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Great news today. DO we have any realistic 6-12m target SP for this? What price would people be comfortable cashing out?
This is interesting and pleasing to see. Mooky has shown serious miscalculation in the past (CP, suspended sentence in Israel) - so hopeuflly this attempt at possibly screwing people over will fail too!
(Im slightly gutted i sold half my holding for pittance now - and didnt just put it back in when it completely tanked a few days ago lol)
CP have just been silly here - they may have satisfaction that they contributed to CW going bust - but at a cost of likely large legal fees and missing out on a decent sized payment.
Yes once CP got awarded that figure - they were always gunning for more than they deserved - as no one in their right mind could ever equate their compensation for a failed takeover at that figure. It was just ridiculous. But I think they got so drunk over that award figure they lost the ability to act pragmatically.
Thing is had CP come to a settlement with CW - then i believe there would have been a strong chance that Cw would have been able to refinance and not got into this mess (well before C11). CW said that it was the CP situation which made it impossible to raise financing.
It is on one hand silly on CP's side but then on the other hand - CW were never going to agree to anything near the award amount - they probably would have agreed to something like $50m which is a massive drop from CP would be expecting.
The biggest problem in this whole CP mess was the incompetent judge who made that ridiculous award. She basically implied herself that the amount wasnt really based on anything concrete...she was probably expecting an appeal to iron the award out.......but the logistics of an appeal process (time etc) were just not going to make that possible.
What a mess.
Thanks Wolf. Thing is had I bought recently - I would have just saved the headache and got out. But because i got in so long ago and my average was so high - it got to a point where it wasnt going to make a massive difference if i lost it all. I have lost a lot but the damage was done a long time ago - and the majority of the damage was done by the CP case.
Even this going compeltely t*ts up, stinks of something dodgy. Apparently Mooky is in line for a 7.5% management fee....which if true kind of explains a lot and we essentially got done over.
I always felt we would get out of this - unless the one thing happened - Mooky was going to scr*w us over....and it appears that may be exactly whats happened
Graham, this was the first share i ever bought too...made some decent money in the first few days but then just got sucked in and ended up losing way more than you have. Its been a very draining experience. We got hit with some severe bad luck - especially the CP fine - which was absolutely ludicrous and now it seems like Mooky himself may have scr*ed us over.
Cashed out majority of small pittance today....just trying to take look positively to the future and it has been a massive learning curve. Forced me to study how to trade and so just taking it as a very very expensive education!
Good to see its likely to beat it, but we did have some good releases this month so its disappointing not to see it beat it with a bigger margin. I think the performances of '65' and 'Shazam' were disappointing. Otherwise we probably shoudl have been looking at closer to 650m
The line in the deadline article "Debtors would end up owning 100% of the publicly trading company"
Seems a little unsubstantiated in relation to the latest update. I cant see any other reference for this line or the source for this - other than the previous RNS's. Unless ive missed something.
Fingers still crossed!
Yes I saw that report in the FT.
What is also odd and concerning is Sand Grove seem to be shorting CW too despite having lent them money.
Who knows what the hell is going on!
Thanks RI. Thats my impression too that the money was used to pay for running of CW - particularly as they were struggling for cash due to Covid. So when all thsi additional debt accrued over Covid is spoken about - im assuming it would include this chunk too?
If it was used for the running of CW then whats all this recent talk of Mooky cashing out about? It sounds as if he put his own shares up as security to get the company some more cashflow?
What am I missing?
Those articles all seem to suggest the money was provided for Cineworld not for personal use. Wouldn't there have been questions raised at the time if this 200m or so didn't hit a CW account?
This might sound like a silly question - but a lot has been discussed about Sand Grove over the past couple of days. Has the money they provided gone into CW or to Mooky and his family? Also are they part of the C11 process as either secured or unsecured lenders?
My main issue would arise if at the end of all this - shareholders were wiped out - but he managed to 'earn' his share back by negotiating something with the lenders. With regards to how CW got into the mess, I only really have an issue with no get out clause in the CP contract. Other than that - i dont know if theres much else he could ahve done about the rest - pandemic, streaming etc.
Yes people say he overleveraged, shoudlnt have bough regal etc - but tbh had they not been such an aggressive company - we may not have invested in them in the first place....
If there seemed some underhand work by the BOD and Mooky i'd certainly support this.
What I have wondered is there are some larger instituitional shareholders - who surely would also feel like they have been intentionally 'conned' - woudl we expect them to pursue legal action particularly as they are likely to have more resources to commit to this?
It might be worth keeping in mind Mooky is now on a suspended sentence - although not sure whether this being a completely jurisdiction makes that meaningless in this instance...
Very sorry to hear that Tall_Chap. I hope whatever happens, you manage to mitigate the loss somehow.
I'm down a sh*t load too....more painful knowing I was holding it at £1.20 and well up. I've just had to accept it as a harsh learning experience.
The share just got hit by continuous blows....and then that abhorrent CP judgement was just a disgrace by the judge (Not that CW were found guilty, but just plucking a figure based on ridiculous reasoning).
Anyway still clinging on to some hope that something can be salvaged.
It seems like its going to either boil down to whethr Mooky is actually scr*wing us or if CP decide to accept.....
lol i know....just literally sat back down to take a look. Nevermind - happy for this to just keep going up!
No worries Wolf. Gave me opportunity to pull up the document and read it - very interesting actually...and it was pleasing to read about them mentioning shareholders.
Also - remind us in the document that the family themslves have lost a $bn personally as a result....just highlights how much they have lost their family and legacy if this doesnt work out....they wont be giving this up without a fight
https://assets.bwbx.io/documents/users/iqjWHBFdfxIU/rmjk5peurDNc/v0
Hi Wolf, further to your post ive just pulled up the first day declaration filing (is this what you were referring to?)....Its very interesting and yes Israel goes give a details overview of the financing. However I havent managed to find the bit which says that the lenders refused to lend more/be more flexible because of the terms etc....it just says that they refused basically. But if you scroll down a bit you get to the following part:
137. ...............Among other things, current and prospective financing sources have cited
the judgment in refusing to provide the Group with additional liquidity or flexibility, and
Cineworld’s stock price has been impacted and depressed by the overhang caused by the judgment
and ongoing appeal.
So the CP situation is mentioned specifically as a reason and I cant see anything else.
Also another interesting point in the document is Israel often referring to their consideration for impact on shareholders - which is pleasing to see - that it sounds at least that they do at least care or pretend to care about us !
Yes I understand CP will get paid a similar amount to others as directed by the judge. Hence why this doesnt work for CW as Cw dont want to p*ss off companies crucial to their supply chain.
Im sure CW specifically stated that is was teh CP situation which prevented them raising finance.....not that they over financed previously, during Covid or anything like that.
How can this CP situation be so casually ignored in this whole thing. Its a $1bn - its a massive massive chunk which any lender or buyer has to consider when they are valuing the company. Its essentially dead weight. Its totally understandable how its a massive roadblock. If an agreement is reached and lets say the settlement is now $100m, and so the whole operation becomes a $900m better value overnight!
We're not just talking about a coupl eof hundred grand for the pick and mix supplier!