Thg Share Chat (THG)

Thought this board had already reached the bottom of the barrel by giving credence to CitySpys tweets, but now it’s posting ChatGPT advice 😅😅

In my personal opinion, it might be more prudent not to invest in Ingenuity stock at this time. Here's why:

1. Cash Flow Issues

Negative cash flow puts pressure on the company in the short term and increases the likelihood of needing additional capital. This poses a significant risk to investors.

2. Uncertain Growth Prospects

The projection of growth "in 2-3-4 years" may sound appealing, but it heavily relies on uncertain future outcomes. Without clear execution plans or proven performance, waiting might be risky.

3. Market Conditions

In the current economic climate, investors prioritize profitability and stability. If Ingenuity lacks competitiveness in these areas, it may not be an attractive investment option.

When might it be worth considering?

It would be more appropriate to invest if the company shows clear signs of being on a growth trajectory, secures significant partnerships, or demonstrates improved financial stability.

Summary: At this stage, it might be wiser to gather more information and observe the situation. If you're looking for a safer option, considering alternative stable investments could be a better choice.

Ah yes the unmentionable one, Burnley's answer to Jeff Bezos... 😆 🤣 😂

The CEO?

Just a thought..?

Also, a bunch of missed numbers..

Here's a thought...

If THG's “Myprotein is the biggest and fastest-growing nutrition brand in the world.." and THG's Beauty division is one of the best on-line beauty retailers in the UK, why on earth does THG have the lowest valuation ratio of any company on the London Stock Exchange?

“Kirsty’s to launch Myprotein meal pots into grocery in the new year.

Free-from ready meal maker Kirsty’s is to launch a range of Myprotein-branded meal pots in the UK.

It comprises five meals with rice – Chipotle Beef Chilli, Sriracha Chicken, Japanese Style Chicken Curry, Firecracker Chicken, and Penang Chicken – and a Brunch Bowl with chicken sausages.

All the meals (rsp: £4/325g) contain British meat and locally sourced vegetables. Each weighs in at under 400 calories, with up to 32g protein.

They have already hit Tesco and Dunnes stores in Ireland, and will roll into Sainsbury’s, Morrisons, Co-op, Spar and Booker in the UK from 1 January.

The partnership with Myprotein – which has been in development for the past year – had doubled the volume coming from Kirsty’s Harrogate factory “overnight”, said MD Kirsty Henshaw.

Kirsty’s was previously producing 100,000 meals a week and is now making 200,000 meals a week, which has allowed Henshaw to introduce a new shift at the factory and hire 18 additional staff members.

The contract contributes to Henshaw’s ambition to grow the business, having launched allergen-free children’s range Flourish by Kirsty’s over the summer, followed by high-protein ready meal range Prep’d Protein in October.

“Myprotein is the biggest and fastest-growing nutrition brand in the world, so we are really excited to be partnering with them,” said Henshaw.

Kirsty’s will work with Müller Yogurt & Desserts, which launched its own Myprotein-branded range in September, to roll out “cross-category Myprotein chillers” in the new year, Henshaw added.“

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/news/kirstys-to-launch-myprotein-meal-pots-into-grocery-in-the-new-year/698752.article

"They should have gone to the market with ingenuity, but we all know why they didn't! "

Well given the negative cash flow for the forseeable it would be a mistake to take Ingenuity to the market right now..... the shorters and Investment bankers would tear the share price apart and no doubt the analysts would continue to give it a hard time.

Being private avoids all that share price volatility and wasted energy , leaving the usiness to just get on with developing existing and new client relationships.

In 2-3-4 years time it could well prove to have been a wise thing to have done

"Remain Co will have c. £200m net debt, while not ideal..."

Look back over the past 5-10 years and you could probably trace a fair amount of debt being related to acquisitions which will sit within RemainCo..... so...debt is to a large extent being placed to the company to which it is aligned to...

Given that the CAPEX going forward will be much reduced for RemainCo the £200m plus cash in RemainCo will quite possibly be used to reduce some of that debt ...

They should have gone to the market with ingenuity, but we all know why they didn't!

It was my understanding that some of the tax benefits from past losses are being kept with remain co?

Regardless, nothing being done here is criminal, more just the consequences of poor management from the board in the past, ie making 1 billion in cash disappear over the years. Debt being all kept with remain co definitely hurts it, but not any alternative other than the demerger not going ahead. Imagine you were the bank, and moulding came you saying he was going to move £600m of debt maturing in the next few years into a business that won't be cashflow neutral for another 3 years. Remain Co will have c. £200m net debt, while not ideal, isn't the end of the world moving forward.

I'm optimistic about nutrition in the next couple of years in terms of growth. I know everyone likes to complain about the rebrand and how it has affected revenue, etc., but that is normal in terms of rebrands, so honestly, it is a valid excuse. Whether or not you think the rebrand was wise is another discussion, but it seems to be being received positively.

If the rebrand turns out to be beneficial in anyway free cash flow will most likely exceed 100m as the board has said 2023 and 2024 projected cash flow between 70-100m with beauty underperforming last year and this year nutrition being a drag.

the low stock price just now reflects a lot of uncertainty but I'm willing to bet nutrition and beauty will be performing very well in the next couple of years and 47p is a bargain

If the losses do go with Ingen, maybe another bid wouldn’t be a surprise!

“Inside THG Studios: Disney, Myprotein and the rapidly-growing creative powerhouse next door to Manchester Airport”

https://www.prolificnorth.co.uk/news/inside-thg-studios-disney-myprotein-and-the-rapidly-growing-creative-powerhouse-next-door-to-manchester-airport/

HSBC is the complete opposite to Carslberg..it's probably the worst Broker in the World don't you think?

Well I’ve chatted on line and spoke of them directly and apparently they use a third party “Custodian” to purchase the shares and HSBC just hold them in an account. HSBC unable to provide contact details of said custodian.

I did find this on their HSBC SITE.

You'll not receive any correspondence direct from the company in which you hold shares, but in most circumstances, we'll try to inform you by post of any corporate actions affecting your account, although there will be some situations where it is not possible for us to do so and in those cases we'll act on your behalf as we see fit.

So its not possible and it appears I will not be investing in the spin off. Well you live and learn.

Unfortunately in my experience, HSBC are one of the worst brokers out there. They have no clue what to do when there is a corporate action, when you phone up they are totally uninformed as to what you need to do until it's too late. They get zero points for customer service. JMO Adyor!

Just received a letter from HSBC where they will do their best to apply the new shares to my account after 2 Jan. No mention of executing any share options. Just chatted with HSBC invest direct on line and they have no further info at present?

Any advice out there?

Hl easy as and on my account to take action. My IG nothing 3 call now and when finally given info it was wrong as he did not even know i have the option to choose in my none isa acc. So now waiting for a call back in morning as the dept he needs has closed for the day.....

I agree, now that the unmentionable one has effectively 'nicked' Ingenuity for next to nothing, RemainCo is the biggest source of revenue I think?. Maybe RemainCo will suddenly become very profitable now that it's not pouring £millions a year into Ingenuity? JMO ADYOR!

You wouldn't have thought he'd screw over remain co because he needs this to be in business for his private baby to succeed! This I think is our only saving grace?

On a slightly different topic, what are peoples thoughts about remainco’s potential reduction in margins due to the uplift in cost that ingenuity may now charge THG as they are separate companies?

Thank you Stanley & TT. I will take another look.

@showsnoman

I just spoke to ii.. the vote is nothing to do with your election on the Newco demerger, they are two separate things, but you can only access them both via the online portal not on the mobile APP. Adyor!

Not long to go , even the owners of the shares shorted have to decide which way to go . Shorts closing and running out of time I guess .

For example If MM is going to swap shares in Thg for more shares Ing then they have to be called in and shorts have to close there’s my reasoning.

Might make it through this time.

Come on Steve ...with me on 3 - blow. See if we can together get this baby over the line...

3, 2, 1...

Resistance at 47p - extraordinary, really.

An early Christmas present from master moulding

On the money OSG, Matthew moulding g is the biggest threat to shareholders unlocking value in their thg holdings it seems

The best thing our CEO could do for shareholders is to claim asylum in Moscow along with the other two dictators. 95% value destruction for private investors whilst enjoying the high life is disgrace. JMHO!

Resistance at 47p - extraordinary, really.

The drag and tag along rights seem ok for minority holders based on feedback I have had!

Thanks for the input, stockbroker belt.i will have a look tonight out of academic interest.

Stockbrokerbelt

yes...but..as I suggest..I dont think it is possible to put such stuff in an official document without plenty of small print that in the end would make you as uncertain as you might be now...

MM "end plan" would no doubt be to take an offer that he cant refuse ...whatever that might be and from wherever it might come from... He certainly inst interested in handing over assets cheaply during a down period for the economy.... his current view is to carry on and see light at the end of the tunnel

Shareholder value comes only from the asset performance.... assets are worthless if they don't perform... so..all in all..the macro world we deal with has to improve ...because ..basically MM has gathered together most of the assets he needs ...and it is really just about those assets ...performing ..

As with many businesses right now.... the cost of borrowing against assets is proving more expensive than the return those assets are currently providing...

IMO

Pokerchips - to your first point, I understand what you are saying re uncertainty of any outcome. My response would be:

1. Because I’m certain MM does have a plan of sorts in his mind. I doubt he’s doing this without some eye on the end game & it’d be nice to know his thoughts on where it could take us.

2. Linked to 1, most holders are sat on huge paper losses. This transaction is supposedly about realising value for shareholders, and yet there’s significant tax and also illiquidity disadvantages in the interim so I don’t see it as hugely unreasonable to have liked to have known more about the business plan to realise said value from this approach.

The.Italian - I’ve since found that there’s a shareholders agreement in addition to the circular. For those interested, schedule 2 page 40 covers it. At first glance it seems they exist but out & about so I’ll need to give that a read later.

" It’s a bit surprising to me that they don’t set out their exit plan (or even options) "

why?

why would you expect it at this time .... given that .. there can be no certainty behind anything anyway...given the future is unpredictable ...and options... are meaningless ... as there are all sorts of reasons why might end up choosing one above another ..depending on unfolding circumstances ....they would have to give a lot of small print with any of that anyway... so makes it meaningless to some extent ..

At the end of the day.... as a minority investor ..you are always going to be having to go along with majority decisions.... even in a listed company....

" - seems like the facility that will be put in place to trade shares is a closed shop - only to other Ingenuity holders or with approval by the board. Correct? "

closed shop in the sense that other Ingenuity holders be given a first option ..... As far as Jenkins option.... there may well be existing holders who will offer to buy any private investor holding ...given that they may seek to buy say another 5m shares and be willing to buy from whoever would be selling .... in other words a potential buyer may well be always there in the background ..

Right now of course is a bad time to sell..whether a demerger ..or no demerger ...so..the option of sitting tight is the only real option ...anyway

Renfrew

you have to face reality here.... you basically needed to either take part in the fund raise ...or... top up your share holding by the fund raise dilution affect... That has been thrown at everyone and no one can change that ... the market has though given a very good prices under 40p to allow holders to do that even if they didn't buy in the placing...

You basically then have to decide whether to put that 13.4% market top up/fund raise top up into Ingenuity or keep it in RemainCo ...

You are "giving away" your Ingenuity holding if you choose not to top up...simply because of the fund raise dilution affect...

It is the dilution affect that you would be basically "giving away" , not as such your Ingenuity holding...

The demerger itself is not the problem here ....the "problem" is the crappy fund raise price and dilution affect of it ...

If they had had a fund raise to fund Ingenuity further ( without any demerger) you would be facing the same situation

Ingenuity now has funds to manage its business development to the medium term ...probably to cash flow break even scenario...at which point they may well decide to do an IPO and bring it back to the market ..

What happens to Ingenuity over the next 2-3-4 years would happen whether it is part of THG or not...the journey itself is the same .. so..if it wasn't demerged you would be facing the same journey and use of cash to develop it further.

No one can predict the future whether THG is kept as it is or there is this split .... the world is very unpredictable ... and Retail is very much at the mercy of the external macro issues that affect the spending ability of retail customers... That is no different whether THG stays as it is...or Ingenuity splits off

For RemainCo to re-rate it does however need to perform... if the revenue and margins don't recover sufficiently then there could be shorters bringing the price down...nothing would change in that scenario. However if it does perform then the share price would no doubt improve.

If there was to be an IPO in say 3-4 years ...well...that may seem like a long time away...but...4 years passes surprisingly fast... Trump is back after 4 years away.... hardly seems like he left.... Tokyo Olympics one minute..Paris Olympics the next...

For those who are happy to be at least medium term thinkers then for them holding Ingenuity for now is not such an issue ... Private Investors don't tend to have the same mentality ..they like to have all the options to sell when they want to..

Ingenuity now is a bit like deciding to invest in a fund ... invest and leave it.... but with no guarantees ...

You make your own decisions ....

The options are limited for PI's. Very handsome for MM and the major investors.

The prospectus for the demerger explains the Offer with a good example of a share holder who owns 1,000,000 THG ordinary shares (as you do!):

This is my understanding of how it works

Options:

1) Take up the offer (guaranteed entitlement) to receive B shares, which become Ingenuity shares when business is split.

- Receive 133,756 B shares, which become Ingenuity shares (which is a private, unlisted company)

- THG reduce your share holding to 866,244 shares (in the remaining 2 divisions)

2) Make no election (default selection)

- Continue to hold 1,000,000 THG shares (in 2 remaining divisions)

- Receive a proportional increase in share holding (not number of shares), as the split will eliminate "in excess of all the dilution occasioned by the fundraise" (£95.4m gross raised to spin off Ingenuity with "sufficient funds through to cash flow breakeven")

3) Elect to receive more or less than the Guaranteed Entitlement of Ingenuity shares in exchange for a commensurate reduction of increase in the proportional holding of ordinary THG shares.

eg Elect to receive 10% of holding as B shares

Receive 100,000 Ingenuity

Retain 900,000 THG shares

eg Elect to receive 20% of holding as B shares

Receive 200,000 Ingenuity shares - subject to scale backs

Retain 800,000 THG shares

I'm going for the default selection as I don't want to hold unlisted shares in my portfolio. These aren't valued as such and will be hard to trade (also can't hold in an ISA) I also believe that the remaining 2 sections - Beauty and Nutrition will be worth significantly more, without trying to support Ingenuity, which is a financial drain on the organisation.

So yes, in effect giving away 1/3 of the business in my shareholding for nothing (and no doubt Moulding and other large shareholders and funds will spin this off or IPO it and make a fortune at some point in the future), however it should unlock value in THG and allow the share price to re-rate in the New Year.

Just my view, for what its worth.

Good luck to all PIs, hopefully your decision will be rewarding.

All - get financial advice if you are not sure.

Don't follow the advice of people on a BB.

Most of them are guessing.

Hello ALL!

I am still trying to get my head around this demerger.

So if I don’t take the offer in the new co, basically I am giving away my current share holding in Ingenuity for free?!

Am I at all compensated if I choose to stick with Beauty and Nutrition? And not take the offer???

But if I take the offer, I get 13.4% of my current holding or 1 equal share of my current holding?

It’s all a bit ambiguous. We have no idea do we of potential values for either split companies or future contracts, debts etc etc… I mean if we stick with Beauty/Nutrition what is the SP going to be rated at?

Does anybody know or have any thoughts on this??

Thank you all. And Good Luck with your decisions.

He’s an absolute scoundrel

The problem is, Stanley, he's taken all the loot but it doesn't look like he is going anywhere. Sure hope I'm wrong on that.

It's safe to say that all dictators only have a certain shelf life, like President Assad of Syria as we've seen in the news today. His Generals have abandoned him and it looks like the unmentionable one is about to be toppled by his generals at THG and seek political asylum in NewCo don't you think? As we know all dictators run away with some loot but maybe it's a price worth paying to see the back of them for the greater good of what remains? JMO Adyor

Oculus, I agree and my point was that because the terms are what they are, is the reason the SP catered to 40p.

And let's be honest, the demerger could and should have happened at least a year ago maybe more before even more FCF was swallowed by Ingenuity but oh no, that wouldn't fit into Mouldings big heist plan.

Ryanf,

"Sorry but since the demerger was known, the SP declined from 65p to 40p. On what planet do you think people want the demerger?"

Sorry but as a long term holder following opinion on THG, the demerger of Ingenuity and removal of its capital expenditure was wanted by many, just not on the terms it's been offered which considering the money that has been pumped into Ingenuity appears to be daylight robbery.

This Christmas(post budget) everyone’s trading looks appalling but let’s hope things improve next year as Matt expects?

That's the €600m question. Everything hinges on how trading goes, I would say next 18 months are quite critical for the company. If trading goes well and Remainco is spewing out the kind of free cash Moulding has promised, maybe the company maintains a decent credit rating and refinancing is doable on reasonable terms next year. If trading goes the other way, who knows?

All post recently are being deleted..I’ve been querying debt and how Remainco deal with this going forward, not that far off, I’ve been suggesting something which someone doesn’t like..so what are people’s view on how this debt is going to get refinanced / payed off? Let’s keep in mind that revenues are declining so the ability to refinance at decent levels is going to be difficult..opinions would be welcome but don’t suggest a R A I S E could happen..

To buy or not to buy that is the question I am thinking of doing 10% in Newco

I took it as read. I will receive additional shares. Not I may receive, not your holding will reflect a larger portion of the company once the demerger is complete, additional. How many I guess depends on how many people opt for Newco and how much of their 13.4% allowance they utilise.

As it says you will get additional shares 30.12

This was my understanding (but others have said you just stay with your current holding if you don't take up ingenuity) but as per usual communication is p 1 s s poor. Hl have not provided anything

Thanks for posting.

I assume the below paragraph means that due to cancellation of shares post demerger, that your holding in THG will be a greater proportion of the company. It’s my understanding that you won’t actually receive “additional shares”….

“Take no action. This is the default option. You will receive additional shares of THG plc. The exact number of additional shares will be determined after the demerger results.”

Had this today as well when I messaged them a week ago had I can't help you reply any way sorted now lol must be very complicated I do except

Same with ig

There is no update on IG at all??

Looks like HSBC have made yet another admin error. They sent letter today saying they are going to allocate new shares in the demerger Co without giving an option and as a result they are suspending trading in THG Plc on their platform.

No worries Stokie, I'm of the opinion that Ingenuity is being effectively stolen and if I had the chance I will lump into Ingenuity, but I have no need for instant access to gains and I'd be willing to take the risk on Ingenuity.

Unfortunately, my broker is pathetic (trading 212) and they haven't given me the option. I may try to pick some up on JP Jenkins after but who would be selling those after they opted to keep them? I imagine the value of Ingenuity will skyrocket straight away, Moulding knows this and wants PI's to take RemainCo.

You may have a different time horizon or risk tolerance, so you need to assess that for yourself.

Side note, I still haven't had a response from THG Investor Relations after I asked them how I can keep my Ingenuity share given the CEO stated that "no small private investor would be left behind".

Honestly, we need a dark Knight savour to ruin Mouldings plans. Apollo???

Anyone thinking for us personal shareholders what is the best option ?

Investing101, THG IPO'd at 500p and went to 800p in January 2021. Now we sit at 45p. What part of that wasn't a covid boost?

Literally the top of the market for Asos and Boohoo, Moulding played a blinder.

Now he's taking Ingenuity private for the equivalent of £25m pre dilution.

Could it literally be any worse for PI's, aside from bankruptcy?

1.50 is certainly achievable pretty quickly, especially if we go into a lockdown scenario next year. THG was not listed so didn’t get the boost that Boohoo and Asos did, Boohoo was once near abouts £4.

Shareholders can vote out directors Stanley. That is what the Companies Act allows for. If directors do not conduct their business for the benefit of the company and its shareholders, then they are in breach of their fiduciary duties and shareholders can sue them personally.

On the subject regarding dereliction of management duties. At what point do the actions of a CEO, Chairman and BOD of a public listed company become Corporate theft, or can these individuals do exactly what they like with the company and its assets? Not sure if it is defined anywhere or what the FCA would consider to be deliberate actions to disenfranchise shareholders?

I agree but also the Chairman and the BOD have derelicted their duties since the IPO. As for the unmentionable one, he's just ran the company for his own personal gain on the face of it. Not a single penny has been paid to shareholders since the IPO but Mr unmentionable, the Chairman and the BOD have awarded themselves huge salaries and share options at the expense of other shareholders, they refused potential offers at 170p but then go and buy £ millions of cheap shares at between 47p and 49p and take Ingenuity for almost nothing despite £1 billion of shareholder's money being ploughed into that division? JMO Adyor!

MWelsh - that vote is for the general meeting, it's not the election.

Personally I invested in THG on the back of the potential for ingenuity, not the retail bit. I am not convinced by the performance of beauty and nutrition that they have a good enough management team to grow. So I am minded to take as many ingenuity shares as I can get. But I also know it's a high risk. It's called being between a rock and a hard place.

I should have just invested in the US market... lesson learned

HL last time I called them said they are still in comms with THG and trying to to sort it out and wouldn't give any more info

Forgot to say, use the desktop site and not the app.

I’m with HL. On your account page look for the “shareholder meeting” button and click on it. It takes you to a site where you can vote one way or the other.

I’d hate to miss out on Ingenuity but I can see nothing but massive future dilution as it continues to require capital.

I understand the election needs be made by 19 December at 1pm. The circular states

Shareholders wishing to make an election to participate in the Demerger by way of the B Share

Redesignation and Ingenuity Distribution should complete and return the Form of Election or

make an election through CREST.

I am holding my shares with Hargreaves Lansdown and there is no sign of a corporate action button in order to make the election. Has anyone's broker provided this option yet? Has anyone spoke to HL about whether they will provide this?

In the absence of the brokers providing this option, you can send the form in, however you wont have the share certificate number to complete the form and they will be uable to process the form I would have thought.

Thanks ounce again ryanf would be lovely to see appolo return and fcuk mouldings plans

I have had a notification that I will receive bonus shares due to the demerger. Does anybody know when they will be allocated and will this not dilute the share price further or is this already priced in?

Do seem like exiting calmly and at a decent price for them!

Under the original agreement with Softbank THG kept control, that of course made perfect sense but with this deal its replaced with existing THG shareholders investing direct into Ingenuity.

'which will be separated into a THG owned and controlled subsidiary capable of receiving the investment'

This is what the majority of shareholders now want but I do not understand why, it makes no sense at all.

Can’t disagree 1p.

At roughly the same time, according to Google, SoftBank invested in Autostore itself, instead of a company that had bought/installed Autostore kit:

“SoftBank announced in April 2021 that it would acquire a 40% stake in AutoStore for $2.8 billion. SoftBank became a shareholder in AutoStore after Thomas H. Lee Partners, L.P. and EQT Private Equity had previously acquired the company”

On the same day a fund raise was announced which was subsequently up-scaled due to strong investor demand:

· Proposed c. $1bn capital raising consisting of a subscription of approximately $730m from SBM and a placing of up to $270m with long-standing, technology-focused shareholder Sofina expected to participate in the placing in an amount of up to $85 million, with gross proceeds to be deployed to execute an advanced pipeline of strategic M&A over the course of FY 2021

Placing price 596p per share, THG's current market cap around £700m

Yorek, undoubtedly someone like Mike Ashley will know the value of these Autostore fulfilment centres off the bat, investing in Ingenuity at these levels from his perspective must seem like extreme value having gone through the whole exercise himself many years before, that said its only £10m which may have been all that was available joining late to the party as it were.

The fund raise shares are earmarked for conversion into 'B' shares so not really a cheap entry point into THG, I do expect that to change over time with market purchases in THG as with other Fraser invested companies.

I need to re-read the documentation this weekend as often miss something first time around, its a shame that investors are being put in this position but I guess this is the desired route favoured by major shareholders.

Staggering to think Ingenuity was valued at almost £6.3b in May 2021.

· SBM option and collaboration agreement for a $1.6bn investment in THG Ingenuity, implying an enterprise value of $6.3bn for a 19.9% equity interest. THG Ingenuity comprises the Ingenuity platform IP and the Ingenuity operating trade and assets, which will be separated into a THG owned and controlled subsidiary capable of receiving the investment

MW's and the other unspeakable short have had their teams working overtime on here since the demerger news as they know they have to get out before a potential re rating 1st qtr 2025 trying to frighten PI's into selling to close out shorts. The Ingenuity cash hungry equation has now been removed as requested by most PI's for a long time. There's still almost £2 billion in annual sales with THG RemainCo and potential cash dividends on the way. MM will want RemainCo to do well as that's where the bulk of current revenue is coming from for Ingenuity at the moment. GLA and looking forward to 2025! Adyor!

SDX Energy going private off Aim for various stated reasons and getting the customary market goodbye. Marked down 60% today alone.

That is fast closing in on 100 companies in the last year, several of which in the last few weeks alone.

Why pay Aim or LSE fees when the market isn't working for your benefit and shorts, sharks, spread betting companies and MM's trolley your shares and don't give it back and then across the back you have a seemingly invisible regulator.

You want a solution. Dissolve or get rid of the FCA and or amalgamate or give all its work to a bolstered numbers and improved funded City of London Police. To be fair I've never quite understood why there has ever been the need for the FCA when you have the other also covering the same square mile.

Kidge - people all have different reasons for their decisions but it doesn’t surprise me to see that most want to stay with RemainCo. If nothing else because a lot of us have been invested for a decent amount of time and feel that the quicker way to recover some of the losses is through a company that is generating FCF without the constant capex for Ingenuity dragging us down. Personally, I have time to invest in NewCo and I do think it has potential but I can’t do it in a private company where Moulding has free rein to run amok.

Seems to be an awful lot of new faces turned up on here mostly saying they’re going to remain but is that on the instructions of some of the big boys ? I know who I have faith in on here a few of the balanced faces who have been consistently honest in there views.