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We have a holding in this and we tend to buy when things are low. So we will add, but is it at a low? very difficult to understand the position. What we have read in the newspapers is that this Fund is fine. (Sat Scottish Daily Mail we think). So we will keep a close watch on this one. While adding to the FFWD which has gone up to under just 8p to buy with a NAV of 12p
What concerns me is the valuation given
to shares being transferred into WPCT from
the other funds to private liquidity.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-7165405/ALEX-BRUMMER-Like-Neil-Woodford-investors-feel-utterly-betrayed.html
The independent NAV last Thursday devalued WPCT another 3% down and there is not another independent valuation for six months - so do not trust the NAV and there will be no guide for months.
Bruce;
IH =
Industrial Heat Industrials 6.32%
Industrial Heat A1 Pref Industrials 2.78%
IE 9.1% of the portfolio
And just as you don't recognise it, some don't recognise it's value either.
Just saying.
4 million shares today; interesting to say the least.
What is IH don't recognise it. Surely some of the non quoted stock will be I'm possible to liquidate at this time and buyers will be selective?
Bear dozer I think you’re right but I’d go further
And suggest Bruce and Hmmm are the same person.
Hmmm :”Regarding the Woodford fund holdings - up until very recently Woodford was pretty unique in the fact that he listed publicly the full positions in his fund ”
Well that’s all fine and dandy but it’s NOW we want
full transparency to see if he’s selling off the family jewels.
Aren't you a wonderful human being accusing another poster of being financially illiterate - wasn't it the so-called financially literate who cost the rest of us £trillions? And "pretty unique" is an interesting phrase - you must be American!Would you also say "pretty pregnant" or "pretty dead"? You probably would.
Hmmm this is the final time I’m going to correct
what you attribute to me which I have not said as the posts are
Clear for all to read . You state I suggest the shares are worthless,when what I said is
“Hargreaves Lansdown has recommended
that all the funds be liquidated.. you now take
you chance whether you’ll get a better return from a
firesale than on today’s market.”
I should add that it looks like a tough ask to justify the valuations of IH and to a lesser extent BAI.
Man of leisure - nope I wouldn’t expect Woodford to take on the unlisted positions - I thought that was reasonably clear from my post - it would be a nice touch though.
As for your understanding of Fund Accounting I can’t be bothered to explain it - you’re clearly financially illiterate.
Regarding the Woodford fund holdings - up until very recently Woodford was pretty unique in the fact that he listed publicly the full positions in his fund - in fact he has been criticised for being so transparent. Rightly so, with hindsight as I think it has contributed to his downfall - providing the likes of TW with the ammunition to do a running commentary on his failures and the shortest have been having a field day betting against half his portfolio.
The jury is out on Woodford, Link and others about how far the rules have been bent but for the moment it’s clear his career is done. WPCT is a different matter - we will surely see some brutal revaluations in the coming weeks - forced by the WEIF redemption pressure but the portfolio is clearly not worthless as you suggest.
I just checked HL for the fund components ,Bruce .. sadly
they have been removed . So I guess the investments in Kier
And PurpleBricks reported in the annual report
May not exist any more? As you have such faith in the
Annual reports info you can enlighten us ?
Bruce : if you read my post you will see that I corrected
the name I quoted from the Daily Mail .. no intention
to deceive I assure you. Unlike you who said that
I said Woodfords advisers OWNED the stock , when what
I said was that Woodford advisers owned the COMPANIES
In which Woodford invested . .. now that’s worth
investigating.
Who this James Burton. He seems to be a famous American guittarist. What does he know about Woodford
If you are going to post here please try a little harder to get it right. Firstly all the holdings in the fund are specified in the annual report. The top 10 holdings often shown are worth 55% of the total.
You mentioned James Brummer who does exist and made apposite comments and now you have changed him to James Burton
You accuse an unknown person of being nieve (sic) do you mean naive and then state the advisor owns the stocks: it is the trustees who own the stocks. Think you need to gen up on investment trust law a little bit.
If I was a professor you would have scored delta minus for your efforts. Could do better.
You did. And kefi in Saudi as well
Hmmm I think you are nieve in suggesting Woodford removes
some of the “suspect “ holdings from the fund .. surely ALL the holdings
are suspect .. especially where the companies are actually
owned by the fund advisers! Anyway you can’t tell what’s
suspect as he doesn’t list all the companies he’s invested in.
I meant James Burton in the Mail
Hmmm and Bruce : I suggest you read the
article by James Brummer in today’s Mail.
Fees are not accumulated and then paid out of profits
rather are paid like wages in a loss making company.
Your argument ,without stating any source ,that the
fees are paid quarterly or yearly as opposed
To daily doesn’t wash. Hargreaves Lansdown has recommended
that all the funds be liquidated.. you now take
you chance whether you’ll get a better return from a
firesale than on today’s market.
Manofleisure - er... you think he gets a cheque for £100k every day and puts it in the bank ?
For anyone who's interested (which I doubt will be ManO) - the fees in his funds will be accrued on a daily basis in calculating the NAVs but will only be paid over to the Fund Manager periodically - probably quarterly but maybe annually. At this point the fees will be earned by the business and will pay the salaries and other costs of the business. Woodford will probably only get his big cheque annually.
Having said that I wouldn't expect him to be adding to his holdings any time soon - in the current climate !
What would be 'nice' would be if he were to take a couple of the more suspect unlisted positions (IH for example) out of the fund on his own account - at the NAV valuation of course. Would be a popular move, instantly increase confidence in the NAV and go some of the way to appease the masses. Unlikely though....
Bruce : the fund fact sheet says he takes out .19% of the
fund value monthly. As the fund components are unquoted and
difficult to value he just makes an audited guess
But the money still goes into his account. If eventual IPO
shows the valuation were shit he still keeps the money.
He won’t show where the money is invested only the
top 10 “in the investors interest. This fund is buying
illiquid assets from his locked fund .. I guess that’s also
in the shareholders interest ... not .this fund is in Woodford
interest not yours.
The fees hardly come out of capital direct. That's not how it works at all. They will be a liability in the p and l.
Hmmm : if all of Woodford ‘s assets are invested
in his funds and he’s taking 100k a day in fees
then where is his 1million buy order in the last two
weeks ? Is he waiting for the NAV discount to
go higher ?
thanks. wsg - been years but maybe this time they get their act together