Yu Energy Share Chat (YU.)

Big Buys After Hours Trading - that is significant and very nice to see for (existing) shareholders

Closing auction was 1510, the 16:31 @ 1500 may have been a buy, likewise the trade at 16:04 @ 1500, but none of the other trades were above mid price, plus there’s duplicate prints.

Perhaps a BoD has bought?, why as yet haven’t they bought?. Why isn’t the CFO selling £3.6m pre TU of concern to holders here?.

YU aren’t in control of quite a few things not just the commodity price (that’s now Shell who want a piece / the business hence the covenants).

Since 2013 YU have only been profitable:FY17, FY21. FY22 and FY23. Profit FY17 was only £1.7m, as for FY21 onwards IMO that’s solely down to the impact of the energy crisis.

Just some balance.

Interesting...thanks for posting

How do you know thst the BOD haven't bought?

SP1

I posted: perhaps a BoD has bought?, why as yet haven’t they bought?.

The only way we would know if they have bought is via an RNS. As posted as yet there has been no holdings RNS. Lets see if an RNS pops up next week.

The director sells back in April/May don't worry me particularly as BK owns 51.8% of the companies shares, the CFO still has nearly 100k shares and I have no issue with the CFO who has been key in turning the company around cashing some of his gains in. It will be interesting to see what happens on Monday with the opening price as those transactions could easily be one of the MMs filling a largish order from 16:00 onwards. I wasn't online to see what was going on Level 2 at that point.

Rawson has only ever bought on the market once, five years ago c £54k. He’s recently sold over 50% (as did the Director of Retail) in a couple of trades for £3.6m. If BK were to sell I’d think he’d do via a placing. Sorry but I don’t rate Rawson as CFO given what happened in FY19, likewise a CFO selling as much as he has just before a TU where the market reacted as negatively can’t IMO be ignored or perceived as a positive signal.

But if he has bought a decent wedge post the TU then fair enough.

@DD - out of interest what don't you like about what the CFO did in 2019?

Can't see him buying on the open market when he still has options over 195k shares.

I am not saying that any director has bought shares post TU, today's share action after hours to me just says someone is.

Ipc

In 2018 when accounting issues were identified, the FCA commenced an investigation into the FY18 accounts, the previous CFO was booted out, and they appointed Rawson on 3rd Sept 2018. Within 2 months of the appointment being announced they issued an RNS on 24th Oct 2018 (“YU Group PLC Trading Statement and Accounting Review) and clearly stated in their summary: “The Board are confident that the Group will achieve profitability for the year ending 31 December 2019,…”

For FY19 they made a net loss of £4.97m, an operating loss of £5.9m. So clearly Rawson got his numbers / forecasts significantly wrong (worst case scenario he got them right which plants doubt about the BoD but won’t go there!).

Not until their trading update in July 2019 did they first start to mention profitability was actually going to be impacted in FY19 H1 (an adjusted EBITDA loss of £2.5m to £3m, it was a loss of £2.7m for H1). Prior to that TU all was well and the business was doing fine!, ie in line with broker forecast of net profit of £5m. It then looks like the house broker issued notes possibly as late as Oct with a forecast loss for FY19 of £5.3m from previously forecasting a profit of £5m. So the business financial forecasts for FY19 were originally a net profit of £5m which ended up with a loss of £4.97m. That’s some major oversight / error by the CFO IMO.

As for the BoD buying shares, or not buying after the share price has crashed over 30% (from eop 22nd to intraday low 25th). If they don’t back the lorry up, I’m talking six figures, then IMO it doesn’t indicate to me that they have much conviction and belief in the profitable growth of the business and / or the share price (I’d exclude BK from that statement). Share options are heavily discounted and thus minimal risk in terms of virtually a guaranteed return - they don’t after all have to take them up if a loss is likely. So forget options, if they aren’t seeing a bargain at the current price or the 30% discount then why should I dip into my pocket!?. Previously when Rawsin sold a significant amount of his holdings, the business bought at £17, IMO Rawson knew what was coming!. Pity he didn’t in FY19…..or did he?. Either way I’ve not too much confidence in him / the BoD.

Just my opinion, not everyone will agree which is fine, this is a market after all and there has to be bulls and bears.

Oh god, not another day of DD posting.

So far he's made a fortune, seen another one available but doesn't want to take up that option silently so he's going to spend the weekend peeing everyone of with engaging negativity.

It has been a bit disappointing, and gloating doesn't help. However I seen my SP rise these past few years and have faith in U to continue to deliver.

Hope you all have better weekends.

@DD - This is where we differ. Nick Parker the previous CFO ( who created the accounting mess) stepped down in May 2018.

Rawson(the current CFO) was appointed on 22nd Aug 2018.

He walked into an accounting meltdown - clearly poor systems, lack of oversight, no controls of business margin etc.

The H1 report published (19/09/2018) less than 1 month after his appointment does still contain incorrect financial data but the statement in October will have been produced as a result of his work and getting to grips with the mess Nick Parker left.

The TU on 24/10/2018 does contain a forward looking statement saying 2019 would be profitable, but it wasn't until they reviewed all of their contracted business ( which is also stated they will be doing in the same TU) did they discover the black hole NP had created.

The FCA came in in Dec, and rightly so, and finished in May 2019.

The outcome was that the new processes, systems and procedures implemented under Rawson's watch were good enough to turn the company around, put in place correct accounting, deal with the bad debt he inherited from poor margins and drive the business successfully forward. I see him as being the primary reason for these changes and improving their systems.

That's my take on it and it is very different from yours so don't see a need to debate it - but as you say just putting a different point of view.

On the SP front, YU historical have traded up and down like this around TU and Report times, I see it as an issue with low liquidity, it takes less than 1% of shares to trade to see a 20-30% market change, so don't see it as an issue or need for the board to buy shares, just an opportunity for traders to make money. Lo g term, in my view, the company will be going in one direction, but again we differ on this point.

Ipc

Final point - It took Rawson nearly a year to go from a forecast of profitability to first flagging a loss. Over a year before broker forecasts went from a pricy of £5m to a loss of £5.3m. Using the previous accounting issues as an excuse doesn’t wash IMO.

adekela - Definitely Not gloating. Posting my views on the business. Resorting to personal comments is of no value here whatsoever.

Phone typo - that’s “from a profit (not pricy) of £5m…”

@DD the findings of the financial review Dec 2018 and the TU Jan 2019 are all clear on earnings, profitability and margins and why it will take time. Having worked for 20+ years with ERP systems I know from experience how difficult a forensic review and reworking of company process is. To come in, identify and then put in place changes of this scope for a rapidly growing company is a difficult task, so I am very happy with what the board did, how they communicated and the end results from the 2018/2019 period.

Ipc

Sorry but the Jan 19 TU was still saying everything was okay, zero mention of a potential loss for that FY. Yes they mentioned lower margins but they didn’t issue a profit warning, the broker forecasts were still saying a £5m net profit for the year. A loss for H1 was only mentioned in their July 2019 TU but forecasts still only changed to a loss in Oct. I’m just reviewing and commenting on the facts given, I’ll take your word as to the difficulties Rawson May have been facing in terms of the business admin issues etc, but that’s subjective and as I’ve said Rawson is the CFO and it’s in his shift irrespective.

Will leave it there as I’m upsetting some folks.

Still going on about 2019 must have posted about this 10 times now over the last couple of months.

What about turnover over that period going up from £85m to £674m+

What about EPS going from loss to 1.85p a share ?

Do you and rawson have history ? Because the way you talk about him with very little respect regards to accountancy skills and even questioning why he doesn’t buy shares and when he has it isn’t good enough.

It does smack of history and would answer a lot of questions over the continual repeating of the same stuff.

Rawson 2019, Rawson selling shares implying insider dealing, rawson never buy shares and when he does only a token amount,

To be perfectly honest taking a company up from loss making to where we are now through two black swan event is actually incredible especially when so many rivals crumbled.

@Sparky, I was interested in why DD didn't like 2019. He has answered so let's leave it there. As I said in my post we will differ on these things - I believe he did he great job in difficult circumstances 6 years ago when he joined YU. DD doesn't. That's it.

Let's see what happens next week and how the MMs react to the large after hours trades if at all.

Let's now move forward and see what

Good point but when it’s constantly posted week after week it gets annoying.

Sparky

Why do you always resort to stupid accusations, jeez. I’m posting in response to ipc. I’m posting facts, such a chequered background is a red flag for me, end of.

You need to look at the price of energy against YU’s profitability. It’s pretty obvious to me why they’ve made phenomenal income growth and profits. A CFO selling £3.6m over half his holdings has to be seen as negative IMO. And taking what the market thought of the TU it’s no wonder he sold along with the Director of Retail.

Tbh I’m fed up with your stupid accusations, you can’t stick to the subject matter but constantly resort to making personal accusations, pathetic tbh.

Let's see whether the board have re-considered a buyback given the drop. Depends on if they have the cash over hedging requirements, and their view on proper stewardship of shareholder funds. Say a target of 1%, up to £3m would be a realistic start. Something like 5,000 shares a day?

Lol DD

Easy to answer the question yes or no because I reckon 20+ times you have mentioned 2019. Obviously plays on your mind a lot. Just curious as not normal from events nearly 6 years ago during a very difficult time.

Sparky

Not going to keep answering your stupid questions on here, nobody’s interested. Please stick to debating the company.

We are interested. Your obsession with Rawson and many years ago is at the best obsessional abd at worst indicates an unhealthy psychological condition .

So come on. Answer the question.

SP1

Wow!, PMSL

Have posted on ADVFN. Not clogging this board up.

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