Member Info for Hosai

Well ultimately Fitch give Ocado (£6.2 billion market cap) the same credit rating as THG and Moody's actually give Ocado a worse credit rating than THG - they downgraded Ocado from B2 to B3 in late July.

https://www.esmmagazine.com/technology/moodys-downgrades-ocado-group-citing-prolonged-underperformance-181356

I believe Ste was always slightly a bull overall but may have sold some at times, just reacted very strongly to share price movements in his assessment of the company.
SteveinHull I am not sure, he seems to have now disappeared from the message board and never answered when I asked him a few weeks ago "were you happy or sad that the share price went up today?".

"The Board of Revolution Beauty reiterates that the independent investigation being carried out by Forensic Risk Alliance and Macfarlanes remains ongoing, and no conclusions have been drawn."

Do we think this kind of a fluff, filler sentence? As taken at face value it would seem pretty hard to believe that almost 7 weeks into the investigation "no conclusions have been drawn".

Today was the highest close since 22nd July

Beautiful...thought it was a google glitch at first

43.5% I meant

44.5% gain needed to get us to £1 now...doesn't seem quite so bad as when we closed on 32.33p and needed a 209% gain.

Wow Crowman, you said this a month ago "Next stop 25p and then teens where I do expect it to bounce".

You've gone from waiting for the teens to being invested and waiting for 125p.

I did see the date but sometimes article regurgitate old news, obviously in Sept/Oct the same judge allowed them to reject some leases. Hopefully can see some gain in sp tomo if these are new/additional.

I think this a repeat of older news from a couple of months ago? Happy to be wrong though.

But Golden Ocados revenue is falling this year from last, the "recurring" doesn't seem to be helping them that much versus THG?

So Ocados revenue is "better" than THGs despite it falling this year, Ocado trying to break even at EBITDA level and them expecting to be cash flow positive "in 4-6 years"?
Doesn't seem that much better to me to justify a 6 times higher market cap on the same revenue. Particularly when Ingenuity's future revenue is deemed so uncertain as to be valued at nothing.

In terms of any BO there's more to it than EBITDA. Look at Ocado, they're predicting falling revenue this year and hoping to break even at EBITDA level. They're also hoping to be cash-flow positive in 4-6 years. They have more cash than THG yes but also a lot more debt. Fitch gives them the same credit rating as us. Those "superior" revenues don't seem to be helping them with EBITA. I'm sure Ocado have a good future but that seems as uncertain as ingenuity is uncertain, which is valued at £0.
Ocados market cap is now £5.16 billion versus THG at £727 million. At-least we will make some EBITDA this year. Therefore clearly there is more to it than PE looking at next years EBITDA.

Steve just to clarify, are you happy that the sp went up 11.47% today or sad?

Probably would be good aslong as MM didn't say "We're going to invest the money in another hotel and some crypto".

Ocado market cap has increased by £1.6 billion today so far. An increase of twice our current market cap in a day!

Some of the "holders" appear to be masochists. Maybe they get a kind of sexual thrill from watching their portfolios go down? It's the only explanation.

I didn't realize you were 12 Hereshopin...all the more impressive you setting up the investments for your Son.

Also I think any PE would surely look beyond predicted EBITDA for next year. THG have for most years been a 9-10% EBITDA business I believe. That seems a better guide than one terrible macro year where nearly all companies are doing badly?
Even if revenue stayed flat for a decade at £2.5 billion (obviously very unlikely), a return to that margin would be £225 - 250 million EBITDA per year.

Okehurst surely MM has a board of director duty to work towards what is best for shareholders? Why would shareholders care if THG was going to be in more debt if their shares were to be bought off them for £1.70 when they then wouldn't own any THG anymore?