acceptances on the extension.

Fairly big article in business section of The Times today on companies trying to deal with plastic problem. SYM quite prominent.

The politics are complex here and there is limited understanding. There is huge confusion between recycling and litter issues as exemplified in The Times and Telegraph today. The ultra greens do not like SYM�s product because it uses oil (see Sky interview) - a Pavlovian reaction. SYM�s response is that plastic is made from an oil byproduct which would be burnt off by oil rigs anyway. The greens side towards bio plastics. (done by eg BIOME) This is plastic made from organic material eg corn starch (ie recently deceased plants as opposed to, in the case of oil, plants and animals long ago dead). They do not think through the carbon footprint and other impacts of dedicating land to plastic production rather than for food. Crucially bio plastics do not degrade much better than conventional plastic in the open environment. They need bespoke composting facilities. Put yourself in the position of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia (KSA). You are a desert, oil rich,country. Are you going to try to grow a lot of corn for plastic/import it expensively or put some additive into oil based plastic? There is plenty of mileage for SYM in the Gulf States before needing to go anywhere else.

SYM�s potential can be seen from looking at one of its competitors - Wells Plastics. It has a slightly different business model in that it manufactures while SYM licences. It is a private PE backed company. Four years ago it made �300k profit, last year �1.6m and next year indicating perhaps �2.5m. They are expanding capacity significantly. Making plastic smarter is a nascent global market and there is plenty of space for a number of firms.

I will just say again that SYM�s product is about dealing with uncollected litter - which is the problem everyone is worrying about. Recycling is a secondary issue. In fact SYM always makes the point that oxo degradable plastic can be recycled by introducing stabilisers. It is no coincidence that SYM has had most success so far in countries where generally trash collection infrastructure is weak.

The enzyme is irrelevant to SYM�s product. The enzyme is about recycling and needs plastic to be collected and processed centrally. d2w is about dealing with plastic that escapes collection ie litter.

They will take it off the market before the full year results need to be released (end June). Deliberate timing.

Explain yourself.

it is worth noting that most of the profit came through in the second half (�95k pre-tax first half v �335k in second half). SYM is not particularly seasonal so it points to hopefully a good first half 2018. One other interesting bit was that they have developed their additive to go into �some� bioplastics (their rival technology). At the moment in Europe the focus is on using bioplastics. There is, as yet, limited understanding that bioplastics do not easily degrade in the open environment (and thus behave like ordinary plastic). The central problem with plastic is litter. Composting or recycling is a secondary issue. A DRS scheme would get much plastic back to be recycled. Bioplastics can only be composted not recycled.

Many thanks Monkf6. I see it is also on YouTube. If they are at 2GW I wish they would RNS it.

Thanks Monkf6. Could you let us know where to find this video. Surely they cannot be at 2GW already.

Thanks Monkf6. Could you let us know where to find this video. Surely they cannot be at 2GW already.

A whitewash. Only addresses procedures and fails to answer why such a large loan is deemed legitimate at all. Anyway I think it is best for the company that Kailas stays.

Eddie - on GEC yes I was. I stand to be corrected but I think they are in at quite a low level and not at the Indian sub level which may be listed. I wonder what their intended exit route might be and why they went into it. It may be that they wanted a toehold in what is going on in Indian renewables. I agree the problem for everyone is at topco level. Of course Kailas could just keep his stake unlisted (if he delists) but it is not very attractive for him to do so when it looks as though the company is just about at a tipping point. I think like others the threat to delist may be associated with the loan investigation ie if you take tough action against me I will delist the company. However, as discussed he needs to take Caparo with him on that and from the outside I cannot see what is in it for them. The Mauritius intermediate company is there to ensure that the U.K. listing did not result in additional tax. It is a fairly well trodden path for Indian companies, albeit there probably is not great shareholder protection at that level. The share price is creeping up albeit in tiny volume.

Kailas may care more about not falling out with the London financial community. He is involved with some big names. It is not a show stopper reason but it may make him more cautious. He may need them in the future. I wonder also how GEC see their exit route for their equity injection as they are in much lower down.

I went back to the Admission Document and they say they are subject to the Code plus the articles have been written to give the protection of a Rule 9 offer (unfortunately given the state of the share price this may be just in the 20ps). I am not overly optimistic but the more I think about it the more I think it is not going to be that easy for them to delist and screw minority shareholders. However, I would not hang too many hopes on them worrying about reputation. As a general rule Chinese and Indian companies see Western investors as sheep to be fleeced. The difference here being Kailas is London based.

Eddie - I am not as convinced as yourself that Kailas and Esrano are aligned. Obviously MYT was originally called Caparo Energy and a few years ago it changed its name and Paul came off the Board as Chairman. I made the assumption (purely on the public information) there was a falling out but it would be interesting if you have better information. Maybe they have made up.

Eddie. I think you are talking about the non-free float not what Kailas owns. I regret I have forgotten the AiM free float rules. I researched Esrano a while ago and I am sure it is Camparo who originally backed the company but I got a sense there was a falling out with. Even though a Jersey company I think it is still subject to the Code (not checked the admission document) which I think could offer some protection in a delisted situation. It helps that at the moment Kailas is UK based. I stand to be corrected.