Member Info for Dartron

Y, as I said everything you have posted is just your opinion. Its not of much interest to me, but thanks for taking the trouble.

Hi Yvellkan, thanks for taking the trouble to register on this site, just to get my attention. Perhaps I could turn this back on to you and ask, can you demonstrate that you have knowledge of the market place for windows and doors? Can you tell us about the key players, what sort of market share they have? Where they are located, who owns them etc? I certainly can. Its all very well pitching up here and making broad statements like you have "renowned for terrible quality", but can you back this up? Do you have any statistics or evidence of this? Can you offer anything other than a opinion? If you could this would be really useful to all investors here. I am happy to hear both sides of an argument, but only if it is based on tangible facts.

If I go down the road to a local window supplier and fitter, he is not making the frames. He is ordering them in, and the glass. As his customer, I don't know where he buys them from. I know that I get a guarantee, and that they meet certain regulatory standards, and that the biggest risk in the purchase is the fitting. Of the windows that I have fitted here, the uPVC frames are no different today, to how they were when fitted 10 years back. It is just plastic and metal. The main issue would be UV exposure, but all uPVC is treated for this. I have replaced a couple of hinges, but I think their failure was probably my fault - handy tip - clean around the opening once a year, and lubricate the hinges.

I actually think the making of window frames is very simple, and almost impossible to get wrong, once you have a jig etc. This is why all of these companies offer very long guarantees. Companies that make frames are only assembling profiles made by other companies. Safestyle has its own glass furnace so can provide the finished glass too. I think you picked on an aspect of the company that isn't an issue, where as I would agree their reputation in other areas is less than perfect.

Please do share your market insights with us.

Yes thought results were ok, and not surprised by recent outlook, seeing this again and again on many quality building companies. Now is probably the time to be buying. I would rather divi was cancelled though.

Peter Wallqvist, Non-executive of the Company, has purchased 20,000 shares.

They give them out to all and sundry and this poor chap has to buy them. Knights looking good O.F.

Ok Neil, we will see. I thought the day ended positively. Most trades today are buys. I doubt there will be a raise, I think it is far more likely that the credit is extended. As I said before, we might not see any news on that for 6 weeks or so, as they gauge whether sales pick up or not. I will share my notes on the lender soon, perhaps then, you will be convinced. Stay tuned!

I liked the strategy going forward, of focussing on their core businesses, concentrating on getting right what they currently have. However, it is astounding that things have been allowed to get so bad, they mention running loss making businesses etc, previously considering low margin work outside of their competence. Facilities run down. Sounds like the board room was empty last year. I shall continue to hold, and wait and see how the next TU looks, as to whether I increase my position here.

Its on youtube now:

https://youtu.be/a50MXSRBi44?t=38

"Baines looked very uncomfortable in the call."

You have talked me in to watching it!

Nothing new in the interims, as we had a trading update 1 week ago. We really just need the customers here and this should fly. Reading through the RNS, Safestyle are putting many things in place to improve the operations and customer experience. Pleased to see that the board mitigated supply disruption by electing to change supplier, in time for the old supplier to withdraw from the market. The Safestyle Academy adult fast-track installer training programme, has provided some new fitters, which I think is an important step toward in housing the fitting. The cost of sales has remained the same comparatively, so lack of profit mainly due to lower sales, and one off items, for example the commercial non compete agreement, which will be fully amortised in 2023.

One question I have - have they considered manufacturing frames for other local fitters, i.e. B2B rather than B2C.

It is a consumer business, severely suffering from weak consumer demand. Until demand picks up, SFE will be loss making. As stated they are going to need a cash injection, However if it can manage to trade its way through until demand picks up, Safestyle should be well poised to return to historic earnings per share, and the share price should increase by several multiples to reflect that. A long term investment, but one I do not think is particularly risky.

You would think some one with such an impressive resume, a string of accolades to his name, could have avoided selling shares for the good of the company, since his CEO was doing the rounds trying to improve sentiment. - Unbelievable.

I have read the Canadian equivalent of the annual report, to see how much this guy earns. I dont think its right to just put this on a chat board even though it is public information, but suffice to say, its unlikely he is poor, and he holds other positions in other companies. I really cant rationalise this, given the positive feedback I have read about the PB presentation. I remain not invested or convinced.

Yep, sell out near 30p, its going to have to knock many times. I did say 20 days ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61Q6wWu5ziY&ab_channel=Bizonacci

The interim dividend was historically about 0.59p, which cost the company around £3.1M. The FY was 1.18p which cost around £6.4M. Cancelling these will cover the impending CMA fine of 7.9M - although the appeal has not been decided yet.

I expect that is why the short is still lingering, waiting to gap this down on the headline of the fine. However, they seem to have various competition form buyers such as Slater and Dbay. An interesting one to hold, and one I think which has definitely bottomed for now. I see broker consensus is around 85p, but that was set before todays results.

Nice little break out this morning. All moving averages are heading up now. Looking good.

I expect those share issues are for many high up employees, and possible some from acquisitions. I too added it up and yes, it is only less than 2% of the issued, but it is the constant drip drip, in a weak market. The original question (at least I think it was) was about the share price performance, and I think that amount has been really unhelpful.

Encouraging to see a recovery today. From the very lows of my 4.3p buy, to be able to sell over 5p represents a gain of 16%. I wonder if we will see some delayed buys printed tomorrow, someone seemed keen. I have kept all of my shares, and wont be selling until I see at least 100% return from my average, which is entirely achievable here in 6 months I would say.

I am not expecting any further news in the results, although a statement like 'things have started to pick up' will do wonders here. Might be back to 10p in that case. Regards funding, look at RGD (a far worse company in all respects) managed to achieve a CLN and 2 loans from large share holders in April.

https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/RGD/additional-funding-and-trading-update-2sse1me5xh3leu7.html

This is the type of thing I expect will happen here. At SFE, the largest holder Alantra's Private Debt division currently manages c. €1bn of assets. They have probably paid several multiples of the mcap for their 22% stake. Why would they let the likes of you and I in here at 3p? (5M mcap). Just doesnt make sense. A CLN will allow them to increase their stake if things go badly, or help their investment do well in a good case. Same goes for Soros, or Janus Henderson. They are also motivated to see this do well.

Https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/LDG/finsbury-food-group-investment-update-brk5lhsj0584ylq.html

Sounds like we will retain a stake of the privately owned company, for the dividends currently.

I will tell you problem with this share and its poor share price performance, its actually quite simple.

additional listing of 95,729 fully paid up ordinary 5 pence shares - 20th September

additional listing of 239,754 fully paid up ordinary 5 pence shares - 13th September

additional listing of 239,876 fully paid up ordinary 5 pence shares - 6th September

additional listing of 1,020,497 fully paid up ordinary 5 pence shares - 31st August

additional listing of 104,364 fully paid up ordinary 5 pence shares - 3rd August

additional issue and allotment of 433,228 Ordinary Shares, In addition to exercising the Options Mark Fry has also sold 250,000 Ordinary Shares - 25th July

additional listing of 56,936 fully paid up ordinary 5 pence shares - 15th May

The price here is depressed due to over supply. These shares are being issued and sold several times per month. Regardless of how the company is performing, the dilution and drip drip selling is creating a poor set up for investment returns. They really need to get a grip of this, if anything they should be buying back shares. Wouldn't be surprised if it was a short sell target, they literally tell you when you will be able to cover the short.

Pretty straight forward, if the buy out goes ahead, our 11M shares will get bought for £1.10p each. By my calculations we paid an average of 79p for them. 31p x 11.76M = £3,545,600 gain, about the 23% they mention.

We are not buying FIF, we do not have to worry about what to happens to it afterwards. I think that is ok.

At least that is my assumption, I suppose its possible we remain invested after it is taken private, that could be even better?. What will Dbay do with it? Can they flip it for more? C'mon this is exciting!

LDG, This type of investment is similar to a closed end fund, and really the holding time for a such a fund should be about 3 to 5 years. I expect things will be very different then, look at something like PIN historically (as that does not pay a dividend).

Its a poor time for for AIM, small caps and these funds so perhaps an entirely different investment needs to be considered for those dissatisfied here. I like the concentrated exposure to a few more small caps, and the expertise Dbay can provide.

You should probably sell if you don't understand how this investment works.

Epwin only manufactures windows (does not fit like SFE). They also manufacture Doors (which I think Safestyle do not), and they acquired a PVC decking company, and uPVC recycling. However interesting to see that overall demand is robust. - One possible difference here is that Epwin have exposure to new build market.

From their HY results:

Raw material cost inflation has continued to ease, although PVC resin prices remain at elevated levels

Q3 trading to date has been encouraging with profitability ahead of 2022

RMI demand has remained robust into H2 2023, with trading in core markets remaining resilient

I suppose if we were to get carried away, we could say SFE would fit within the Epwin portfolio, and Epwn certainly have the funds to buy this, but I think this is unrealistic. The case for it would be: Safestyle currently use uPVC profile supplied from Liniar Limited, a subsidiary of Quanex Building Products Corporation, I believe Epwin manufacture their own. Therefore Epwin would have a further outlet for their profiles (and their doors), and access to a further facility to manufacture windows. You never know.

Epwin say " Robust balance sheet, with in excess of £60 million headroom on banking facilities to support strategic objectives".

Https://www.lse.co.uk/rns/FIF/recommended-acquisition-of-finsbury-food-group-qkxhw2obvcnu06r.html

23.6 per cent. to the Closing Price of 89.0p on 19 September 2023;

APH next?!!