London South East prides itself on its community spirit, and in order to keep the chat section problem free, we ask all members to follow these simple rules. In these rules, we refer to ourselves as "we", "us", "our". The user of the website is referred to as "you" and "your".
By posting on our share chat boards you are agreeing to the following:
The IP address of all posts is recorded to aid in enforcing these conditions. As a user you agree to any information you have entered being stored in a database. You agree that we have the right to remove, edit, move or close any topic or board at any time should we see fit. You agree that we have the right to remove any post without notice. You agree that we have the right to suspend your account without notice.
Please note some users may not behave properly and may post content that is misleading, untrue or offensive.
It is not possible for us to fully monitor all content all of the time but where we have actually received notice of any content that is potentially misleading, untrue, offensive, unlawful, infringes third party rights or is potentially in breach of these terms and conditions, then we will review such content, decide whether to remove it from this website and act accordingly.
Premium Members are members that have a premium subscription with London South East and have access to Premium Chat. You can subscribe here.
London South East does not endorse such members, and posts should not be construed as advice and represent the opinions of the authors, not those of London South East Ltd, or its affiliates.
Hi Misty, yes agreed it is overly complicated. I was referring to the EPSA related shares.
Good Afternoon. Well I'm still unclear but I think we are both right. I think the The Mezzanine Loan Facility is not price sensitive this is £ driven and number of shares issued is irrelevant as is the price and the EPSA is price sensitive ie as you said, the higher the price the more advantage to river and YA. I'm not reading it again ever! that is complicated and why? I might try to speak with YA next week if I can be bothered.
Waiting not always get rewards....YET, here is not only about waiting,it's more like BUYING in the current level that will come good...and further more I fully expecting it to be fairly quickly....as always DYOR,and IMHO.....GLA.
All things good comes to those who wait ;-)
MAY 29TH, 2020 NEWS
A surge in enquiries and sales of non-Covid 19 products is a pleasing sign that industry is starting the slow process of getting back to work and kickstarting economic growth.
The filtering of business employees and customers alike combined with increased operations of a number of industry sectors has increased the levels of enquiries and sales of non-Covid 19 products over the past two weeks. Contract awards for the supply of Metal Detectors, Explosive Detectors and Specialist Testing Equipment has shown that although this time has seen a real time downturn in operational processes there is still a need for security and safety equipment that Westminster can supply to its client database and beyond.
Westminster’s Product Portfolio is extensive and continually looking for new cutting edge technology to be added. The diversity of products on the portfolio give Westminster the option to offer a number of solutions to clients as opposed to a single manufacturers product line.
For further information on Westminster’s Product Portfolio please click
Had rivertit not ruined the rises. When will they be totally out.
Esduk, I really have to go out now but I will look tomorrow. I think from memory large parts of that are correct. But its the repayment thats a constant not the shares they sell. As long as the £ adds up they sell the number of shares accordingly. Matters not to them how many shares they need to sell to reach said £ monthly amount. I'll catch up tomorrow
ffs 'true' not 'too'.
To be clear, I am not a fan of the financing arrangement which is definitely weighted in their favour (as they always are). I am also not saying that they care a lot about the long term direction of the SP (I wrote something about some limited incentives following the original RNS - there is a gainshare mechanism above 13-14p).
But I am saying that they will not always sell at the start of a month, and don't even need to sell their max quota (or any at all) in a given month if it means they lose money, as explained below. Given the terms are stacked in their favour they would need to be pretty dumb / unlucky to lose money but I think it's still a possibility if they play it badly/don't time their sells strategically.
It's too they make money regardless of the shareprice. But they also make more money the higher the price they sell (regardless of what they pay to WSG).
Or are YA and Riverfort the first companies in existance to not care about maximising their profit?
No that is not my understanding. I will take another look but they will not be worried about share price. thats for certain
Good attempt at an analysis - could be right but therein lies the problem - is so fooking convoluted that even intelligent peeps can't quite work it out.
Maybe you could ask the FD to summarise !!
But IMO, the more complex, its stacked in favour of the funder.
I may dissect it over the w/e but as I'm soley here for KSA, its relevance is limited to me.
Hope you all have a good 2m barby - don't forget to take your own poo bags!!!
Misty it took me quick a few goes reading through the complex financing arrangement in the RNS to (hopefully) understand it. Based on my interpretation of the RNS and the selling behaviour to date they are not selling the shares and giving 90% of the proceeds to WSG. If they were I would agree with you that they wouldn't care about the price.
The money they pay WSG and the sales proceeds from their share sales are not based on the same calc. They have discretion over when they sell their shares (up to a maximum monthly level which I assume is linked to general trading volumes). They don't have discretion on the timing of their payments to WSG, these are monthly and according to a set formula.
They need to make sure that on average their sells are higher than 90% of the VWAP of the 10 lowest SP days in the preceding period in order to avoid losing money. It wouldn't make sense for them to sell their max quota of shares for a month on a day where the SP they received was under 90% of the VWAP for the 10 lowest SP days in the previous month. I'm not by any means saying that they are investors, but to make their margin they do need to act strategically. I know this is as clear as mud so feel free to have a read of the RNS and let me know if you interpret it differently.
Esduk- I'm really not sure price is important to them. They just sell more shares to get the money
They are resellers. No manufacture.
Margin on tech has always been pretty dire. You’d hope under the circumstances that there might be scope to improve.
Well, i really started something with my opinion Re profits. Really good to read some of your comments, most agreeing with mine. If the company cant improve its margine on some of the products they sell with demand outstripping supply, then it really will be time to sell out. I presume they buy all their produt lines in from manufacturers, am i right in thinking that, or do the manufacture as well?
Good clarity Ed’s, makes sense! Admittedly I have little understanding to how these outfits strive to offload their shares
Nice post Smithers.
Just wanted to clear up a few things on the Ya/Riverfort selling situation which I think is being slightly misrepresented here (unintentionally or otherwise).
We have three holdings RNS's: 29th Jan, 2nd April and 11th May. The first was the placing of the shares (7m each), the second two reflect them offloading 1.25m each in the April RNS and 1.55m each in the May RNS, leaving 2.82% each or 4.5m each. The idea that they sell every month at the start of the month isn't correct, they didn't do so in February or March. Yes they did sell at the start of the month in April and in the first half of the month in May but in each case they sold into volume as I think yrabs pointed out.
They pay WSG a sum each month equivalent to 90% of the volume weighted average of the 10 lowest SP days in that calendar month. It therefore makes sense for them to time their sells in the following months for the days on which the SP is higher rather than blindly selling all of their quota in the first few days. They have done very well for themselves over the first few months as we had low VWAPs and they then sold shares into the market on the back of news at much higher levels. In June they will want to sell at a higher level than 90% of the VWAP of the lowest 10 days in May. So they are unlikely to sell any if the SP is below 9p at the start of June. They are more likely to wait for volume/an increased SP around the time of the AGM announcement.
Complex I know but I'm relatively sure that I have the logic right.
KSA is the key Jimzi, we were both big advocates of that last year as soon as PF released spilled the beans.
Iran would've equally sparked a decent step up as well - probably not quite the £1 we all hoped Oman would've returned, but long term managed service contracts are the key to making this work. Unfortunately there are too many little big men clenching their fists and puffing their cheeks in office around the world at current.
Last years delve into the port sector was very clever IMO and will hopefully continue opening doors throughout other sectors within Ghana, and other port regions around the globe. Francaphone Africa is seemingly an area we are very capably equipped to make some progressive groundwork in, and with the Chinese buying up Africa at the moment like its a game of monopoly, the region is tipped to become an economic breeding ground in the not too distant future.
KSA is the future of the middle east development, with ambitions to surpass what the UAE have successfully done over the last 30 years, tourism and trade will sky rocket in this part of the world, and closely held links with the Royal family, British Gov & Military will bode well for our very own Sgt Major CEO - the credentials of our JV partner in KSA are quite unbelievable.
And as yrabs has just mentioned - what a delight we find ourselves in, a global pandemic in which a a sector of our business supplies equipment and kit for . . . global pandemics. I'm expecting high volumes of orders to be coming in left right and centre at the moment, the only risk would be whether PF and co. have managed to pull their fingers out in time to develop the business infrastructure to handle the increased volume in demand.
At best - we'l see a significant increase in rev. this year for the co. from the upturn in containers passing through the final 2 phases at Tema, and the sales of fever scanners, detection/sanitisation kits
At worst - the scanner kit revenue will offset any lost revenue from SL, and rev will remain largely the same (which isn't too shabby at all given the current climate and how the majority of stocks will be recording record losses). Come back and get on board Jimzi, if the only reason you fled was through fears of the aviation biz :'(
Will hopefully be attending a socially distanced AGM, and will be passing on all details and notes to the board as per tradition,
And on a leaving note, don't get your hopes up that Heathrows fancy new scanners came from Bumbly towers, theres ramping and then theres complete insanity. They'l have their logo on their site as a result of some sort of very small minor business years ago - all for marketing illusion purposes.
wsg normally go up on a wider market red day...… now it seems we don't go up on blue and red days.... AGM month next, Pete down the white rabbit shop [it will be open mid June] and we await the famous Hat trick that keeps us going until the pre xmas update......B
Sure Mike. If that turns out to be the case then great.
morning all... feisty board this morning. The fact is wsg sell pandemic gear and happen to be in a year where there is a pandemic.... if that doesn't turn the corner for them we are all doomed. It was a side show before but now this puts them in the shop window of blue chips...… I suspect this will not be a 1 year wonder either. This will also test all those logos on the wsg website who are supposed to be our key clients... so if Heathrow et al buy their gear else where then Pete is not doing his job properly. we wait for the pre agm statement it has to be a cracker. B
You must be delighted that we are now profit making, with record Q1 sales? Let's hope it continues, and 2020 year is another year of double digit Sales revenue growth and the first profit making year for some time.