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Like your posts but disagree he point about tax deduction. If its contractual business travel the director/employee will reclaim the cost via an expense claim or claim the tax back via self assessment.
Bought some at 63p on the way down.
Would be double at £1.26.
Capital Gains allowance going down, so will sell before April 2023.
HSBC is dis-continuing the Jade program, but it is not clear whether the TEN concierge perk carries on. Depending on assets invested with HSBC, you are either a Private Bank, or Premier customer. I expect Private Bank customers will keep the concierge service, and Premier customers not.
I worked for a company, let's say X, the catering company we used to provide the staff canteen was company Y. Guess what, our CEO, of X, was also a director of Y.
Booking business travel is a gravy train.
I have seen companies having policies that insist you book through appointed agents.
They say this way they get bulk discount, but if you bought a ticket from the airline yourself,
it's way cheaper. When you dig a little, you find the director that forced the policy is also connected to the travel company.
What we want, is for these new TEN directors to be on the board of BP, etc. ,
and make all travel bookings go through TEN. A business class ticket for £2,000 normally,
would be quoted as £3,000 full price, but you get a corporate discount so it's only £2,400.
What a bargain. You get 100kg of luggage allowance, and caviar, if anybody asks awkward questions.
The flaw in the gravy train business model is, business travel is tax deductible,
whereas a concierge service user is spending his own money, with no tax deduction.
So why would they pay extra to book through TEN, if they can get the ticket cheaper by booking direct?
If TEN can handle cancellations and refunds, that's worth something, but I doubt they want to touch it with a barge pole.
Looks like the recent director changes at Ten might be the catalyst for the recent surge in price. https://www.marketscreener.com/quote/stock/TEN-LIFESTYLE-GROUP-PLC-38804818/news/Ten-Lifestyle-Group-plc-Announces-Director-Changes-43050673/#:~:text=Ten%20Lifestyle%20Group%20plc%20Announces%20Director%20Changes%2002%2F22%2F2023,and%20became%20Chief%20Proposition%20Officer%20in%20November%202022.
I hope you picked some up at 47p like I did, that would appear to have been the bottom. Seems a large shareholder in north america was unloading their holdings over the summer, that has now come to an end. combined with the earnings up press release of 23rd Nov has sent the shares upwards.
Looks like somebody set a stop-loss around 60p.
Or is it a bed and ISA?
It looks like, when the going is good, and people book restaurants, it shoots up to £1.20.
When people tighten their belts, so no bookings, TENG plummets.
What happened to Magrathea?
"The Magratheans went into hibernation, awaiting an economic recovery that could afford their services once more. Mostly everyone except Slartibartfast is seen to be in hibernation. Magrathea itself disappeared and its memory soon passed into the obscurity of legend."
If you believe their line, about catering to HNWIs, then you should accept
that these guys can afford to eat, while the rest queue for food banks.
If it does plunge to ~30p again, I'll have some.
The last time it crashed to about 29p.
I bought some, just for fun, and sold around 69p.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tory-fundraisers-concierge-firm-quintessentially-seeks-140m-sale-6mjjfj7zt
"Quintessentially, the concierge company founded by controversial Conservative Party co-chairman Ben Elliot to provide exclusive experiences for the wealthy, is set to be sold — with bosses hoping for a price as high as £140 million."
Maybe the activity will pique interest in the concierge field.
Vultures, come and circle.
Private equity, sniff away.
"which is why I picked up some TENG at 92 a couple of weeks ago, I think this is one to hold for 6 to 9 months."
Welcome to the club.
I think you have a rose tinted view of what they can do. I asked for a ticket for Sweat at the Donmar Warehouse.
It was declared sold out through normal channels, and the TEN people said they release held back tickets every Monday.
Followed by silence. Not even a final "nothing, nada, we tried." This is before the pandemic.
Let us say Donmar Warehouse had six tickets they reserved, I was not top six material for weeks.
I still have a few shares, so don't want to knock it too much.
If they really can get pink elephants and Limited Edition Ferraris, and charge handsomely for it, I am not going to complain.
Tried to get a table last week, for Tuesday. I gave TEN a chance, but I could have done it quicker by OpenTable.
Hi ICL1960, you said "we will fleece everybody to make a profit', I think if you substitute "we will supply an added value service to everybody, for which we make a profit" you will be closer to understanding what they do. It is not about 'free glass of champagne', it is about having the knowledge to assist customers. For example if someone wants to go to a top London Restaurant, which is fully booked for weeks ahead, the ten lifestyle specialist will be able to suggest another comparable restaurant nearby, perhaps even get you on the chef's table. They know about these because they have visited all of the top restaurants to check them out. If someone wants a top sports car, for which there is a 6 month factory lead time, they can probably get it earlier because they know all the brokers who deal with the speculators who pre-order high end cars a year ahead so they can re-sell them.. Same with other high demand items like wimbledon tickets. Sure you can chase around and do all the legwork yourself, but why bother , when they provide the service of doing it for you. Yes, they earn a commission, for providing a service that people want, nothing wrong with that. I hear that now the entertainment and travel world is opening up as covid blows out, that they are starting to re-hire all the staff laid off in 2020, which is why I picked up some TENG at 92 a couple of weeks ago, I think this is one to hold for 6 to 9 months. GLTA.
Commission!
"Whilst bookings are now back to 2019 levels, commission levels1 in the four month period are 30% above the levels of 2019, largely due to the impact of a change in mix led by more hotel bookings, and fewer lower margin flights.""1 Ten's revenue from its supplier base, such as hotels, airlines, and event promoters which sometimes pay commission to Ten constituted £5.5m (12% of Net Revenue), for the 2019 financial year (as reported in the 2019 Annual Report and Accounts)."I knew it, they get kickbacks when the members make a booking.It's easy to work out. Try booking a hotel direct with the hotel, on their website, to get the price,and then through TEN. Cancellation policy maybe different, though.They can sweeten the deal by a free glass of champagne with a meal.At least the business model is as expected. "We will fleece everybody to make a profit."Quite promising for a shareholder.
After a year of nothing to book, first day they have something to do.
Built an IT system and a team for the whole world, just when the whole world shut down.
They could quite easily move to a home working model.
Rent computing facilities.
With the right communications set up, overnight coverage could be done overseas.
The UK can cover Tokyo and Singapore, if you can find Japanese, Mandarin and Malay speakers
The growth engine video is just what you would expect, we will become TESCO and nail big concessions from everybody.
I have shares in TEN as well, so I don't want to bash it.
I had two months in China, thirty years ago, for £2,000 , not including getting there.
I had to work out you apply the visas in reverse, i.e. China first, then Mongolia, then Russia, then Poland.
They want to know they are not going to be stuck with you loitering, so they want to see that you have a ticket to leave as well. This means I am perfectly able to organise my own trips, without a "concierge".
Having said that, I witnessed a highly paid pigeon who did not understand that an electrically heated hot water cylinder has TWO heating elements. The bottom one died, which does happen, and can be swapped out by any plumber. He called Pimlico Plumbing, who charged him £500. All he had to do was to switch on the top element, to get hot water, and wait for a normal plumber, who will charge £200 tops.
I am therefore quite optimistic that Ten will have plenty of time poor "wealthy" people who think they provide a useful service. Generally, the HSBC Jade perks are worth around £100. Ten Private Membership is £29 per month, or £348 a year. If HSBC hands over rich muppets to Ten to exploit, AND pay £348 to TEN, HSBC deserves to go bankrupt.
I tried the online portal, before COVID-19, and the plane tickets are not cheaper. The available airline partners are limited as well. It just means other airlines don't want to play ball, and pay kickbacks.
I can just imagine the sales call to restaurants.
"TEN diners are not cheapskates who order Two course specials for £25, and don't order drinks. They are Shirley Bassey BIG SPENDERs"
"One glass of complimentary champagne will be amply rewarded by a big dinner bill."
No restaurant is going to keep one table for Ten, another for Quintessentially, and another for the concierge at the Dorchester. Forty years ago, the drill for theatres was they always keep a few seats unsold, until the last minute, in case there are last minute VIPs. This is why you queued for "Returned Tickets". They also happened to be the better seats. The maître d' of a restaurant makes a judgement call, depending on his experience. If TEN keeps sending dregs who order the house red, he will keep the table for some other concierge.
At £348 a year, it's riff raff time.
Sorry ICL - my post was reported....... and removed :D :O
I'm both a member of Ten and shareholder (through positive use of the service) - not under HSBC Jade but knowing the bad press around Quintessentially recently I probably wouldn't want to use a service associated with them.... RYANAIR?
I like to watch every announcement and it appears that these guys are lapping up and retaining contracts, not because they are cheap but because they are proving their value. The way they explained they pivoted through COVID on RNS/online videos speaks for itself.
I think the point here is - yes you can do all those things, on all those websites - but as a user - where can I do all of those things in one place, targeted at me?
They are very clear on their SR strategy - its only generally around 10% of their revenues, and ofcourse lower this year as people aren't travelling which they call out (I am assuming a lot of this commission is hotels/airlines than other). Watch the CEO's videos/other videos - they do not seek out a commission based model they drive value through a subscription model with the banks (i.e pay by request or account?) so I believe they get paid for doing "something" for the member. They engage with suppliers, build deep rooted relationships and help bring business from wealthy individuals - not try and take money from suppliers :/
coincedentally - they just released a video which sums their business model to a tee - labelled "Tens growth Engine"... I suggest you watch it - https://www.tenlifestylegroup.com/investors/
Thoughts?
"You clearly know nothing about Ten mate ??"
I'm all ears. Let's have some real low down.
Ten Lifestyle Group is like the EasyJet of concierge services.
You get free concierge service with HSBC Jade, which used to be with
https://www.quintessentially.com/
The Call centre girl sounded posh.
HSBC Jade switched to Ten Lifestyle Management Limited around 2018.
https://www.hsbc.co.uk/content/dam/hsbc/gb/pdf/jade-concierge.pdf
The Call Centre staff sounded like a New Zealand backpacker.
Despite all the talk of investing in IT, the customer experience is distinctly more TESCO than Harrods.
It is pretty obvious that TEN costs less than Quintessentially to HSBC Jade.
Apparently, TEN provides concierge service for COUTTS, too
https://concierge.coutts.com/product/coutts/homepage
The banks just want to reduce the cost of a FREE perk.
I have never had the Amex Centurion, which charges
Initiation Fee: $10,000.
Annual Fee: $5,000.
Maybe somebody who has the Centurion can tell us what a real concierge service is like.
At Smith & Wollensky
https://www.smithandwollensky.co.uk/
you get a free glass of champagne if you book through Ten.
Even if there are reserved tables, you are still competing with other concierge companies, as well as other members of Ten. Oh, and the real concierges in 5 star hotels.
Instead of one nice couple needing a table, there are now a thousand.
How is that nice IT computer going to help?
In terms of Sold Out shows, forget it.
For one show, they told me the theatre releases held back tickets on a Monday for that week.
I waited for six weeks, and not even an e-mail.
There is a phone App and an online portal
https://www.jade.hsbc.com/user/login
You can book things DIY.
More than likely, Ten will acquire more contracts, because they are cheaper.
This means it will have a bunch of wealthy people on its books.
With that, they should be able to leverage discounts, and get kickbacks, and make money that way.
Booking.com, OpenTable, Ticketmaster do the same sort of thing, of course.
Ten is more upmarket, and you can get through in fairly short waiting time by phone.
I suspect the contract they have with the banks is commission based.
I don't see HSBC handing rich customers over, just so Ten can make all the money.
E.g. HSBC pays Ten £100 per head, but gets 20% of gross profit in kickback from Ten, when the member books flights, restaurants, etc. I can see Russian businessmen eating at Claridge's , food is £500, but the drinks make it £20,000, including tips (~12.5%, Discretionary, say). If Ten gets 5% of the bill, that is £1,000 . HSBC (or Coutts) gets £200 at 20%. All this is just my speculation.
I have a few shares of TENG, just in case they succeed in fleecing the capitalist sheep/pigs.
Is anybody looking at this share? My read of the trading update from back in September:
- Not really hit by COVID that much, revenue about the same 2020 vs 2019
- £10m cash in the bank still
- One XL contract (>£5m / yr) launched end of H1 2020
- Trading at 1.5x revenue at the moment, but seems like revenue could double within the next year or two, and they are expecting to be profitable FY2020 so multiple should improve
- 4x increase in share price over next couple of years (2x revenue, 2x multiple?) feels not impossible?
- Seems unlikely to go to zero - lots of very long term contracts, which have weathered COVID so could survive most things?
Anyone else looking at this one want to share their thoughts?
Well done let’s see Over £1
time will tell
12:09:23 76.25 1,000,000 Unknown* 74.50 78.00 762.50k
"Director" recent buy
"11-Apr-1916:24:3360.25710,000 59.0061.50427.78kO"
Up 28p ~= 88.00 - 60.25
Profit £198,800 = 28p x 710,000
Well done, smug bar steward.
Nearly 1% of the shares. Above 3%, he/she would have to declare.
Hard to believe not an institution. Merian buying back in?
up
11-Apr-1916:24:3360.25710,000 59.0061.50427.78kO
The presentation from Ten Lifestyle Group delivered at the London Seminar on 13th March is available in our members area here: hTTps://www.sharesoc.org/members-area/
Ten Lifestyle are lined up to present at our London growth company seminar on Wednesday, which may be of interest to potential investors and current shareholders: https://www.sharesoc.org/events/sharesoc-growth-company-seminar-in-london-13-march-2019/